What’s worse?

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What’s worse?

  • Getting flogged from the get go, knowing the team is no chance

    Votes: 6 27.3%
  • Getting out to a lead, thinking the team is a chance, before capitulating

    Votes: 16 72.7%

  • Total voters
    22

LeonardCohen

Bencher
I feel very sad and disappointed, more so than usual, about the state of affairs at Manly. I got to thinking about why, given we’ve been in bigger holes before…and I think it’s because I got my hopes up…I believed we were a serious contender this year (however stupid that might seem now), and the Eels, Warriors, Raiders and now Dolphins games all had me believing at one point, before cruelly ripping the curtain down to reveal the same shortcomings once again.

I keep having my heart broken. Maybe it’s better when we get drummed from the kick off so there’s no temporary illusion. Thoughts…
 
Last edited:

Eagle 1

First Grader
I feel very sad and disappointed, more so than usual, about the state of affairs at Manly. I got to thinking about why, given we’ve been in bigger holes before…and I think it’s because I got my hopes up…I believed we were a serious contender this year (however stupid that might seem now), and the Eels, Warriors, Raiders and now Dolphins games all had me believing at one point, before gruelling ripping the curtain down to reveal the same shortcomings once again.

I keep having my heart broken. Maybe it’s better when we get drummed from the kick off so there’s no temporary illusion. Thoughts…
True, the penny dropped for me when we've led by 14 or more points against Parra, Raiders and Phins, and I may of missed someone else. And couldn't convert these into solid wins.
 

BOZO

Journey Man
Tipping Member
To The Victor go the spoils feathered friends
No is given any points for a Loss
No one celebrates Losing
Losing Hurts
And The more Passionate you are about your club the more you hurt after any Loss
1715318674768.png
 

Dion Johnson

Bencher
Premium Member
Tipping Member
I feel very sad and disappointed, more so than usual, about the state of affairs at Manly. I got to thinking about why, given we’ve been in bigger holes before…and I think it’s because I got my hopes up…I believed we were a serious contender this year (however stupid that might seem now), and the Eels, Warriors, Raiders and now Dolphins games all had me believing at one point, before cruelly ripping the curtain down to reveal the same shortcomings once again.

I keep having my heart broken. Maybe it’s better when we get drummed from the kick off so there’s no temporary illusion. Thoughts…
I would rather have a competitive team like there is now than getting a score put on against them.

The 30 man squad could do with some injection of talented youth, the club having Woods and Matterson as development players is somewhat of a concern, surely there are some younger hard working players that deserve a development deal.
 

Rocky

Bencher
Despite many on here bagging the sh#t out of Seibold, he has achieved one thing Des couldn't - beat some top 4 teams.

So is the team better? Well, the ceiling seems higher amongst the frustrating fade-outs and inconsistency.

They are madding team to follow but have been for years to be honest.
 

BOZO

Journey Man
Tipping Member
Despite many on here bagging the sh#t out of Seibold, he has achieved one thing Des couldn't - beat some top 4 teams.
When you compare Haslers achievements
Dont forget to compare our 40 to NIL Historic Grand Final Record Breaking win against the Storm
And this will put Seibolds achievements at Manly in complete Perspective feathered friend

1715321379331.png
 

Rocky

Bencher
When you compare Haslers achievements
Dont forget to compare our 40 to NIL Historic Grand Final Record Breaking win against the Storm
And this will put Seibolds achievements at Manly in complete Perspective feathered friend

View attachment 26985
Pretty obvious to everyone I was talking about the second stint of Hasler

But hey - if it gives you another chance to relieve the past, then go for it!
 

BOZO

Journey Man
Tipping Member
Pretty obvious to everyone I was talking about the second stint of Hasler

But hey - if it gives you another chance to relieve the past, then go for it!
You did mention achievements in your post and this is why Haslers past was mentioned

But as for Dessies second coming . He never came at all
and he got what all failing coaches get and that is the sack

As for Bagging the *** out of Seibold
No one Bags a Winner at Manly feathered friend
Manly is a very proud club with proud and passionate Manly people that hate losing
At Manly we have very high standards
1715322314490.png
 

bob dylan

First Grader
Premium Member
Tipping Member
Never thought we could be top 8 pre season, our roster is no better than those at the bottom of the comp.

