Too much structure in League

[Bearfax]

Something I've mentioned on these forums in the past is how excessive structural play is we are seeing in a lot of teams that I suspect is killing performances. In too many games the same up the centre barges followed by the kick in attack, awaiting that one error by the opposition and confining most players to a corridor that they stick to throughout the game, is strangling the flow of the game.

I was so pleased that Matthew Johns, invited onto NRL 360 tonight, focused on this very issue as being one of the reasons NSW, especially in the halves are failing. As pointed out QLD have at least 6 or 7 halves who could play SOO but NSW, other than Pearce have almost none. The one bright up and comer, Cleary, learned his early skills in New Zealand. What Johns is saying is that the coaching of NSW halves is flawed and too structured, too focused. It was a surprisingly erudite presentation given by someone who I hadnt realised had such an intellectual understanding of the game. If you get a chance to see the repeat viewing, watch it. Its surprisingly thoughtful for a football show.

Manly are lucky in this respect having DCE, a QLD trained half. The Johns brothers have apparently been involved in training several of the bright young halves including Munster, DCE, Foran, Cronk, just to name a few. This I suspect is one of the reasons Manly are succeeding, because Barrett is much more into offloading, spreading the ball. following the play, giving players like TT a free rein, rather than the cumbersome Canterbury, Sydney City, Souths style of late, just barging big forwards up the middle.

Maybe I'm wrong here, as I often am, but I suspect Johns is onto one of the problems NSW has been experiencing in the past decade. What are your thoughts?

 

[Dan]

The thing is sometimes that structure works, look at that last try Jake, that was 100% set play and structure that worked exactly as they intended. The thing is it was non-standard structure. It was a different play to everything else that we do. We have run that move before, but usually on or around half way. Running it that close to the lines was a stroke of genius, where they expected big bodies at the posts or a skip outside to walker, we pushed back through with finesse and changed the angle

 

[The Who]

What I can't get my head around these days are players who can only - or are only coached to - play one side of the field. When I hear that you can't recruit a right-side centre because you need a left-side centre then the sport has gone mad. DESpicable is obviously guilty of over-coaching at The Dogs because they play like autobots and are too predictable.
For goodness sake, if a player is good he should be able to play what's in front of him and position himself to take advantage of his skill, not be pigeon-holed like positions in American football.

 

[Bearfax]

The thing is sometimes that structure works, look at that last try Jake, that was 100% set play and structure that worked exactly as they intended. The thing is it was non-standard structure. It was a different play to everything else that we do. We have run that move before, but usually on or around half way. Running it that close to the lines was a stroke of genius, where they expected big bodies at the posts or a skip outside to walker, we pushed back through with finesse and changed the angle

I'm speaking of excessive structural play. Obviously there needs to be some structure, but there needs to also be a lot of room for spontaneity. Canberra and Penrith succeeded last year because they kept throwing that ball around tiring out the opposition. Same apparently with that Walker bros QLD second division side. Some teams are so structured they are not adequately prepared for the unexpected

 

[Deleted member 26876]

Definitely, some sides are as you said killing themeselves with their excessive structures put in place (certainly Bulldogs, Souths). The only extremely structured side I believe do it right is the roosters, some crisp attacking plays dished out every now and then although our "structure" is the best. Our structure (in comparison to other sides) allows us to have the crisp attacking plays of the roosters combined with the free attack of the panthers/raiders and the forward power of the old Bulldogs, I like it, I like it a lot

 

[globaleagle]

I record all the games and some are so predictable I watch them by hitting the '30 second skip forward' button repeatedly.

That way the coverage usually skips straight to the 5th tackle option and I watch what happens then.

 

[mave]

What I can't get my head around these days are players who can only - or are only coached to - play one side of the field. When I hear that you can't recruit a right-side centre because you need a left-side centre then the sport has gone mad. DESpicable is obviously guilty of over-coaching at The Dogs because they play like autobots and are too predictable.
For goodness sake, if a player is good he should be able to play what's in front of him and position himself to take advantage of his skill, not be pigeon-holed like positions in American football.

