We need a locally based NSW Cup team!

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40 nil

It's only a game ...
When can we return to having a locally based reserve grade (NSW Cup) team?

I'm sure such a move will help boost our NRL performances. Teams will train together & there will be more uniformity in defence structures etc. Also, I think young players will see it as a more direct route to NRL selection. It will become 'our team' again and will help attract bigger crowds to home games.

This year, there are 13 teams in the Knock Out Cup, including the Warriors & the Bears. Afaik, all NSW based NRL teams have local second teams except the Sharks (Jets) & Manly (Blacktown Workers). At least the Jets have some semblance of geographical proximity to the Shire (hopefully, this information is correct).

I know monetary constraints is one reason we don't have a local NSW Cup team. Are there also other reasons?
 

Shoe1

Journey Man
Newtown has pretty much zero geographic connection to Cronulla, but yeah it would be good to get our own reserve grade team, or at least grab norths.

Btw souths have norths I think.

Blacktown is a city of 300,000 people so theoretically it should be a good alliance, otherwise they go to Penrith or parra.
 

40 nil

It's only a game ...
Newtown has pretty much zero geographic connection to Cronulla, but yeah it would be good to get our own reserve grade team, or at least grab norths.

Btw souths have norths I think.
Newtown is much closer to Cronulla (22 km) than Blacktown is to Brookvale (44 km)

For 2023, the Rabbitohs & Bears are separate teams in in the Knock Out Cup. Here are all the teams

Panthers
Bears
Eels
Raiders
Warriors
Knights
Sea Eagles
Bulldogs
Jets
Rabbitohs
Magpies
Roosters
Dragons
 

Nike

Reserve Grader
Yeah it would be nice to have a Manly based NSW Cup team but I feel like you guys are missing the fact that a good percentage of our team is made up of Westfield Sports High imports, who are developed in systems we have minimal investment in due to the Blacktown agreement.

They used to just stack the Beacon Hill Bears with these kids and our comps suffered for it tbh, it's not an ideal situation but it's producing juniors for us one way or another.
 

40 nil

It's only a game ...
Yeah it would be nice to have a Manly based NSW Cup team but I feel like you guys are missing the fact that a good percentage of our team is made up of Westfield Sports High imports, who are developed in systems we have minimal investment in due to the Blacktown agreement.

They used to just stack the Beacon Hill Bears with these kids and our comps suffered for it tbh, it's not an ideal situation but it's producing juniors for us one way or another.
Does having the Blacktown team enable first access to juniors in that area? I assume whichever juniors are scouted from that area still need be signed by us in order to retain them. I think our best junior signings from the west so far have been Haumole, Schuster & the Fainus. I think Paseka & some others are Balmain juniors and Koula & Weekes were both raised on the north side.

Having a local reserve grade side should also encourage the development of local juniors. At the moment, we only have the Trbojevics, Parker & Fulton in the top grade. As we know, several good juniors were signed by other clubs & became NRL regulars.
 

Nike

Reserve Grader
Does having the Blacktown team enable first access to juniors in that area? I assume whichever juniors are scouted from that area still need be signed by us in order to retain them. I think our best junior signings from the west so far have been Haumole, Schuster & the Fainus. I think Paseka & some others are Balmain juniors and Koula & Weekes were both raised on the north side.

Having a local reserve grade side should also encourage the development of local juniors. At the moment, we only have the Trbojevics, Parker & Fulton in the top grade. As we know, several good juniors were signed by other clubs & became NRL regulars.
I think it would given the financial outlay they're making, and I agree with you mostly. My point was more along the lines of the Manly-Warringah local juniors not producing a sufficient number of professional footballers for an NRL team.

I hate it too but I think it's a necessary evil in todays day and age, the suburban and geographical roots our game grew out of (think Glebe Dirty Reds' expulsion) are largely irrelevant today - football clubs are just brands, see "The" Dolphins for an example of this.
 

