Who brings the improvement in game tactics

[jbb/james]

Ive been getting the sarcasm button for thinking our spine influenced outcomes in most other areas so i started my own thread

Injuries aside, manly did not have the patience, kicking game, structure, or self control to put themselves in enough games last season

Tommy and dylan add spark and legitimate gamebreakers and the addition of some wingers helps in other ways

DCE , Foran, cust , croker and schuster are in positions that have responabilities toward essential roles but none of them other than DCE seem cemented yet in what position they will play.

Cust seems better with the ball than croker but i suspect croker has better kicking skills. Both defend well so they should be rewarded for that. You would think we need a lot more from hooker than the stop gaps can contribute . Someone else will have to add what these guys cant until an established 9 adds some flair, kicking and expolosiveness

Foran adds a short kicking game and takes the ball to the line to do so making his kick pretty good inside the 30 m but as many have said if we leave it to one kicker the opposition find it too predictable. And what if he is injured , where will he play and for how many minutes

Not sure on schuster , had some skills with ball in hand but doesnt look a natural kicker but more of a runner who draws defenders to him. He is big bodied so maybe he plays the nik kosef role starting , then easing foran/ cliffy type in after 20. I liked this method back then and still do but kosef had more experience and dce is generally pretty quiet in the first 20

So who manages the gameplan when a lot of these players are probably not going to play 80.

Dce positions himself poorly to kick seemingly to avoid collision. We have a pretty strong team on paper and you dont have to be an ironstine to realise i think dce can be underwhelming considering his salary, experience and standing in the game, and on this forum but

Manly needs a onfield brain as well as flair, pace , muscle and attitude. Someone to know when to slow the game down to avoid losing faster. We can not continue to have one plan of trying to outscore the opposition in the first 20 minute ambush and hope we can hold on by playing fast, poor ball control and relying on the forwards for field position. This was really bad last year

Is it too much to ask that we expect that brain to be the only permant member of the spine in the front line, our captain and most experienced player.

It just has to be this year or we are also rans unless tom plays 25 blinders and foran finds undetectable roids.

Please discuss . Its a serious footy question , If you want to idolise than i suggest this is not the thread for you. I know i am insistent on this topic but its a footy forum and i see this as our achilles heal. the chooks played cronk with 2 broken necks and one leg taped to his bottom lip in a GF because you need a brain on field. They knew it, Some people on here know it too

Or are we just cool accepting mediocrity on this forum . What should we expect from the roles they play as opposed to effort. Is it ok to not learn the trade bit by bit, year by year. From memory cronk was never a half and had waaay less skills but he worked on becoming the player the team , state and country needed. Keary was half the player he was until cronk got there.

Dce is a freakish talent yes but maybe he needs to employ cronk as his number 7 coach and maybe he would have if he ever had to play for a contract. Just my opinion

 

[Will on the hill]

Unfortunately it all comes down to Turbo. In the last 2 years when Tom plays we are 14W and 5L. When Tom is missing we are 8W and 20L. If he stays fit we make the finals. If he doesn't we are fighting to avoid the spoon. We have a few more points of attack this year but Turbo is still the lynch pin.

 

[Will on the hill]

Ive been getting the sarcasm button for thinking our spine influenced outcomes in most other areas so i started my own thread

Injuries aside, manly did not have the patience, kicking game, structure, or self control to put themselves in enough games last season

Tommy and dylan add spark and legitimate gamebreakers and the addition of some wingers helps in other ways

DCE , Foran, cust , croker and schuster are in positions that have responabilities toward essential roles but none of them other than DCE seem cemented yet in what position they will play.

Cust seems better with the ball than croker but i suspect croker has better kicking skills. Both defend well so they should be rewarded for that. You would think we need a lot more from hooker than the stop gaps can contribute . Someone else will have to add what these guys cant until an established 9 adds some flair, kicking and expolosiveness

Foran adds a short kicking game and takes the ball to the line to do so making his kick pretty good inside the 30 m but as many have said if we leave it to one kicker the opposition find it too predictable. And what if he is injured , where will he play and for how many minutes

Not sure on schuster , had some skills with ball in hand but doesnt look a natural kicker but more of a runner who draws defenders to him. He is big bodied so maybe he plays the nik kosef role starting , then easing foran/ cliffy type in after 20. I liked this method back then and still do but kosef had more experience and dce is generally pretty quiet in the first 20

So who manages the gameplan when a lot of these players are probably not going to play 80.