Easy games against other non contenders from 2023 in Souths and Roosters didn't change my thinking.

Round 5 I have a planned trip to Sydney, Mrs Dylan just expects we are off the watch the game vs Penrith. It was a wet weekend in Sydney and we get up Saturday and she says " hope it's not raining this arvo" I say why, she replies I "don't want to get wet at the footy." She can't believe we aren't going.

But that afternoon against a Cleary less Panthers we turn it on, but with a lot of luck. Then the draw vs Warriors over there was a mighty effort in my mind. Ok maybe this is a top 8 side, they almost got me in. I didn't care about Dragons match it's a money making venture every year, cash in pocket at 13 plus.

Then the rot sets in with suspension and injury and a lack of leadership on field. An inability to close out games etc

I actually think if Jake missed origin selection he and Brooks and Haumole could lead this team to a few wins.

Anyway fingers crossed. I haven't given up. But I really don't like much about the club or the team these days

They have killed the Manly spirit twice, the day Glenn Stewart became a bunny and the day Toovey was sacked as coach. Killed it with a Penn knife to the heart.
 

BOZO

Journey Man
Tipping Member
They have killed the Manly spirit twice, the day Glenn Stewart became a bunny and the day Toovey was sacked as coach. Killed it with a Penn knife to the heart.
Our Manly Proud History has Proven Many times That the Manly spirit never dies feathered friend
It fades when we lose but it blazes brightly when we start Winning again
 

Fibro Eagle

Bencher
Premium Member
Tipping Member
I don't like either option
Manly are a frustrating team of late
I think there is a good team there winning more than they loose
 

Phobia

Member
I can't help but keep thinking that a fish rots from its head. The team has made the finals three times since Penn took full control. 2017 was thanks to Tom, Barrett was our coach FFS. 2019 was some Des and DCE magic, and clearly Des didn't have pressure on him that year, given Barrett nearly took that same team to a spoon the year prior. 2021 was Tom going absolute god mode and you can't reasonably expect him to do that again, and, unlike what many here like to think, Des and Bellamy being the only two coaches to immediately pick up on the 6 again exploits. I feel like Penn put pressure on Des in 2020 because of all of the media people hyping us up as "dark horses" as they have done this year, and in 2022.

The fact is, individual brilliance at times from Des (whether you like it or not, check the Rugby League Eye Test's 2021 review to see exactly why Des was absolutely genius that year), DCE and Turbo has obscured a management system that has only just become "stable" under Mestrov, an owner, who despite being based in New York and having literally no physical connection to the club itself half the time, clearly meddles with the team and it's direction, and a playing group and culture that has seemingly disintegrated since 2015, and was finally put to death in 2018.

If you think Seibold is playing Moneyball with player recruitment, then the club's coaching appointment's are straight up dumpster diving. Penn sacks Tooves for a season largely beyond his control, sets his fate, and yet he nearly makes the Top 8 by the end of it. I've heard internal rumours that he was sacked partly because Penn didn't like him on a personal level, and the same thing went for Des in 2022. I couldn't give a s*** about who Penn likes. I want us to win. He then proceeded to hire Barrett off the media talking him up (funny, how was Sheens was appointed to the Tigers, and why was Madge was sacked in 2022 again?). Barrett nearly gets a spoon, and despite him being a rubbish coach raises some important points about how massive of a cheap skate Penn and the club is. Not being able to afford desks is ridiculous, and points to other toxic elements within the club.

Then, he decides to hire Des, after he's been sacked by the Bulldogs and is embroiled in scandals. Accidental masterstroke by all accounts, and without a certain stabby bloke we likely would've made the finals three years in a row. Sure, Seibold has beaten Top 4 teams. But will we face them in the finals? Under Des that was nearly a certainty, and I'd prefer that any day over beating them in some regular season game and then missing the finals.

