What people don't seem to understand

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Journey Man
What people don't seem to understand

A lot of people are devastated that Kite & Kennedy may be out through injurry.

Gee Wizz, what's the worst that could happen? Their ommisions mean that we may stop winning? LoL. It's time to flesh some new blood. Bring out the feather duster, dust off the shelf, and spark some life, some ANYTHING into this team of induviduals.

I know that seems harsh, but come on...seriously.

I ask you some hypotheticals:-

1. If Brisbane lost 6-7 games on the trot, what do you think would happen in the media, with Brisbanes fans etc?
2. Parramatta lost 4 in a row last year, do you all recall what was going to happen if they lost the 5th game on the trot?
3. The Knights lost a HEAP in a row at the start of the year. Do you all know how close Hagan was to changing his career path, and the unrest it had with the players & management team?
4. Souths have gone through COUNTLESS coaches, through lack of success. Why do you think that is?

Look guys, can you please give me your opinions (without abuse if that's ok), of why it has become ok for a team to lose 6-7 games in a row, yet nobody seems dissapointed, nobody is asking questions, the media just accepts it, as though it is expected?

This is my point of view (personal opinion only). It has become our culture to lose, and our culture now accepts it, even supports it. I think that's pretty poor indeed. I personally think that is attributed to this:-

Other teams "appear to play for it's fans, each other, themselved obviously, and the club they play for - It is like ONE big team of fans/players/coaching staff. Other teams seems to have a real passion for putting their body on the line for each other.

I personally think my team of "induviduals" plays for money, and the social coudos being a football star brings to themselves (hence the huge drinking nights after a loss). I believe we follow a team that isn't there for its fans, but believes the fans are there for THEM in my opinion. It's as though the team are a team of induviduals, and wouldn't go into battle together.

Jason King HIMSELF said to me at the start of the year, that Manly have been for a long time a team of induviduals, who didn't think about each other. From the horses mouth guys.

Again, without degenerative discussion, can I please have your opinions on what I have just said?

I know I have said some pretty harsh stuff, but I welcome your feedback in regards to where you think I am wrong.
What people don't seem to understand

Nah Matt - just accept it because it has been engrained into our culture...much like The Rabbits.
What people don't seem to understand

You claim that our losing streak has "just been accepted". By who ??

Teams lose games, it happens. You wouldn't expect Brisbane (to use your example) to lose 6 or 7 in a row because they have a much better team than us. Given the standard of player we have at our disposal we have done well to hang in the 8 for this long. We had an exceptional start to the year and this raised a lot of peoples (fair weather fans) expectations.

You ask for a discussion, but I'm not sure what it is you are saying exactly. Less rhetoric and some actual suggestions would be helpful. Are you saying Des should be sacked ? Are you saying we should be dropping players (anyone in particular) ? Are you saying the players are not giving 100% ? Are you saying there is disharmony in the team ?

It's hard not to be harsh when you just post random comments in an attempt to "generate" some pointless discussion about nothing in particular.
What people don't seem to understand

Nah Matt - just accept it because it has been engrained into our culture...much like The Rabbits.

you taking the piss?

if we accepted losing then this forum wouldn't be full of people wanting to kick the crap out of the closest dog after each loss.
What people don't seem to understand

I dont break my remote control after every loss, does that mean I support losing?
What people don't seem to understand

I think that rather than accept loses I accepted that the team relied to heavily on BK, Beaver & Choc and that the SOO period hurt us big time. Other teams had players back up from SOO but we had 2 blokes in their early 30's doing it. Since the end of the rep period our form has improved and if you take out Monas shocker with the boot yesterday we could easily have had 3 from 3 since the bye. As for your point about individuals I think the fact that the team has been rebuilt a couple of times in the last few years is a big factor. Teams like Brisbane, Saint's the Cowboy's Newcastle ect have a fair section of players who have either played together as juniors or who have played together in first grade for a number of years. It is very difficult to manufacture team spirit in a short period of time.
What people don't seem to understand

I heard Warren Ryan comment on Wayne Bennett. He said that Bennett must be a very worried man! Bennett was upbeat with what he said but Ryan said that he didn't want to undermine the confidence of the players and was talking them up.

