wingers

[Paul Dumont]

I am 77 years of age and have followed Manly Sea eagles since I was young. I am extremely disappointed with their wingers not marking their opposition winger giving them clear passage to our try line I know the intent is to cut off the opposing, attack , however a simple pass beats a winger trying to come back to the wing. Many matches have been lost because of this. I wrote several years ago to Des Hasler, when he was our coach, Bob Fulton and the owners concerning this, however nothing has changed since.
The club has possible the best forward pack, the best half back, full back and the remainder of the team very good. I believe
good enough to win the grand final if the wingers defended on their wing as shown by beating the high flying Easts, Canberra and Eels. Even with the number of injuries the team should have made the top eight.
The field is 65 metres wide, consequently the 12 players with fullback as a second line have to cover 5.42 metres each.
.

 

[Dion Johnson]

I think it’s the way they are coached with the up and in defence, with Turbo there he slides and covers the attacking player.

Saying that I agree that our wingers are not up to scratch in 2020, hopefully we get some pace in a winger who breaks the odd tackle.

 

[Paul Dumont]

Does Scott Penn take any notice of the forum posts or are they just to make the supporters feel comfortable between them selves.
Surely Scott knows of this obvious problem. The coach must be instructed by Scott to rectify this problem or the team will continue to be one of the bottom teams. (2020 equal 12th out of 15 presently) How can we get him to do this?

 

[Chip and Chase]

Wingers have to follow what happens inside them. No point staying glued to your wing and letting the centre or extra man fullback stroll through the gap created when your centre gets dragged infield by short numbers or good ball playing. At least when the winger jams in it forces the attacker to make a decision and you have some chance of stopping the play. Sticking to your wing is going to achieve nothing when you are stripped for numbers - that just results in a try 100% of the time.

Criticising winger for coming off their wing is a bit rich when 9 times out of ten it's the inside men who are dragging everyone infield. I've seen Parker coming in to make tackles 20m infield. What is Jorge supposed to do in that situation ? leave a 20m gap for whoever fells like scoring to stroll through ? Look, sometimes it's lack of trust in the centre or poor communication that brings them infield when they don't need to, and those times are frustrating, but the vast majority of times it's just a numbers game. It's not just our wingers, pretty much all defences operate the same way. That's why wingers top the try scoring table every year

 

[maxta]

On the flip side, wingers aactually save more tries by coming in and closing down attacking raids than they concede...I think an average match will see 5-6 occasions a winger comes in to cut off an overlap and occasionally gets caught out with a cutout pass, but in the fast paced modern game, sometimes the decisions need to be made and also if the inside men like backrowers or centres make an inside decision, the winger MUST go with them.

 

[globaleagle]

Wingers have to follow what happens inside them. No point staying glued to your wing and letting the centre or extra man fullback stroll through the gap created when your centre gets dragged infield by short numbers or good ball playing. At least when the winger jams in it forces the attacker to make a decision and you have some chance of stopping the play. Sticking to your wing is going to achieve nothing when you are stripped for numbers - that just results in a try 100% of the time.

Criticising winger for coming off their wing is a bit rich when 9 times out of ten it's the inside men who are dragging everyone infield. I've seen Parker coming in to make tackles 20m infield. What is Jorge supposed to do in that situation ? leave a 20m gap for whoever fells like scoring to stroll through ? Look, sometimes it's lack of trust in the centre or poor communication that brings them infield when they don't need to, and those times are frustrating, but the vast majority of times it's just a numbers game. It's not just our wingers, pretty much all defences operate the same way. That's why wingers top the try scoring table every year

Smarter footy heads than mine abound but it seems that if 'everyone' pushes in then the pressure has to be put on the 5/8th or halfback.
It seems too often that everyone has pushed in, the opposition playmaker is under no pressure so he has time to look, see everyone in, and just kick over the top to his winger/centre.

