We have good players - just not in form

[Mark from Brisbane]

Attitude , Penrith & Melbourne players have “ bought in”.

Most of ours buy plenty of stuff with their $$$$$

And just accept that we are ****.

I didn’t watch the game last night but heard it was a cracker , heaps out on each side , the others left standing up and fighting to the end.

We used to do that to.

One day it might happen again, but probably not until a lot of the current players are washed through the system.

 

[Tragic Eagle]

Our squad is like an engine with good components badly out of tune. Well tuned our engine could compete with the best. There are key players that control the teams momentum and performance. You can't expect players that are outside key players that are not getting good service and given opportunities with ball in hand to find good form. Defence is a state of mind and if you feel that your team is hopeless with the ball and handing over possession with aimless bombs and ball players turning back inside and running away from you, then the mental edge is lost and enthusiasm and concentration in defence wanes. This has been happening to our side for a long long time and it has not been fixed. It can be fixed it just takes courage to make the hard calls and to stop pandering to underperforming top liners.

 

[manly al]

I watched most of the Storm and Panthers last night and just illustrated Maxta "s point about competing in every play and desperation defence and doing all of the one percenters . The will to compete and the will to win . Not saying that the Manly lads are not prepared to compete but need their minds on the job and eager for the full eighty and some pride in their overall defensive efforts again .

 

[Ron E. Gibbs]

No offence to maxta's original post, but isn't the real problem that we also have lots of very ordinary players who also aren't playing to their (very ordinary) potential? There is no standard being set and apparently no accountability for poor performance. Which makes the end result (ie, we get beaten a lot) kind of inevitable.

 

[Brookie Bob]

We all hark back to 2019 in which a lot of these blokes went well and it’s easy to see a return to form.

Totally different game. After that first half from Storm in Rd 1 I said to my brother we are “ cooked” if Des follows his usual pattern.2020 revisit on the way.

Jake’s form slump started as soon as the game sped right up after Covid.It’s not a coincidence.
He looks like a cart horse amidst Ferrari’s. Only his big ticker keeps him in the hunt.13 is fast and mobile
See Radley Murray etc

All of a sudden Thommo was ordinary after covid. Still tough but older, slower and struggling with the speed.Again no coincidence.

Other guys who were ok / fringe players but not quite quick enough have been found out. Before their lack of pace was disguised in a slower game.See Suli , Parker , Tafua, Croker etc

Wrong cattle for the new game. Our guys are not that much worse as footballers, they are just playing a game that doesn’t suit them. It won’t get better till we realize that and field a side that can play the new rugby league.This is just rearranging the deck chairs.

There is no way the side that Des picked this week, even with Tommy back , will threaten the better sides.Get Fainu back and speed up the three quarters and we will start competing at least.That coukd happen this year if Des bites the bullet.

it’s going to take time, but unless they realize it now and mould the roster around the modern game it’s going to be a dark old decade of footy.

Watching Davey's injury, while not good for us, highlights what speed and intensity can bring. Cam Murray, despite giving away between 10 and 15 kgs to Davey, hits him like a freight train in that tackle. The force of the tackle twists Davey slightly sideways, and perhaps contributes to the injury.

The fact that it happen so early in the game set the tone. Good players set the tone for the game, and Murray - despite his lack of size - was sending a message to both the opposition and his own pack.

Jake needs to find his speed again, both in attack and defense. When he does, it lifts the whole pack. Our pack sees him as the leader, at least of the forwards, in many ways.

 

[maxta]

No offence to maxta's original post, but isn't the real problem that we also have lots of very ordinary players who also aren't playing to their (very ordinary) potential? There is no standard being set and apparently no accountability for poor performance. Which makes the end result (ie, we get beaten a lot) kind of inevitable.

To a degree Mr Gibbs, you are right and I in no way want to pretend we have an amazing roster (compared to the top 4-5 sides), but neither did NZ Warriors last season who competed against the best and beat many others...basically held together by Scheck and a bunch of goers...
My point more would be....some of the players like Garrick , Parker, Croker, Goziewski would be far more effective, with less errors, missed tackles and run the ball with more intent "IF" the more senior players were in more dominant form.
As an example, if you put them around a confident and in form group of Jake, DCE, Kapow, Foz and Walker who are really vocal and showing the way with energy and desire, these other players will suddenly look far better and give us all a more exciting and competitive team to support.