Shoe1

Journey Man
Newtown is much closer to Cronulla (22 km) than Blacktown is to Brookvale (44 km)

For 2023, the Rabbitohs & Bears are separate teams in in the Knock Out Cup. Here are all the teams

Panthers
Bears
Eels
Raiders
Warriors
Knights
Sea Eagles
Bulldogs
Jets
Rabbitohs
Magpies
Roosters
Dragons
Yeah but the traffic on king st/princes hwy is so bad it takes hours to get from Newtown to Cronulla. Conversely, Blacktown via Mona vale rd and northconnex is a dream run.
 

40 nil

It's only a game ...
I think it would given the financial outlay they're making, and I agree with you mostly. My point was more along the lines of the Manly-Warringah local juniors not producing a sufficient number of professional footballers for an NRL team.

It would be interesting to know the break up, according to local v. imported, of our current Matthews, Ball & Flegg teams. Is there a way to find out?

I hate it too but I think it's a necessary evil in todays day and age, the suburban and geographical roots our game grew out of (think Glebe Dirty Reds' expulsion) are largely irrelevant today - football clubs are just brands, see "The" Dolphins for an example of this.

I would speculate that the majority of Sea Eagles supporters live in or have lived in the Manly area (I could be wrong).

Imagine if you're a Manly local, you've represented Manly at junior levels and to take the next step to Manly reserve grade, you have o train & play well outside the local area. It's not an enticing prospect.
 
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Adz

Reserve Grader
It would be interesting to know the break up, according to local v. imported, of our current Matthews, Ball & Flegg teams. Is there a way to find out?



I would speculate that the majority of Sea Eagles supporters live in or have lived in the Manly area (I could be wrong).

Imagine if you're a Manly local, you've represented Manly at junior levels and to take the next step to Manly reserve grade, you have o train & play well outside the local area. It's not an enticing prospect.
There are 2 local juniors in the entire Matthews squad and neither were named in the top 17 for the round 1 match.(Ethan Fulton and AJ Tangi)
 

47MVEagle

Bencher
Surely there are clubs who are closer geographically to the northern beaches we could use as our reserve grade?

The whole Central Coast area for example - I know that used to be part of Norths catchment area but with them gone why can’t we get the Wyong Roos or similar as our feeder club?

I’m sure the Roosters had them feeding them at one point.
 

40 nil

It's only a game ...
There are 2 local juniors in the entire Matthews squad and neither were named in the top 17 for the round 1 match.(Ethan Fulton and AJ Tangi)
Thank you.

I see that there is a similar break up of players in SG Ball (& Flegg also it seems). The imported players are from NSW country, QLD or Endeavour High (only a couple from Westfield High). Times have changed! It is sad that there are very few local players. Many of our best ever players have been local juniors.

I still wonder if there any real benefit in having our reserve grade training & playing out of Blacktown? Surely, having a uniform training environment would provide a better foundation for reserves to step up to NRL when needed. The Blacktown Sea Eagles has mostly performed poorly* in the years since it entered the NSW Cup. On the occasions I've watched games, defensive structures bave been poor & teamwork is not great. During these covid years, team lists have varied greatly from week to week. Is playing in a continually non competitive team helpful for player development? There is the old adage 'success breeds success'. Let's see if the situation at Blacktown can be turned around this year.

*28 wins, 70 losses, win record 28%
 
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Terry Zarsoff

First Grader
Thank you.

I see that there is a similar break up of players in SG Ball (& Flegg also it seems). The imported players are from NSW country, QLD or Endeavour High (only a couple from Westfield High). Times have changed! It is sad that there are very few local players. Many of our best ever players have been local juniors.

I still wonder if there any real benefit in having our reserve grade training & playing out of Blacktown? Surely, having a uniform training environment would provide a better foundation for reserves to step up to NRL when needed. The Blacktown Sea Eagles has mostly performed poorly* in the years since it entered the NSW Cup. On the occasions I've watched games, defensive structures bave been poor & teamwork is not great. During these covid years, team lists have varied greatly from week to week. Is playing in a continually non competitive team helpful for player development? There is the old adage 'success breeds success'. Let's see if the situation at Blacktown can be turned around this year.

*28 wins, 70 losses, win record 28%
I imagine if a greater focus was placed on bringing real Manly juniors through, not the ersatz variety, we would see it happen.

I think the CEO is of that belief, so we might see some changes in coming years, if he can bring Penn along with him.
 