History has been rewritten about 2022 and I'm willing to fight for it. Tell me, when has Seibold's side beaten teams three weeks in a row? It hasn't at all, across all of last year and all of this year. We had a 4 win winning streak in 2022. We had several of those in 2021. Talk to someone who isn't a Manly supporter, and they'll tell you that they were scared to face us in 2022, until the pride jersey. We actually won consistently for a time there, and importantly, even without Turbo. We had some rubbish moments, every team has them, but we were on track for the finals, don't get it wrong at all.

Then the pride jersey. It isn't Des, or Seibold, or Barrett's responsibility, to fix a division among the players created by the club, play a player (Schuster) only because the club has spent so much money and time on him, or bring in your own equipment for training and admin because the NRL club won't. It's ridiculous that these coaches are blamed for some of these things. People can say "it's their side", but is it really? If you've got Penn staring you down from across the room, knowing that he doesn't like you, and that he can sack you, is that going to leave you entirely impartial in your judgement and thinking? Especially with Seibold also having his manager's concerns on his mind...

It seriously looks like we pick the cheapest coaching option available. Even our assistants, we went from Brad Arthur and Andrew Johns in 2013, to the old defensive coach from the Titans (what a record), and an attacking coach that the players said during the pride jersey aftermath, who "doesn't get involved enough".

Mestrov is doing a great job, but a pig with lipstick is still a pig. I can't help but feel his hands are tied behind is back. Do you think the issue of the revolving door of CEO's has gone? It can't disappear that easily, with the same upper management and board still here. It's likely appeared somewhere else, that I have no insight into. At least the Fulton's are gone, as are their vested interests, and their good friend Tartak.

I don't think Penn is actually capable of owning a footy club, unless he gets his hands off it. Half of these issues are his, and stem from his and the club's lack of direction.

And before you say Des is rubbish at the Titans, ask me, have the Titans ever done well? They're a poisoned chalice no matter who you are. Holbrook was a good coach, won the Super League, and you wouldn't be able to tell at the Titans. They're somehow managed worse than us.
 

The Who

Journey Man
There is nothing worse than blowing a big lead. We have done that four times this season. Just because we are located north of the harbour bridge should not mean we have to emulate the Bad News Bears!
The Canberra loss cut me to the quick, but last year's loss to the 'boys at Brookie when we conceded 18 points in the last few minutes hurt even more.
I'd much rather see our blokes totally outclassed than know they have snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.
 

Tomay

Bencher
Aligning with Blacktown and sacking tooves destroyed the identity of the club, which was the only thing we had going for us given the shoestring budget.
 

mave

First Grader
Premium Member
Tipping Member
I can't help but keep thinking that a fish rots from its head. The team has made the finals three times since Penn took full control. 2017 was thanks to Tom, Barrett was our coach FFS. 2019 was some Des and DCE magic, and clearly Des didn't have pressure on him that year, given Barrett nearly took that same team to a spoon the year prior. 2021 was Tom going absolute god mode and you can't reasonably expect him to do that again, and, unlike what many here like to think, Des and Bellamy being the only two coaches to immediately pick up on the 6 again exploits. I feel like Penn put pressure on Des in 2020 because of all of the media people hyping us up as "dark horses" as they have done this year, and in 2022.

The fact is, individual brilliance at times from Des (whether you like it or not, check the Rugby League Eye Test's 2021 review to see exactly why Des was absolutely genius that year), DCE and Turbo has obscured a management system that has only just become "stable" under Mestrov, an owner, who despite being based in New York and having literally no physical connection to the club itself half the time, clearly meddles with the team and it's direction, and a playing group and culture that has seemingly disintegrated since 2015, and was finally put to death in 2018.