Most of these guys are pigeonholed into left or right early on, simply because they can only step off the one foot, can only palm with the one hand, can only pass one way, etc, etc. ( or in Hayne's case can't pass at all)

 

[Mal Cochrane]

Agree. How many 4th tackles on the opponents tryline is just a forward hitting it up.

 

[Tragic Eagle]

It's like making a cake you need all of the essential ingredients, if one ingredient is missing you can't make a cake. Structure is one of the essential ingredients to a successful foot team. But that one ingredient alone or used overwhelmingly will not produce a successful team. Hasler and Maquire appear to me to be coaches that have allowed their focus on structure to suffocate talent and and individual instinct and skill. Sometimes this over emphasis is as a product of being let down by constant and stupid on field decisions made by individual players that stifles and undermines the team's game plan and preparation. This results in coaches not trusting their players and not giving them the permission to play what they see within reason. The tell tale symptom IMO is a team that struggles to score points. TB appears to have doing well with structure and be utilizing the payers best attributes and skills. Perrett during an interview spoke of how the players felt that Barrett trusted them and allowed the to play their natural game. It's a difficult balance to achieve and TB to his credit (notwithstanding the bagging I gave him last season)

 

[Tragic Eagle]

is achieving that balance.

 

[Rodo]

I'd love to see the Walker brothers given a go at NRL level. The way they coach the game in QLD cup is so out of the box and a breath of fresh air.

 

[maxta]

Totally agree.
Big problem is the coaching at junior level, including at rep level is taking the natural ability out of the players....all about possession, field position, kick and kick pressure....the players are scared to test their hand or do something not in the script.
I agree 100% to win the ruck is integral , but this wrestling crap makes the interpretation such a grey area...the inconsistency depending on the officials has far too much say in a game result.
The copybook tackle or great waistline driving shot are becoming extinct, killing the spectacle and tbh, the Holden cup scores of 52-32 clearly show the defensive wrestle training allows a flood of points as the legs are what we run with.
Back to the attack...not only are these talented players scared to follow their instincts...the team mates are already getting set for the next play and where they MUST be, instead of running through the hole ahead because they are waiting for their role as a runner in 2 plays??
I can guarantee the Slater/Stewart types have had their most magical highlight reel of tries from playing footy and simply supporting the ball...a few are planned, but it's the instinct that separates the good from the great.

 

[COMMANDER]

It's all about possession and field position and not compromising either, which can become boring.

There aren't a lot of risks being taken.

 

[Hamster Huey]

Something I've mentioned on these forums in the past is how excessive structural play is we are seeing in a lot of teams that I suspect is killing performances. In too many games the same up the centre barges followed by the kick in attack, awaiting that one error by the opposition and confining most players to a corridor that they stick to throughout the game, is strangling the flow of the game.

I was so pleased that Matthew Johns, invited onto NRL 360 tonight, focused on this very issue as being one of the reasons NSW, especially in the halves are failing. As pointed out QLD have at least 6 or 7 halves who could play SOO but NSW, other than Pearce have almost none. The one bright up and comer, Cleary, learned his early skills in New Zealand. What Johns is saying is that the coaching of NSW halves is flawed and too structured, too focused. It was a surprisingly erudite presentation given by someone who I hadnt realised had such an intellectual understanding of the game. If you get a chance to see the repeat viewing, watch it. Its surprisingly thoughtful for a football show.

Manly are lucky in this respect having DCE, a QLD trained half. The Johns brothers have apparently been involved in training several of the bright young halves including Munster, DCE, Foran, Cronk, just to name a few. This I suspect is one of the reasons Manly are succeeding, because Barrett is much more into offloading, spreading the ball. following the play, giving players like TT a free rein, rather than the cumbersome Canterbury, Sydney City, Souths style of late, just barging big forwards up the middle.

Maybe I'm wrong here, as I often am, but I suspect Johns is onto one of the problems NSW has been experiencing in the past decade. What are your thoughts?

NSW's biggest problem was they didn't have a Johns to replace Johns when Johns retired!