I imagine if a greater focus was placed on bringing real Manly juniors through, not the ersatz variety, we would see it happen.

I think the CEO is of that belief, so we might see some changes in coming years, if he can bring Penn along with him.
Yeah, I hear Mestrov is keen on having our own team playing under our own banner. I dont know how long the deal is with Blacktown is but I hear they pour plenty of dollars into this deal
 

Woodsie

Feast yer eyes ..
Tipping Member
Can somebody tell me how many teams we have playing in the local u/16's competition ... and then tell me if this is the junior nursery we should be relying on ...
 

40 nil

It's only a game ...
Can somebody tell me how many teams we have playing in the local u/16's competition ... and then tell me if this is the junior nursery we should be relying on
There are nine junior clubs in the M-W area and four of these regularly play in the NSWRL U16 & U17 Conferences. They have moderate success & and I assume team members are mostly imports. The M-W area doesn't have enough junior players to be a nursery for a successful NRL team and the Sea Eagles have been relying on imports for some time.

I'm not sure, but it seems the Roosters have only three junior teams in their area and yet field a Roosters NSW Cup team. Thus, it appears to me that money is the main reason we don't have a local NSW Cup team. Earlier, it was posted that a major reason for having reserve grade at Blacktown is because we source so many young players from the western suburbs & Westfield High. However, our current junior rep teams are mainly sourced from NSW Country & QLD with Endeavour High being the predominant sports highschool source in Sydney.

Currently, we have five local juniors in our top thirty 30 (it appears Cooper Johns will become the sixth) and we have several players that have been in the pathways system for some years. If our NRL team is mostly imports, why can't the import heavy reserves team train alongside them at the Centre of Excellence and play their home & away games at the same venues on the same days?

Those of us who were born and raised on the peninsula probably think of Blacktown culture as being the complete opposite of northern beaches culture. Indeed, when posters on this forum suggest out of form players be sent to Blacktown, it is almost like despatching them to purgatory :)

It Mestrov is able to return our NRL Cup side to the area, it would be a major achievement for the Sea Eagles and would be a major factor in making our club a rugby league powerhouse once again (IMO).
 
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Adz

Reserve Grader
There are nine junior clubs in the M-W area and four of these regularly play in the NSWRL U16 & U17 Conferences. They have moderate success & and I assume team members are mostly imports. The M-W area doesn't have enough junior players to be a nursery for a successful NRL team and the Sea Eagles have been relying on imports for some time.

I'm not sure, but it seems the Roosters have only three junior teams in their area and yet field a Roosters NSW Cup team. Thus, it appears to me that money is the main reason we don't have a local NSW Cup team. Earlier, it was posted that a major reason for having reserve grade at Blacktown is because we source so many young players from the western suburbs & Westfield High. However, our current junior rep teams are mainly sourced from NSW Country & QLD with Endeavour High being the predominant sports highschool source in Sydney.

Currently, we have five local juniors in our top thirty 30 (it appears Cooper Johns will become the sixth) and we have several players that have been in the pathways system for some years. If our NRL team is mostly imports, why can't the import heavy reserves team train alongside them at the Centre of Excellence and play their home & away games at the same venues on the same days?

Those of us who were born and raised on the peninsula probably think of Blacktown culture as being the complete opposite of northern beaches culture. Indeed, when posters on this forum suggest out of form players be sent to Blacktown, it is almost like despatching them to purgatory :)

It Mestrov is able to return our NRL Cup side to the area, it would be a major achievement for the Sea Eagles and would be a major factor in making our club a rugby league powerhouse once again (IMO).
The Roosters do have a KOE cup side this year but they are linked to Glebe as their feeder club who have sides I believe In RMC and SS.
Yes, they will probably look to promote more juniors into the reserves but will still be importing players.
I believe that Workers will not have any sides in the RMC and SS this year,I guess they will be streamlining their player signings a bit with a few higher end guys(Dias,Roache,Stuckey,Matterson,Abbey,Dargan,Ferris,Toby possibly as some names who will be linked to them).
Supposedly any players who do not make the reserves side will play with Penrith Bros, in the SS cup.
I have no issue with whatever the powers choose to do as long as we continue to produce regular talent through our juniors,smarter people than I have to make those decisions.
 

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