 

[Ryan]

Posted in another thread @maxta , I some what disagree. Here are the players I think are worth keeping (from our current first grade team):

Tom Trbojevic, Jason Saab, Dylan Walker, Josh Schuster, Cade Cust, Taniela Paseka, Manase Fainu, Haumole Olakau'atu, Jake Trbojevic, Karl Lawton, Sean Keppie, Josh Aloiai & Andrew Davey

Build around those. Release the rest (or trade)

 

[maxta]

Posted in another thread @maxta , I some what disagree. Here are the players I think are worth keeping (from our current first grade team):

Tom Trbojevic, Jason Saab, Dylan Walker, Josh Schuster, Cade Cust, Taniela Paseka, Manase Fainu, Haumole Olakau'atu, Jake Trbojevic, Karl Lawton, Sean Keppie, Josh Aloiai & Andrew Davey

Build around those. Release the rest (or trade)

I think we are on the same page actually....no doubt we need the broom through the place.
My point was more about effectively making the best of what you got and though not the best Manly squad Iv'e seen, still playing sub par regardless.
I know it's unrealistic to hold hope in 2021, but as a Manly tragic, really want to still have hope of...well doing the Best we can and having a team to be proud of.
These Key players can lift these other blokes off the canvas, because in this tough - hard game of Rugby League, you need leaders to step up and the others will follow and not become Superstars, but at least to their best ability, which has not been close to happening...

 

[Kalvin]

Posted in another thread @maxta , I some what disagree. Here are the players I think are worth keeping (from our current first grade team):

Tom Trbojevic, Jason Saab, Dylan Walker, Josh Schuster, Cade Cust, Taniela Paseka, Manase Fainu, Haumole Olakau'atu, Jake Trbojevic, Karl Lawton, Sean Keppie, Josh Aloiai & Andrew Davey

Build around those. Release the rest (or trade)

I agree but if walker is to stay.. he needs to lower his $$ expectations to what he was put on when he first got here imo!

 

[Waz13]

I know there's a few ordinary players in the Manly 17, but most clubs have this issue, apart from the Top 4 sides who can somehow fit all the stars in Pandora's box.....
My point being, it's partly about making your lessor players simply "do their job" and this allow's your star players "To Shine", but this is in actual fact, a 2 way street....
Instead of just concentrating the focus on how bad the Garrick, Parker and Goz ect are performing, what about the beast Suli playing up to the lofty standards he has already shown - went to Amazing form then gets ultra fit yet effort is in reverse, Sirro out now, but been damn ordinary for a bloke being mentioned in SOO talk only last season....the halves both DCE and Foz, if I hadn't seen them play, would have though they were not the Superstars we know they are and Tapau, well he went a Long way towards saving his status vs Souths so expecting him to keep the form from now.
I realise the teams in round 1 and 2 were simply no match for the Roosters or Souths, but they are a heap better than what we are seeing and just maybe, if our big name players can find the their Top form, the lessor name players who cop a ribbing each week may perfom admirally and better than we have come to expect.
Perhaps it's up to the Star players to lift this week and lift those blokes around them.
The old saying your only as good as your weakest link can be accurate, but also the level of these weaker players can improve dramatically with belief and confidence, which is what your best players should bring to a team wanting success.

I’d say the top 4 teams have these players too. Put sone of their players in crap teams and they won’t shine at all.

 

[Deleted member 26876]

Yep but they are lacking a bit of leadership to keep them composed through the game. Our side spends 50 minutes a game in a panicked state.

That’s why I was so pissed off when Davey got injured last weekend, he looked like someone that lead by example

 

[Ryan]

That’s why I was so pissed off when Davey got injured last weekend, he looked like someone that lead by example

Well he definitely seemed to care unlike most of the rest of our playing group.
No passion for the jersey whatsoever

 

[Waz13]

Posted in another thread @maxta , I some what disagree. Here are the players I think are worth keeping (from our current first grade team):

Tom Trbojevic, Jason Saab, Dylan Walker, Josh Schuster, Cade Cust, Taniela Paseka, Manase Fainu, Haumole Olakau'atu, Jake Trbojevic, Karl Lawton, Sean Keppie, Josh Aloiai & Andrew Davey

Build around those. Release the rest (or trade)

Getting rid of 17 players that’s a fair broom through

 

[maxta]

I’d say the top 4 teams have these players too. Put sone of their players in crap teams and they won’t shine at all.