Dce positions himself poorly to kick seemingly to avoid collision. We have a pretty strong team on paper and you dont have to be an ironstine to realise i think dce can be underwhelming considering his salary, experience and standing in the game, and on this forum but

Manly needs a onfield brain as well as flair, pace , muscle and attitude. Someone to know when to slow the game down to avoid losing faster. We can not continue to have one plan of trying to outscore the opposition in the first 20 minute ambush and hope we can hold on by playing fast, poor ball control and relying on the forwards for field position. This was really bad last year

Is it too much to ask that we expect that brain to be the only permant member of the spine in the front line, our captain and most experienced player.

It just has to be this year or we are also rans unless tom plays 25 blinders and foran finds undetectable roids.

Please discuss . Its a serious footy question , If you want to idolise than i suggest this is not the thread for you. I know i am insistent on this topic but its a footy forum and i see this as our achilles heal. the chooks played cronk with 2 broken necks and one leg taped to his bottom lip in a GF because you need a brain on field. They knew it, Some people on here know it too

Or are we just cool accepting mediocrity on this forum . What should we expect from the roles they play as opposed to effort. Is it ok to not learn the trade bit by bit, year by year. From memory cronk was never a half and had waaay less skills but he worked on becoming the player the team , state and country needed. Keary was half the player he was until cronk got there.

Dce is a freakish talent yes but maybe he needs to employ cronk as his number 7 coach and maybe he would have if he ever had to play for a contract. Just my opinion

Ive been getting the sarcasm button for thinking our spine influenced outcomes in most other areas so i started my own thread

Injuries aside, manly did not have the patience, kicking game, structure, or self control to put themselves in enough games last season

Tommy and dylan add spark and legitimate gamebreakers and the addition of some wingers helps in other ways

DCE , Foran, cust , croker and schuster are in positions that have responabilities toward essential roles but none of them other than DCE seem cemented yet in what position they will play.

Cust seems better with the ball than croker but i suspect croker has better kicking skills. Both defend well so they should be rewarded for that. You would think we need a lot more from hooker than the stop gaps can contribute . Someone else will have to add what these guys cant until an established 9 adds some flair, kicking and expolosiveness

Foran adds a short kicking game and takes the ball to the line to do so making his kick pretty good inside the 30 m but as many have said if we leave it to one kicker the opposition find it too predictable. And what if he is injured , where will he play and for how many minutes

Not sure on schuster , had some skills with ball in hand but doesnt look a natural kicker but more of a runner who draws defenders to him. He is big bodied so maybe he plays the nik kosef role starting , then easing foran/ cliffy type in after 20. I liked this method back then and still do but kosef had more experience and dce is generally pretty quiet in the first 20

So who manages the gameplan when a lot of these players are probably not going to play 80.

Dce positions himself poorly to kick seemingly to avoid collision. We have a pretty strong team on paper and you dont have to be an ironstine to realise i think dce can be underwhelming considering his salary, experience and standing in the game, and on this forum but

Manly needs a onfield brain as well as flair, pace , muscle and attitude. Someone to know when to slow the game down to avoid losing faster. We can not continue to have one plan of trying to outscore the opposition in the first 20 minute ambush and hope we can hold on by playing fast, poor ball control and relying on the forwards for field position. This was really bad last year

Is it too much to ask that we expect that brain to be the only permant member of the spine in the front line, our captain and most experienced player.

It just has to be this year or we are also rans unless tom plays 25 blinders and foran finds undetectable roids.