What I laugh about is that the same people that moan about our form are the ones who are on an absolute high when we win. It is like a roller coaster. Anyone who has played top level sport has learned resilience is an important component of a season. We have had some great wins, some shocking losses and a bit of in-between. Noone likes the losing but I will continue to turn up in the hope we would win. The bookies had Newcastle as specials last Sunday as we have basically been crap away from Brookie. Who is surprised we lost?
What people don't seem to understand

Realistically the Dogs and Roosters are much better teams than us - I can't see anyone calling for Stuart's or Folkes' heads and they have done very poorly. The Sharks are in freefall as are the Cowboys and Melbourne though tipped to do well are on the same number of points.

Got to get things in perspective. We were tipped to come last, have done much better but a combination of things haven't helped us. I hate losing but think there are better things ahead.
What people don't seem to understand

I accept that our team is not as good as the Broncos, Parramattas, Dragons etc of this comp. Thats why losing to them does not surprise me. We simply do not have the cattle to compete with them on a regular basis.

I see that my club is doing the best they can to make up ground on these teams but the fact of the matter is we simply are not as good as others teams at the moment and that includes Newcastle.

Just because I expect us to lose some games does not mean I am not upset that we lose. I am jumping up and down every game screaming at the tv letting profanities fly left right and centre.
What people don't seem to understand

What I laugh about is that the same people that moan about our form are the ones who are on an absolute high when we win.

thats Ryan :D
What people don't seem to understand

Ryan ...Ryan...Ryan...

I think you're going over the top here . Some of the comments you made in your original post are ridiculous ( in my opinion ). Sure the team have been playing ordinary of late , but it's easy to be critical from the comfort of your lounge chair or computer. I'm sure the players are trying their best to win matches for you & all the supporters , but sometimes that just doesn't happen. That's football. We've been in the top 8 all year & if we had a slice of luck ( Panthers , Cowboys ) , we could be placed 4th. You think its hard taking the losses from your lounge chair . Maybe you should spare a thought for myself & many other supporters that travel to games ( Penrith , Leichhardt , Newcastle , Cronulla , Canberra ). We feel the losses too . Only difference is while your posting your critical analysis of the game , we are still leaving the ground / travelling home. Supporters need to stick with their teams through the good times & the bad times . Even through the dark Northern Eagles days. Lets be thankful that we have our own team - Manly , playing at Brookvale Oval . Next year will be better with the addition of 2 more quality players.

You support Chelsea , don't you ?? They went through some tough times , but look at them now !!

ADVICE : Stay loyal to your team . Remember , before Max Delmege arrived , we were 48 hours from folding.

Hope to catch up with you Saturday week for the Warriors game. Hopefully , we'll be celebrating a victory.
What people don't seem to understand

That's just the thing guys, and is exactly what I'm saying:-

Why are we LUCKY to have a team that has almost folded?;
Why is it we "understand" that our team is not as good as Parramatta, Brisbane, Bulldogs, Roosters etc etc?;
Why is it when we lose, people say, well theres a positive - we weren't flogged?

It's exactly these thoughts guys that leads me to believe we may not like the fact that Manly have a losing culture, but it is accepted, as stated in my original thread.

I know I ride the highs & lows of this team, but frankly, there have been a decade of lows, with only a sprinkle of highs.

They say football is in cycles. Well, where's Manly's turn, and how long is a cycle?

I kid you not, we are in real trouble of missing the finals. The Roosters looked pretty good last weekend, and our form suggests we couldn't beat our way out of a wet paper bag with a diamond headed jack hammer.

To back up my argument, look at the Poll on this site, where 64 people have voted.

30% of you believe that we are kidding if we believe Manly can beat The Sharks. How's that for confidence.

By the way - the fact that I'm here is acknowledgment that I'm a loyal fan Craig. I have followed Manly for around 5-6 years, and not ONCE have they finished in the top 1/2 of the competition. Yet I DO go to a lot of the home games, I even travelled to Albion Park for christ sakes.
What people don't seem to understand

You do make some very valid points Ryan.

I'm sick of people using "We are lucky to have a team", or the old chestnut "Be happy, we are going better than last year".
What people don't seem to understand

I hate the line "we are lucky to have a team" but the fact remains Ryan we are not as good as the Broncos and Dragons of this comp. Should I be saying that we are??? I know that we are not as good and I accept that fact however I do not like it. What can I do as a fan to change this?

If we beat the Sharks I am sure your next thread will say how we have turned the corner and things are looking up :roll: Then if we beat the Warriors a week after beating the Sharks I am sure your wrist will be in grave danger of severe injury :D
What people don't seem to understand

[quote author=Ryan]
Nah Matt - just accept it because it has been engrained into our culture...much like The Rabbits.

you taking the piss?

if we accepted losing then this forum wouldn't be full of people wanting to kick the crap out of the closest dog after each loss.