In the Manly win over Roosters last year I have a small but relevant example...Tom T Star fullback scores a try and more importantly saves 2, giving Manly a slender lead in the dying ambers, but MOST importantly plays with passion to lift these (other players) around him.....Roosters have the ball and need to score, an inside ball to Tedesco who is cleaned up by "Croker" and loses the ball and Manly hang on...now I have zero scientific evidence this is true, but if Tom was not there leading by example and inspiring, the Roosters likely leading by 20 at this stage and Tedesco bursts through Croker to run 60m and score another blowout try.
In other words, when your inspirational players are pumped and having a red hot go, these other players will make the extra effort plays they would not when the leading players are flat and showing little energy.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

In the Manly win over Roosters last year I have a small but relevant example...Tom T Star fullback scores a try and more importantly saves 2, giving Manly a slender lead in the dying ambers, but MOST importantly plays with passion to lift these (other players) around him.....Roosters have the ball and need to score, an inside ball to Tedesco who is cleaned up by "Croker" and loses the ball and Manly hang on...now I have zero scientific evidence this is true, but if Tom was not there leading by example and inspiring, the Roosters likely leading by 20 at this stage and Tedesco bursts through Croker to run 60m and score another blowout try.

What we clearly currently lack is leadership.

There’s some fair players there but who is leading ??

Used to be Jake but he’s currently seemingly “ lost”.

The Captain is like a headless chook.

The fullback is really a centre.

You watch tonight , the Dragons score first , the heads droop.

They score again , the heads drop.

If they score again that’s it , all over red rover, they struggle to get back in defence , they start missing tackles.

We’ve won ONE game in 14.

No leadership and no direction from the powers to be.

 

[The better Robbo]

Also note that Penrith last night missing Cleary, Api and the fullback injured first half who was Penriths best player first 40 minutes, which is 75% of their spine....still toppled Storm through the other big players stepping up and in turn, the lessor lights lifted, to play to their capacity.
Strongly believe that if DCE, Foz, Kapow, Walker, Suli lift their game - the team will follow and raise their game.
Not become world beaters overnight, but at least compete every play and actually play like they can win the game.

We had a worse injury toll when we made semis only to lose by a dud call to the bunnies with Jake's sin bin... That wasn't so long ago, I don't think we are as far off as people think. Also remember Panthers were awful only a couple years ago, Eels got the spoon a few years ago. The difference between struggling and top 4 is not that great! We have the cattle, we just need to keep them on the paddock, once we start winning again that gains confidence and momentum and team harmony.

 

[susan]

We had a worse injury toll when we made semis only to lose by a dud call to the bunnies with Jake's sin bin... That wasn't so long ago, I don't think we are as far off as people think. Also remember Panthers were awful only a couple years ago, Eels got the spoon a few years ago. The difference between struggling and top 4 is not that great! We have the cattle, we just need to keep them on the paddock, once we start winning again that gains confidence and momentum and team harmony.

2019 is nothing like 2021. It’s a different game. Any comparison is moot. It is power and speed. We don’t have it.

 

[The better Robbo]

2019 is nothing like 2021. It’s a different game. Any comparison is moot. It is power and speed. We don’t have it.

With Turbo, Saab, Garrick and even throw Chez in there we have plenty of speed. You'd argue Suli has power. Judging by this argument our backline should be ok with the exception of Parker.
Our game plan is a disaster, we have no heart, no commitment and a general lack of X factor. I still maintain by adding Fainu, Lawton and Turbo and Des selecting the right players we aren't as far off as it may seem.

 

[susan]

Ive said this before in other threads It’s not just player speed. That’s simplistic.Watch our “ fast players” play the ball. They are like old women.

It’s play the ball speed, hitting your stomach, playmakers hitting advantage line at speed , line speed in defence, edges coming from deep -playing the GAME at speed.
And we don’t have power wingers like everyone else. One guy is a skinny kid with a bit of talent , the other a rag doll.And then there is Parker ....

The game needs to be played at speed. Fast players don’t guarantee that- good coaching to the new game rules and effort does though