Please discuss . Its a serious footy question , If you want to idolise than i suggest this is not the thread for you. I know i am insistent on this topic but its a footy forum and i see this as our achilles heal. the chooks played cronk with 2 broken necks and one leg taped to his bottom lip in a GF because you need a brain on field. They knew it, Some people on here know it too

Or are we just cool accepting mediocrity on this forum . What should we expect from the roles they play as opposed to effort. Is it ok to not learn the trade bit by bit, year by year. From memory cronk was never a half and had waaay less skills but he worked on becoming the player the team , state and country needed. Keary was half the player he was until cronk got there.

Dce is a freakish talent yes but maybe he needs to employ cronk as his number 7 coach and maybe he would have if he ever had to play for a contract. Just my opinion

I believe DCE is better than you think he is, he suffered last year from trying to be a one man band. The rest of the spine tried hard but when you swap Fainu, Tommy and Walker for Levi, Elliot and Croker/Cust I reckon we were lucky to avoid our first spoon.

 

[pjayz]

There is no doubt that Foran has the brains you are looking for, while Schuster has the young body, strength, speed and flair. This is a major upgrade on last year. If we get 18 games out of Foran then we are in for a good year. If we don't, then we at least have a player in Schuster that will demand defensive attention which relieves DCE. Last year every team knew that they only had DCE to worry about, this year they won't be able to do that.

The nine is still a worry, we all know that. Cust may surprise us and star in that position; however, we can't bank on that, just like we can't bank on Fainu coming back with his superman outfit on after two years out to lift us to the title (different story in 2022).

For us to have a shot at the top four we will need Turbo and Foran playing 18+ games and they need to be playing into and during the finals. We will also need Cust (or a miracle buy yet to be announced) to have decent vision, a good quick, crsip pass, with a knack for running at opportune moments.

Schuster will be an 'X' factor, not to mention that Saab (and possibly Tuipulotu) will be an additional threat in attack and a kick-target which can vary DCE's options during the forth and fifth tackles. Remember, for an effective kicking game, not only do you need vision and timing, you also need options that the defence must worry about. With no Turbo, Walker, Fainu, not to mention a plethora of others through-out the year, DCE had very few weapons to draw upon, which is problematic.

You mention Cronk, but look at the supporting cast he had at both Melbourne and the Roosters - stars all over the park that he could run plays for - each of whom were a distraction for the defence. We have more of these weapons available to us this year (injuries permitting) which can only aid DCE's game and draw the attention of the opposition.

I agree that DCE has areas to improve on; he can fall into a 'chook with his head cut off' mode which can be an issue. He also doesn't run as often as he should, which would only help his play-making as it makes him less predictable.

 

[maxta]

I think Manly had a few key contributors to a poor 2020
Injuries definitely hurt, but more to your point I feel Manly did not adapt to the new faster game as well as others.
Rarely did Manly keep up with the tempo of the opposition teams and due to this, could not control the speed of opposition attack leading to fast play balls to exploit the middle, in turn leading to overlaps and pressure on both the edges and outside backs.
Flip the coin in attack and often very slow play balls led to sideways running, errors and lack of penetration and poor decisions from the playmakers, including the kicking game.
I think with the team Manly have they can match any team, if able to compete with the speed of the ruck, which was the key reason to a lacklustre 2020 along with injuries.

 

[sheridanstand78]

We are going to need Foran to manage games in the last quarter, our weakness over the last few years is lack of it and Foran can do this. It will allow DCE to play his natural game.

 

[double hoops]

I love the turtle. But I hate his unwillingness to play the team game when we need a no 7 and not two bloody number 6s.

I don't have a problem with each half pulling their weight, but when we pay top dollar for a dominant half we need a leader who takes responsibility, take ownership of his short comings, a dominant half who gets repeat sets and lead his team around the field, kicks goals and game manages.

He and the team can be so much better, if his focused was more on his game management, building pressure etc.

Just recently it was disappointing to hear cherry saying Foz can be the difference next year, as DCE hasn't had a dominant half playing next to him. He put Munster forward in the 2020 origin series as to how he plays better with a dominant half.