If you think Seibold is playing Moneyball with player recruitment, then the club's coaching appointment's are straight up dumpster diving. Penn sacks Tooves for a season largely beyond his control, sets his fate, and yet he nearly makes the Top 8 by the end of it. I've heard internal rumours that he was sacked partly because Penn didn't like him on a personal level, and the same thing went for Des in 2022. I couldn't give a s*** about who Penn likes. I want us to win. He then proceeded to hire Barrett off the media talking him up (funny, how was Sheens was appointed to the Tigers, and why was Madge was sacked in 2022 again?). Barrett nearly gets a spoon, and despite him being a rubbish coach raises some important points about how massive of a cheap skate Penn and the club is. Not being able to afford desks is ridiculous, and points to other toxic elements within the club.

Then, he decides to hire Des, after he's been sacked by the Bulldogs and is embroiled in scandals. Accidental masterstroke by all accounts, and without a certain stabby bloke we likely would've made the finals three years in a row. Sure, Seibold has beaten Top 4 teams. But will we face them in the finals? Under Des that was nearly a certainty, and I'd prefer that any day over beating them in some regular season game and then missing the finals.

History has been rewritten about 2022 and I'm willing to fight for it. Tell me, when has Seibold's side beaten teams three weeks in a row? It hasn't at all, across all of last year and all of this year. We had a 4 win winning streak in 2022. We had several of those in 2021. Talk to someone who isn't a Manly supporter, and they'll tell you that they were scared to face us in 2022, until the pride jersey. We actually won consistently for a time there, and importantly, even without Turbo. We had some rubbish moments, every team has them, but we were on track for the finals, don't get it wrong at all.

Then the pride jersey. It isn't Des, or Seibold, or Barrett's responsibility, to fix a division among the players created by the club, play a player (Schuster) only because the club has spent so much money and time on him, or bring in your own equipment for training and admin because the NRL club won't. It's ridiculous that these coaches are blamed for some of these things. People can say "it's their side", but is it really? If you've got Penn staring you down from across the room, knowing that he doesn't like you, and that he can sack you, is that going to leave you entirely impartial in your judgement and thinking? Especially with Seibold also having his manager's concerns on his mind...

It seriously looks like we pick the cheapest coaching option available. Even our assistants, we went from Brad Arthur and Andrew Johns in 2013, to the old defensive coach from the Titans (what a record), and an attacking coach that the players said during the pride jersey aftermath, who "doesn't get involved enough".

Mestrov is doing a great job, but a pig with lipstick is still a pig. I can't help but feel his hands are tied behind is back. Do you think the issue of the revolving door of CEO's has gone? It can't disappear that easily, with the same upper management and board still here. It's likely appeared somewhere else, that I have no insight into. At least the Fulton's are gone, as are their vested interests, and their good friend Tartak.

I don't think Penn is actually capable of owning a footy club, unless he gets his hands off it. Half of these issues are his, and stem from his and the club's lack of direction.

And before you say Des is rubbish at the Titans, ask me, have the Titans ever done well? They're a poisoned chalice no matter who you are. Holbrook was a good coach, won the Super League, and you wouldn't be able to tell at the Titans. They're somehow managed worse than us.

You could have just said Penn is an A grade wanker, and saved a lot of words.
 

jbb/james

First Grader
Premium Member
Tipping Member
one of the distinctions one has to make on a fan forum is the on field footy content and the love of the club, players and loyalty to the brand

if you put your fair dinkum hat on and talk pure footy the team has holes

on field leadership and management, a team strategy , with focus and direction has been missing. improvement needs to come from the team doing basics right for long periods Together without letting down the team mantra

the win loss ratio over past 5 plus years suggests letting the players play what they see and not focus on % footy has been an epic failure. Move on or move them on

defence is attitude, and at times recently its looked rock solid and at times wafer thin. So that attitude fluctuates. You CAN NOT in team sport consistently waste other peoples toil and hard work with glory plays and for the team attitude to be hunky dory.

all teams and players make mistakes and good teams bond together to cover a mate but at bazball would wear thin

not only do we not have “game management” we actually pay handsomely for “game mismanagement“
 

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