Ryan?? we accept losing? sounds like some of that red and black blood has come to the surface mate!

we put up with losing at the Beagles, but what were we expecting with cross polination of the north sydney bear species,

we ar Manly again and losing is not an option! :evil: :evil:
What people don't seem to understand

You asked "How long is a cycle?". It depends on what you classify as success. Generally, the undeniable proof of success is a premiership. Teams can be very competitive and give their fans a lot of satisfaction without winning comps but I suggest to you that those fans are the ones that accept mediocrity (Sharks come to mind).

As an example, Brian Smith's ability is strongly questioned because, despite coaching good teams, he has never won a premiership.

On that basis, the cycle for Easts was 27 years (1975 - 2002). For Saints it is 26 years and counting (1979 - ?). For Parra it is 19 years and counting (1986 - ?). For Canterbury it was 9 years (1995-2004). For Cronulla it is eternity.

For the mighty Eagles it is 9 years and counting. A period that includes three years in a dark hole. It really aint that long. We have been crap rather than competitive for most of that time but things are changing. If it's alright to be happy to accept competitive without much hope of a premiership then the Sharks supporters must be jubilant.

Manly is alive today because we have always had winners around the club. These days, money is more of an issue than ever, and that has stalled our return to success. We are now on a path back to competitiveness first, and then a premiership. It might take a few years but I believe we will get there and it will be in shorter time than some of the so called successful teams/clubs mentioned above.

We are on our way because of a winning tradition and the people (including fans) that uphold that tradition. Norths are dead quite simply because they didn't have a winning tradition nor enough people that cared. They had a Florimo or a Fairleigh while we had a Arthurson, Fulton, Vautin, Thomson, Krilich, Randall, Peters, Toovey, Hasler and many others to care about getting us through.

I think we need to make the 8 to call this year a success but regardless of what happens this club is on the rise. It takes time to put the pieces of a puzzle together and there's no guarantee that when you finish a piece will not be missing.

You're not that old - there will be more than one Manly premiership for you to savour in your lifetime. Believe me, it's worth the wait!
What people don't seem to understand

Look, we were financially destitute after the Super League war, then we engaged in an ill fated merger with Norths. The club was only hanging on by its fingernails for survival, so I'll ignore your ridiculous question as to why are we "lucky" to have a team.

You cannot be a premiership force without money FULL STOP. We had none, and had to make do with some very pedestrian players. Like it or not, we are in a rebuilding phase. These things take time, if you think the club can turn around its fortunes in the space of two seasons than you need to visit the room full of mirrors my friend.

There is a big difference between being realistic as opposed to fatalistic. Take it as it is, we are not a premiership force at the moment, but ask yourself whether you truly believe we are in a better position than this time last year (and I'm not just talking ladder position here). Of course we are, and we are heading in the right direction. If we are having this same discussion in 2-3 years time than you can expound on your theories of losing culture all you like.

Of course we might struggle to make the 8, of course we might struggle to beat Cronulla (better Manly teams than this one have come away empty handed from Shark Park), of course we haven't got as good a team as Brisbane, Parra, Bulldogs etc etc. If you can't see why, and don't wish to accept it, than I'm afraid you are showing your ignorance.

I can guarantee that you will be sitting up the front of the bandwagon when our fortunes turn round and we are a premiership force, but don't get excited just yet, it'll take another 2 years I reckon.
What people don't seem to understand

ryan you asked for debate,so u cant complain about the reception this thread has stirred.
What people don't seem to understand

It's a very good debate too.

For mine we have to realise that our castle was trashed in 1999. Just as Rome was not built in a day, neither is a football club.

I'm encouraged by what I see as steady progression. Things may not happen as quickly as we all like, but everyone who has run a business knows that operations never match a business plan.

Ryan, perhaps you are guilty of assuming that the reaction to loss and mediocrity by the management of the club is mirrored by a certain demographic of supporters that don't often post here. It doesn't.

The people that glad-handle our losses are the type that watch pap like Backyard Blitz and get mawkish at the crass sentimentality of it. Feelgood stories are the opium of the masses and they have been spoon fed it with catchwords like "love" and "loyalty" in the form of characters like Monaghan and Hopoate.

I see little that makes me assume that is the attitude ALSO held by the club's management and coaching staff. And what little there is is also hopefully being worked on.

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