2019 Team

[Woodsie]

I really must watch a different game to everyone that says kelly would make a good 5/8???? Sure he'd be a good running 5/8 but walker was exactly that and everyone hated him in there
Can kelly organise attack??? Can he kick long? Can he get repeat sets when the pressure is on? Can he create an overlap for his wingers? Yeah he's a gun and hands on the ball could create but i just dont see him as a 5/8

That is why I said .... trial ... and we don't know the answers to some of your questions ..... but love to see him try ....

You say he would make a good running 5/8 ... I agree, he has the footwork to beat an opponent ..... but unlike Walker, he has a beautiful pass and can set up the player outside him, and rarely if ever have I seen him take a poor option ..... he reads what's in front of him very well .... can he kick long, .. most blokes kick a footy around since the u/6's, I am sure he is no different ... can he get a repeat set ... it's not rocket surgery .... I am sure he could do as well as most ..... love to see if he can ...

 

[manly al]

Has seemed to be a noticeable trend in recent seasons with quite a few N R L sides reverting to converted 5 / 8 "s and either from mainly previous full back positions or utility type players . Not many actual specialist 5 / 8 background type players . After Kelly "s improved form last season , maybe more suited for him to continue as a centre at Manly . A bit more room to utilize his smart footwork and line breaking ability . Still like the prospect of having a fully fit and willing Suli in the outside backs and i guess much will be determined with how Elgey goes as a contender for 5 / 8 as to where Suli may end up and if he can kick on well for next season . No doubt Walker could handle a 5 / 8 role again , Kelly could have a go there in the trials but again much attention will of course be on Elgey and what he can bring to the side to warrant his inclusion as a 6 .

 

[manly al]

Elgey obviously has potential. I see him like Keary a couple yrs ago. Des will improve his defense and I think he'll work well with DCE. Remember he spent all of 2016 on sideline with an acl injury. That was a big setback for him.
Kelly and Walker obvious centers. Hopefully we see Anderson, Funa and Hoppa at some stage. Forwards are as is but I'd so like to see a big hard head prop added.

Sipley could be a big improver as a prop and especially with a better fitness and endurance side to his game , Has a quite useful off load in him as well . Big enough and has the raw ability to make a more effective impact , Just maybe needs some hard regime off season training and some general experienced coaching encouragement to get him to a better level .

 

[mickqld]

Sipley could be a big improver as a prop and especially with a better fitness and endurance side to his game , Has a quite useful off load in him as well . Big enough and has the raw ability to make a more effective impact , Just maybe needs some hard regime off season training and some general experienced coaching encouragement to get him to a better level .

Agree. Those blokes Sipley Tanginoa Paseka AFB even Marty need our Mind Coach to teach thrm to push through the pain barrier and keep going. Giving up defensively at stages in games cost us so badly and they all need a stronger mindset to push theough thise fatigue zones.

 

[Holmsey]

If anyone other than a five-eight wears our 6 jersey this season we will be bottom 4.

 

[Woodsie]

If anyone other than a five-eight wears our 6 jersey this season we will be bottom 4.

Relax Turbo ..... don't believe for a minute Kelly will play 5/8 ... just musing that I would like to see how he goes there ....

 

[Holmsey]

Relax Turbo ..... don't believe for a minute Kelly will play 5/8 ... just musing that I would like to see how he goes there ....

I am relaxed, but what I am not relaxed about is the fact it is being suggested despite 2 seasons now where we have finished bottom without a 6. I am over finishing bottom 4 due to silly desicions by the coach

 

[Bearfax]

I am relaxed, but what I am not relaxed about is the fact it is being suggested despite 2 seasons now where we have finished bottom without a 6. I am over finishing bottom 4 due to silly desicions by the coach

Appreciate your sentiments there Holmsey. And you are quite right. 5/8 has been our Achilles Heel for the past couple of seasons. We need a player who knows how to direct play and I think Elgey probably has those qualities. Unless Des gets his way and brings over Foran, Elgey will be 5/8. The issue with Kelly is a 'what if' scenario ie: what if Elgey or DCE gets injured and then Cust gets injured. Metcalfe obviously is not seen yet as the man to fill in one of the first grade spots as he is not in the selected group. So what if no Elgey, no Cust, even no Fainu, who could play half. Not an entirely impossible scenario. What is being suggested is let Kelly at least in the trials have a go. See how he handles it. He may fail, and then nothing is lost. But then he may succeed!!!

 

[Sue]

I really must watch a different game to everyone that says kelly would make a good 5/8???? Sure he'd be a good running 5/8 but walker was exactly that and everyone hated him in there
Can kelly organise attack??? Can he kick long? Can he get repeat sets when the pressure is on? Can he create an overlap for his wingers? Yeah he's a gun and hands on the ball could create but i just dont see him as a 5/8

Agree totally

People do realise that Koroisau can’t kick surely.