I don't like it, actually its Bull****. (He is deflecting from his own weakness areas of his game that need improvement, blaming others for his past poor performances and holding Foz out as the saviour for the future.

Turtle your the Captain mate, our leader, our half back, blaming others in the past for not being dominant enough, an excuse for your past poor performances is bull****. Then holding Foz out as the saviour again not what the leader does. What I haven't seen is our halfback being willing to complement the strengths of those around him and play the team game.

Munster done everything and won that series in origin. So what Cherry could stand back and watch as the superior half showed him how it's done.

Although his goal kicking improved 10 fold in origin.

Last year his words were Walker would do more game management and allow him to play an ad lib running eyes up footy that he wants to play.

DCE you are the MAN. Be the dominant half. Take charge of your team. Foz may help. But take ownership for your own ship son, Run when the team needs u to run. The BIG one (Be the bloody halfback and game manage when the team need U to game manage. Do the team thing.)

DCE sticking his hand up wanting the goal kicking, when he is the better kicker (again just dosen't want the responsibility) it is exactly how this so called leader can take charge.

 

[jbb/james]

I love the turtle. But I hate his unwillingness to play the team game when we need a no 7 and not two bloody number 6s.

I don't have a problem with each half pulling their weight, but when we pay top dollar for a dominant half we need a leader who takes responsibility, take ownership of his short comings, a dominant half who gets repeat sets and lead his team around the field, kicks goals and game manages.

He and the team can be so much better, if his focused was more on his game management, building pressure etc.

Just recently it was disappointing to hear cherry saying Foz can be the difference next year, as DCE hasn't had a dominant half playing next to him. He put Munster forward in the 2020 origin series as to how he plays better with a dominant half.

I don't like it, actually its Bull****. (He is deflecting from his own weakness areas of his game that need improvement, blaming others for his past poor performances and holding Foz out as the saviour for the future.

Turtle your the Captain mate, our leader, our half back, blaming others in the past for not being dominant enough, an excuse for your past poor performances is bull****. Then holding Foz out as the saviour again not what the leader does. What I haven't seen is our halfback being willing to complement the strengths of those around him and play the team game.

Munster done everything and won that series in origin. So what Cherry could stand back and watch as the superior half showed him how it's done.

Although his goal kicking improved 10 fold in origin.

Last year his words were Walker would do more game management and allow him to play an ad lib running eyes up footy that he wants to play.

DCE you are the MAN. Be the dominant half. Take charge of your team. Foz may help. But take ownership for your own ship son, Run when the team needs u to run. The BIG one (Be the bloody halfback and game manage when the team need U to game manage. Do the team thing.)

DCE sticking his hand up wanting the goal kicking, when he is the better kicker (again just dosen't want the responsibility) it is exactly how this so called leader can take charge.

100%.
His reluctance to be what the team needs is key. about 4 or 5 years ago i posted someone get him halfback for dummies, and quick. He just looks to comfortable playing second fiddle regardless of where it places the team

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Injuries aside, manly did not have the patience, kicking game, structure, or self control to put themselves in enough games last season

Injuries aside? Injuries (and suspension) was exactly why we lacked those things!
Foran should never have left, easy to apportion blame from a distance but probably all parties at fault to some extent.
Now he's back but has he still got it? My guess is yes, still has enough of what we need.
DCE will probably be the main beneficiary of it, but also Schuster, although he'll have to bide his time if he wants to be first grade 5/8.
I can't think of a better on-the-job education for a budding play-maker than sharing game time with the likes of Foz, DCE, Turbo and even Walker occasionally calling shots.
Equally important, this solid base of play-makers should ensure the tyro a strong side in which to develop without crushing pressure.

 

[Bring back the.... Biff?]

It will be Foran the Moran. Watch him carve up that left side with short side raids and then a kick back to the right for a flying saab

 

[Tragic Eagle]

The fact we relied so heavily on Turbo identified our lack of creativity elsewhere. DCE was trying too hard to run both sides of the field and Walker in mind is a centre and Croker and Cust offered little creativity. Hopefully with Schuster and Foran on deck that will change.