 

[Fibro Eagle]

Most teams defend the way Manly do
Its just some teams do it better , With outside backs jamming in the players inside then need to cover if it gets outside the winger ,Tommy was doing this early in year when everybody was raving about how better defensively he was , DCE And the back rowers cover a lot too but not as effective as one would like , But some wingers have speed to burn and it’s shut the gate , All teams will score at least one of these tries a game it’s about stopping the rest
Get it right it works well , Get it wrong and it looks terrible

 

[The Wheel]

I simply don’t our outside men have the pace to adjust once the ball gets on the outside of the defense.

Lack of pace and maybe a bit of commitment or desperation are the issue rather than the structure

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

I am 77 years of age and have followed Manly Sea eagles since I was young. I am extremely disappointed with their wingers not marking their opposition winger giving them clear passage to our try line I know the intent is to cut off the opposing, attack , however a simple pass beats a winger trying to come back to the wing. Many matches have been lost because of this. I wrote several years ago to Des Hasler, when he was our coach, Bob Fulton and the owners concerning this, however nothing has changed since.
The club has possible the best forward pack, the best half back, full back and the remainder of the team very good. I believe
good enough to win the grand final if the wingers defended on their wing as shown by beating the high flying Easts, Canberra and Eels. Even with the number of injuries the team should have made the top eight.
The field is 65 metres wide, consequently the 12 players with fullback as a second line have to cover 5.42 metres each.
.

77, good work mate , great to see you onboard with us!!

#GoManly

 

[Woodsie]

@Paul Dumont ... G'day mate ... I don't think it as simple as you portrait .... in defence, the winger is part of a backline .... he needs to work in concert with his centre, who in turn, needs to work in concert with the bloke inside him .. if the 3rd or 4th bloke in don't number up correctly, and our 4th in takes their 5th in ... all outside him have to follow suit, until it gets to the winger ... who usually has a choice of staying out on his opposing winger, and looking like a goose, or attempt to go up quick with his centre and cut it off ... and still ending up looking like a goose ...

All teams, including Manly, spend countless hours running training plays for no other purpose than to get numbers to expose the oppositions outside defence ... if you watch any game ... there are countless tries scored in exactly the same way as you describe as against Manly ...

If you also look at the top try scorers this year you will also see that the top scorers are dominated by wingers who have combined to score nearly 250 tries ... and not all of them against us ... and most of them without a hand laid on them ..

Having said that, we can be better, but what compounds our problem, is when we don't have specialist centres in defence, or put a specialist centre like Parker on the wing outside a 2nd rower GoJetski ...

I think we just don't number up correctly or quickly enough from the ruck ...

PS ... However, as on old outside back ... I will always blame the dopey Mungo forwards ..

 

[maxta]

I simply don’t our outside men have the pace to adjust once the ball gets on the outside of the defense.

Lack of pace and maybe a bit of commitment or desperation are the issue rather than the structure

Pretty right there...a few various reasons that make this work or sometimes not...
A huge factor also is confidence, when everyone is 100% committed to the decision and the best defences will shut down plays as there is no hesitation...it's that split second that will ultimately save, or let in a try....at the moment witth Manly so down on belief, often will look confused and not commit either way, which makes the tries look easy and the decision to come in will look wrong, more due to the fact the wingers are in 2 minds....having a bloke like Brett Stewart or Slater behind the team yapping all day, is another key reason the frontline can appear more on the same page and in control...

 

[Scorpio]

Does Scott Penn take any notice of the forum posts or are they just to make the supporters feel comfortable between them selves.
Surely Scott knows of this obvious problem. The coach must be instructed by Scott to rectify this problem or the team will continue to be one of the bottom teams. (2020 equal 12th out of 15 presently) How can we get him to do this?

I am going to safely guess that would end badly.

No one needs the owner to tell a 2x premiership winning coach how to coach a team.

 

[Chip and Chase]

Does Scott Penn take any notice of the forum posts or are they just to make the supporters feel comfortable between them selves.
Surely Scott knows of this obvious problem. The coach must be instructed by Scott to rectify this problem or the team will continue to be one of the bottom teams. (2020 equal 12th out of 15 presently) How can we get him to do this?

By the way Scott Penn does post here - his username is @globaleagle - appropriate because he is taking the Manly vision worldwide, starting in NY. He pretends to be one of the punters but don't let that fool you, make sure he gets in Des's ear about the defence.