The sides that have good kickers at 9 like Storm Canberra etc can handle a running only five eight if needed but we cannot!We went through a nightmare last year with the Super Coach playing with one kicker in the 13.
DCE has enough on his plate without being double teamed at the end of each set of six.

Really like Kelly as a centre but with no other kicking option it is a recipe for disaster. If you want Kelly at five eight then Fainu has to go to 9 and API to 14. Won’t happen yet.Ive coached a lot of junior footy and simple fact is most blokes ,even talented ones , have absolutely no idea how to kick at a good level if they have not done it before. Kicking a footy around the park is totally different to operating with a 100 kg edge second rower bearing down on you while trying to come up with a decent option.


Elgey has great kicking game. He will get the job. And to be honest everyone whinges about Elgey defence ! It ain’t Brian’s best suit either.

And the other small fact to condider is he hasn’t played five eight before.

 

[Holmsey]

Agree totally

People do realise that Koroisau can’t kick surely.

The sides that have good kickers at 9 like Storm Canberra etc can handle a running only five eight if needed but we cannot!We went through a nightmare last tear with one kicker in the 13.
DCE has enough on his plate without being double teamed at the end of each set of six.

Really like Kelly as a player but with no other kicking option it is a recipe for disaster. If you want Kelly at five right then Fainu has to go to 9 and API to 14. Won’t happen yet.

Elgey has great kicking game. He will get the job. And to be honest everyone whinges about Elgey defence ! It ain’t Brian’s best suit either.

And the is the other small fact he hasn’t played five eight before.

Agree, our spine is similar to the Warriors. A running fullback who can ball play (Tuivasa-sheck and Trbojevic), A running off the cuff halfback (Johnson and Cherry-Evans) and a speedy creative 9 (Luke and Koroisau) and the Warriors have Green to bring it all together. He is what Elgey needs to be, take the pressure off the others.

 

[Holmsey]

Appreciate your sentiments there Holmsey. And you are quite right. 5/8 has been our Achilles Heel for the past couple of seasons. We need a player who knows how to direct play and I think Elgey probably has those qualities. Unless Des gets his way and brings over Foran, Elgey will be 5/8. The issue with Kelly is a 'what if' scenario ie: what if Elgey or DCE gets injured and then Cust gets injured. Metcalfe obviously is not seen yet as the man to fill in one of the first grade spots as he is not in the selected group. So what if no Elgey, no Cust, even no Fainu, who could play half. Not an entirely impossible scenario. What is being suggested is let Kelly at least in the trials have a go. See how he handles it. He may fail, and then nothing is lost. But then he may succeed!!!

Then you play Sironen or Koroisau people who have experience in the halves. You don't play a centre in the halves. However I highly doubt we will lose all our halves to injury and if we do Sironen straight to 6.

 

[Bearfax]

Then you play Sironen or Koroisau people who have experience in the halves. You don't play a centre in the halves. However I highly doubt we will lose all our halves to injury and if we do Sironen straight to 6.

Cliff Lyons started his first grade career in the centres. Fulton often played centre at the beginning of his career when Manly had Ian Martin. Jamie Lyon played most of his career in the centre, but was an outstanding 5/8. The issue isn't about centres not making good 5/8s. Its that certain players have better ball playing skills, while others in the centre are just speedsters. T.T would probably be a fine 5/8 if his passing game improved. Lockyer became the best 5/8 around for a time after changing from full back. What you're looking for are players who can set up their outside men consistently, and what I've seen of Kelly suggests he would handle the role well. But its all conjecture because Elgey (or Foran) will be 5/8, and others coming through the ranks are ear marked for the role in future. If Kelly goes to the Titans, I'll be interested to see what position he plays

 

[Sue]

Cliff Lyons started his first grade career in the centres. Fulton often played centre at the beginning of his career when Manly had Ian Martin. Jamie Lyon played most of his career in the centre, but was an outstanding 5/8. The issue isn't about centres not making good 5/8s. Its that certain players have better ball playing skills, while others in the centre are just speedsters. T.T would probably be a fine 5/8 if his passing game improved. Lockyer became the best 5/8 around for a time after changing from full back. What you're looking for are players who can set up their outside men consistently, and what I've seen of Kelly suggests he would handle the role well. But its all conjecture because Elgey (or Foran) will be 5/8, and others coming through the ranks are ear marked for the role in future. If Kelly goes to the Titans, I'll be interested to see what position he plays

Bear Lyons , Fulton and Lockyer were all time greats who regularly kicked the football and could probably have played anywhere.Kelly is not remotely in their class and has never put boot to ball in any game I’ve seen either senior or junior up here .To play an untried bloke at 5/8 in a team with one recognised kicker is folly. I’m talking about Brian In the context of the makeup of our team and it just won’t work with Api in the team.
I think Fainu will unseat Api down the track as he has better all round game including a good long kick but until then I’m happy for Brian to continue his great play at centre.