 

[Chip and Chase]

I'm looking forward to the list of excuses dwindling this season if Turbo stays fit, Foz/Shoe play well at 6 and Con makes a fist of 9. It should be something to behold as the greatest player in the world finally lifts off and reaches the stars.

 

[Will on the hill]

I love the turtle. But I hate his unwillingness to play the team game when we need a no 7 and not two bloody number 6s.

I don't have a problem with each half pulling their weight, but when we pay top dollar for a dominant half we need a leader who takes responsibility, take ownership of his short comings, a dominant half who gets repeat sets and lead his team around the field, kicks goals and game manages.

He and the team can be so much better, if his focused was more on his game management, building pressure etc.

Just recently it was disappointing to hear cherry saying Foz can be the difference next year, as DCE hasn't had a dominant half playing next to him. He put Munster forward in the 2020 origin series as to how he plays better with a dominant half.

I don't like it, actually its Bull****. (He is deflecting from his own weakness areas of his game that need improvement, blaming others for his past poor performances and holding Foz out as the saviour for the future.

Turtle your the Captain mate, our leader, our half back, blaming others in the past for not being dominant enough, an excuse for your past poor performances is bull****. Then holding Foz out as the saviour again not what the leader does. What I haven't seen is our halfback being willing to complement the strengths of those around him and play the team game.

Munster done everything and won that series in origin. So what Cherry could stand back and watch as the superior half showed him how it's done.

Although his goal kicking improved 10 fold in origin.

Last year his words were Walker would do more game management and allow him to play an ad lib running eyes up footy that he wants to play.

DCE you are the MAN. Be the dominant half. Take charge of your team. Foz may help. But take ownership for your own ship son, Run when the team needs u to run. The BIG one (Be the bloody halfback and game manage when the team need U to game manage. Do the team thing.)

DCE sticking his hand up wanting the goal kicking, when he is the better kicker (again just dosen't want the responsibility) it is exactly how this so called leader can take charge.

Consider the halves that went well last year, Hughes steered and Munster attacked, likewise with Cleary/Luai, Williams/Wighton, Reynolds/Walker. Every Batman needs a Robin.

 

[jbb/james]

Consider the halves that went well last year, Hughes steered and Munster attacked, likewise with Cleary/Luai, Williams/Wighton, Reynolds/Walker. Every Batman needs a Robin.

Maybe we need a batman

A lot is written about supporting roles. This does provide variety in attack and does strengthen the teams choices

However having a foil doesnt stop you from taking the ball to the line to kick or pass. Some of dce try assists look spectacular because he plays before the line which gives defenders more time to adjust. Thats why when they work they are the real deal. They are also risky and low percentage plays

It doesnt stop you from deciding to build pressure once the ball is in your hands. His decision making once he has the ball is not impacted by who is on the other side

Dce last year was a target on last tackle. On the few occasions he kicked on fourth the team benefitted but there seemed no communication so not as much as they could

If he took the ball from the hooker running instead of flat footed 10 m behind , whith blockers in front of him i suspect our kicks would be better, our field position would be better but he would have to nurse a few bumps. In my opinion he is not prepared to wear that.

By the way, wasnt there a bat girl. Im not serious, just pissing about with that one

 

[Dee Why Eagle]

Consider the halves that went well last year, Hughes steered and Munster attacked, likewise with Cleary/Luai, Williams/Wighton, Reynolds/Walker. Every Batman needs a Robin.

If I was Batman, Id choose Catwoman...
But I digress..

 

[jbb/james]

I'm looking forward to the list of excuses dwindling this season if Turbo stays fit, Foz/Shoe play well at 6 and Con makes a fist of 9. It should be something to behold as the greatest player in the world finally lifts off and reaches the stars.

The achives have plenty to draw on.
And the justification if those other fellas make us win and cherry backs up to score a few. Not sure what will be worse.

i might start calling him covid evans due to him social distancing himself from the oppositions defence

 

[jbb/james]

If I was Batman, Id choose Catwoman...
But I digress..