 

[The Indian]

I simply don’t our outside men have the pace to adjust once the ball gets on the outside of the defense.

Lack of pace and maybe a bit of commitment or desperation are the issue rather than the structure

I think this is it too. Our chronic lack of pace amplifies all the issues. You'll sometimes see the Storm wingers rush in and get outflanked BUT coming across in behind them are the centre and 2nd rowers sliding across behind in anticipation and picking up the slack and minimising the damage. and conversely when we setup a half break for our wingers Jorge or Funa for example they don't have the pace to turn a half gap into a clear line break and the move fizzles out. Speed kills and we have none of it.

Our lack of impact on both sides of the ball from our wingers to me is our biggest positional weakness of the many we have this year. Assuming Ton is back nominally and fullback is covered ( yes I know ).

 

[The Indian]

I think this is it too. Our chronic lack of pace amplifies all the issues. You'll sometimes see the Storm wingers rush in and get outflanked BUT coming across in behind them are the centre and 2nd rowers sliding across behind in anticipation and picking up the slack and minimising the damage. and conversely when we setup a half break for our wingers Jorge or Funa for example they don't have the pace to turn a half gap into a clear line break and the move fizzles out. Speed kills and we have none of it.

Our lack of impact on both sides of the ball from our wingers to me is our biggest positional weakness of the many we have this year. Assuming Ton is back nominally and fullback is covered ( yes I know ).

Hooker and No 14 on the bench a huge weakness too - no arguments - but to me our Wingers are so far off the pace it's laughable.

 

[ricardo]

When I used to play fullback it went like this:

If the ball was on the left side of the field the left winger would stay up and the right winger would drop back so I would cover the left half of the field and the right winger the right. In essence two full backs.

The line marks up like we all know how to and it's all good. Simple system and everyone knows their job.

Compressed, zonal defence is more complex, difficult to get right and therefore easier to stuff up. It works, but as we see with Tafua every fkn game there's a try on offer if the attacking team run it wide.

Simples.

Great post Mr 77. I don't think their has been a better analysis than yours.

 

[Waz13]

Another easy way to think of it is the attack these days essentially have an extra person in the FB coming into the line to create the extra number. The defending fb drifts with the ball behind the line not up in it. In short it’s not as easy as just staying on your man on the wing. Defensive reads need to be made to stop inside men going through. That aside wing is a position we need to improve - hopefully with AJ as a start.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

Another easy way to think of it is the attack these days essentially have an extra person in the FB coming into the line to create the extra number. The defending fb drifts with the ball behind the line not up in it. In short it’s not as easy as just staying on your man on the wing. Defensive reads need to be made to stop inside men going through. That aside wing is a position we need to improve - hopefully with AJ as a start.

Slowfua out, Johnson in... a great start I’d say

 

[Rynostradamus]

Pick 17 men capable of making a one on one shot on their opposite number or whoever runs at them. I agree with what was said about trust. You have to trust the players around you to make their tackles. Otherwise players leave their man and zone to help out and there will always be a try scored. Up and in defence inside your own red zone is a joke. Time to dig in on the line and whack em.

 

[Paul Dumont]

Wingers have to follow what happens inside them. No point staying glued to your wing and letting the centre or extra man fullback stroll through the gap created when your centre gets dragged infield by short numbers or good ball playing. At least when the winger jams in it forces the attacker to make a decision and you have some chance of stopping the play. Sticking to your wing is going to achieve nothing when you are stripped for numbers - that just results in a try 100% of the time.

Criticising winger for coming off their wing is a bit rich when 9 times out of ten it's the inside men who are dragging everyone infield. I've seen Parker coming in to make tackles 20m infield. What is Jorge supposed to do in that situation ? leave a 20m gap for whoever fells like scoring to stroll through ? Look, sometimes it's lack of trust in the centre or poor communication that brings them infield when they don't need to, and those times are frustrating, but the vast majority of times it's just a numbers game. It's not just our wingers, pretty much all defences operate the same way. That's why wingers top the try scoring table every year