And that’s the other issue. You take a good promising centre and play him out of position while at the same time weakening the centre position. Who plays centre ? Suli ? I hope not

 

[Holmsey]

Cliff Lyons started his first grade career in the centres. Fulton often played centre at the beginning of his career when Manly had Ian Martin. Jamie Lyon played most of his career in the centre, but was an outstanding 5/8. The issue isn't about centres not making good 5/8s. Its that certain players have better ball playing skills, while others in the centre are just speedsters. T.T would probably be a fine 5/8 if his passing game improved. Lockyer became the best 5/8 around for a time after changing from full back. What you're looking for are players who can set up their outside men consistently, and what I've seen of Kelly suggests he would handle the role well. But its all conjecture because Elgey (or Foran) will be 5/8, and others coming through the ranks are ear marked for the role in future. If Kelly goes to the Titans, I'll be interested to see what position he plays

If Kelly goes to the Titans he will play centre, pretty simple. Why can't we just be a normal league team and play a five-eight? There's no need to do experiments that are certain to fail. Club needs to start focusing on winning games as opposed to losing over and over.

 

[manly al]

Any conjecture regarding Kelly or other similar instance players being tried as 5 / 8 "s is mainl just being based on the premise that Elgey may not be able to cut it there for Manly . Best if he can toughen up a little bit as there will be plenty of traffic directed at him , no doubt that he has some good skills , fairly sharp and good support player but again just can not be inferior to even Green as a 6 as until the Manly defence tempo and standard can lift considerably , , including from who ever will be at 6 , more problems ahead . Again hopefully Elgey will be able to handle the role there , but if not and also if he is injured at any stage , who to replace him . Really can not see Hodko or Cust as suitable replacements and again that is where there may be not much alternative then but to look to guys like Walker or Kelly to fill the void . That is how i see it anyway .

 

[Woodsie]

Good Lord .... allI said was I'd like to see how Kelly goes at 5/8 .....

 

[Bearfax]

Bear Lyons , Fulton and Lockyer were all time greats who regularly kicked the football and could probably have played anywhere.Kelly is not remotely in their class and has never put boot to ball in any game I’ve seen either senior or junior up here .To play an untried bloke at 5/8 in a team with one recognised kicker is folly. I’m talking about Brian In the context of the makeup of our team and it just won’t work with Api in the team.
I think Fainu will unseat Api down the track as he has better all round game including a good long kick but until then I’m happy for Brian to continue his great play at centre.

And that’s the other issue. You take a good promising centre and play him out of position while at the same time weakening the centre position. Who plays centre ? Suli ? I hope not

I take your point about Lyon, Lyons and Fulton. But that's looking at them in retrospect. At 22 Lyons was almost unheard of and only became special when he moved to Manly aged 24. Lyon was a player with huge potential at 22 playing for Parramatta but nothing like he became when he played in England aged 23 and then came to Manly aged 25. Fulton was of course special from the start, but Martin was preferred ahead of him for much of his early career at Manly. As for kicking, Kelly hasn't been required to kick so we don't know what he can do. I think I read somewhere though that he was a goal kicker as a junior. Sure Kelly is no where the standard of those three...yet. We just don't know how far he will go. He's got the natural skills, the almost instinctive play that those three had. Who knows where it may lead him. But as I said fear not because he is well down the list of players identified for the 5/8 role at Manly.

Point needed to be said though, Walker does not have the instinctive play making Kelly has. That's why he's not a good 5/8 and the side is weakened. Kelly is a different sort of player more suited to the instinctive plays. As for the future Manly side, I think its a toss up as to where Albert Hopoate will play by seasons end. He'll probably start off on the wing, perhaps mid season. But don't be surprised if Tom T plays centre and Hoppa Jnr full back by 2020. Tom T has show just how dangerous he can be at centre in rep games. I'm sure Des has watched that. Hoppa is a full back and is in Manly's first grade squad for '19. He's not there to watch the daisies grow.

 

[Sue]

Good points .I think we both agree Brian is a wonderful talent. I just hope we get to see it unfold in the maroon and white

 

[rmd]

Good points .I think we both agree Brian is a wonderful talent. I just hope we get to see it unfold in the maroon and white

All the rumours about Kelly heading back to the Gold Coast can’t seriously be fiction. Des surely would have chatted to Mal Meninga and Fittler about Turbo in the centres and maybe that’s where Mal and Fittler see him in the future for both NSW and Australia. So if that’s the case it means potentially one thing...that Foran is a smoke screen for Hoppa coming back at fullback with his younger brother on the wing.

Turbo will not play fullback for NSW while Tedesco is there and his passing game (apart from the odd forward pass) is sublime. His defence at centre is much better than his positional play at fullback, which leads to defence lapses.

Inglis is on borrowed time and is injury prone, despite his brilliance and he is probably nearing retirement from rep football next year and Mitchell is a natural replacement for him. Dugan has burned so many bridges, so Turbo is the natural replacement with added experience and that’s what Mal and Fittler will want and maybe how Des sees him.

We can’t afford Foran this year but Hoppa Senior will be very excited about what’s happening at Manly and it may lead to Will coming back. I’d be very happy if it did.