Would you en d up with a fur ball in your throat

 

[Tragic Eagle]

He just needs to play one side of the ruck and stop the confounded double back.

 

[Fibro Eagle]

DCE is the player he is , I don’t think he can change his game management he is about as good as it’s going to get , He needs another 1/2 that’s going to take the pressure of his game , As mentioned if Foran plays a lot of games or Schuster shows what he can do consistently with minimal errors . DCE should have a great season .
Thurston needed Morgan to finally deliver that premiership to the cows , DCE needs something similar
DCE played a great game in the origins cause of Munster
DCE worked with Johns a while back but it hindered his game .
DCE has Hasler as his coach , Monaghan is there too ,
Some players can run the whole show but many need a good partner in crime , DCE is the latter

 

[Woodsie]

Ive been getting the sarcasm button for thinking our spine influenced outcomes in most other areas so i started my own thread

Injuries aside, manly did not have the patience, kicking game, structure, or self control to put themselves in enough games last season

Tommy and dylan add spark and legitimate gamebreakers and the addition of some wingers helps in other ways

DCE , Foran, cust , croker and schuster are in positions that have responabilities toward essential roles but none of them other than DCE seem cemented yet in what position they will play.

Cust seems better with the ball than croker but i suspect croker has better kicking skills. Both defend well so they should be rewarded for that. You would think we need a lot more from hooker than the stop gaps can contribute . Someone else will have to add what these guys cant until an established 9 adds some flair, kicking and expolosiveness

Foran adds a short kicking game and takes the ball to the line to do so making his kick pretty good inside the 30 m but as many have said if we leave it to one kicker the opposition find it too predictable. And what if he is injured , where will he play and for how many minutes

Not sure on schuster , had some skills with ball in hand but doesnt look a natural kicker but more of a runner who draws defenders to him. He is big bodied so maybe he plays the nik kosef role starting , then easing foran/ cliffy type in after 20. I liked this method back then and still do but kosef had more experience and dce is generally pretty quiet in the first 20

So who manages the gameplan when a lot of these players are probably not going to play 80.

Dce positions himself poorly to kick seemingly to avoid collision. We have a pretty strong team on paper and you dont have to be an ironstine to realise i think dce can be underwhelming considering his salary, experience and standing in the game, and on this forum but

Manly needs a onfield brain as well as flair, pace , muscle and attitude. Someone to know when to slow the game down to avoid losing faster. We can not continue to have one plan of trying to outscore the opposition in the first 20 minute ambush and hope we can hold on by playing fast, poor ball control and relying on the forwards for field position. This was really bad last year

Is it too much to ask that we expect that brain to be the only permant member of the spine in the front line, our captain and most experienced player.

It just has to be this year or we are also rans unless tom plays 25 blinders and foran finds undetectable roids.

Please discuss . Its a serious footy question , If you want to idolise than i suggest this is not the thread for you. I know i am insistent on this topic but its a footy forum and i see this as our achilles heal. the chooks played cronk with 2 broken necks and one leg taped to his bottom lip in a GF because you need a brain on field. They knew it, Some people on here know it too

Or are we just cool accepting mediocrity on this forum . What should we expect from the roles they play as opposed to effort. Is it ok to not learn the trade bit by bit, year by year. From memory cronk was never a half and had waaay less skills but he worked on becoming the player the team , state and country needed. Keary was half the player he was until cronk got there.

Dce is a freakish talent yes but maybe he needs to employ cronk as his number 7 coach and maybe he would have if he ever had to play for a contract. Just my opinion

You raise an interesting point ... in the "apparent" absence of a thinking hooker and a dominant 5/8th, we really suffered last year from a lack of football smarts .. and I think this was also exasperated by a lack team and coaching patterns/tactics to take advantage, or even compete under the new rules ..

Hopefully, we have adjusted and changed our general play to the faster game ... and as others have said, Foran, Schuster and Cust can create more attacking options and 6th tackle variations ... with a fit Turbo, Walker, and a literal host of new and exciting outside backs such as Funa, Harper, Saab, Tupoluto and garrick ready to take advantage ..