Tom Trbojevic destined to be one of the greats

[HK_Eagle]

You forgot to say he is also a top rated centre and winger and if he was played there would probably be a top class forward. He is a freak of a footballer and top class person, we are lucky to have him. I would rather have a Bugatti in the garage waiting on a part to get it on the road than make do with a Toyota

Depends on whether you need to get somewhere or simply wanna gloat to your neighbours that you have a Bugatti, I guess.

 

[lsz]

A couple of things

1. He is upside is worth any risk / cap impact
2. How many times will we write off champions? Snake…even dare I say it Billy slater who missed two full seasons with shoulder issues

 

[jbb/james]

imagine tom in a side where he doesnt have to be the everything man. He needs to support one off the ruck, not take runs one off the ruck. He doesnt need to be running from dummy half to create what others don't, but he does.

Ive been saying for sometime we are overworking and overusing our gun player and then wonder why he is breaking down. The only glimmer of hope we have had for the last few seasons is tom, tom, tom,
So why

Tom should be the best decoy in the business but instead we just throw him into the teeth of the defence again and again.

Fatigue leads to injuries. Proven fact

We use our ferrari for trips to the dump, as a people mover , to move house , because those around him sit back and allow it, and cash in off his back

He hits the line to promote other players more often than any other player and that hurts. It sucks when he is injured because we know the team wont replace what he brings which is sad , because what he brings is effort, selflessness and desire every touch , and every human chooses to use that or not. Why do our halves not sniff around and ball play with the same intent instead of trying to offload from a position of self preservation. ball players get hammered, thats why the get the big dollars.

He and jake are the heart and soul of manly . If more of our players had the same on field ethic, and white line fever that these guys do, we would be challenging the riff

Without tom we look strong on paper and no where else

Last season very few were complaing about our forwards because tom was providing a genuine ball playing half back role. When he was targetted in finals and had no assistance they were marshmallows again

Our number 7 in particular needs to find his role. Game mange all day , all year or ball play all day , all year and let tom be a fullback. Chez is not toms wingman

Yes im direct but its sad to see a genuine gamebreaker being overworked and then looking so dejected after giving every little bit of what he has got. And to hear he said sorry to des for getting injured. WOW . He and jake are old fashioned superheros .

They are our ben kennedys everyone wants. BK just had better accomplices and had a culture impact. Our culture is bedded down in our number 7 and while he is a good player he lacks the steel and just isnt the follow me type at all

 

[Pete W]

imagine tom in a side where he doesnt have to be the everything man. He needs to support one off the ruck, not take runs one off the ruck. He doesnt need to be running from dummy half to create what others don't, but he does.

Ive been saying for sometime we are overworking and overusing our gun player and then wonder why he is breaking down. The only glimmer of hope we have had for the last few seasons is tom, tom, tom,
So why

Tom should be the best decoy in the business but instead we just throw him into the teeth of the defence again and again.

Fatigue leads to injuries. Proven fact

We use our ferrari for trips to the dump, as a people mover , to move house , because those around him sit back and allow it, and cash in off his back

He hits the line to promote other players more often than any other player and that hurts. It sucks when he is injured because we know the team wont replace what he brings which is sad , because what he brings is effort, selflessness and desire every touch , and every human chooses to use that or not. Why do our halves not sniff around and ball play with the same intent instead of trying to offload from a position of self preservation. ball players get hammered, thats why the get the big dollars.

He and jake are the heart and soul of manly . If more of our players had the same on field ethic, and white line fever that these guys do, we would be challenging the riff

Without tom we look strong on paper and no where else

Last season very few were complaing about our forwards because tom was providing a genuine ball playing half back role. When he was targetted in finals and had no assistance they were marshmallows again

Our number 7 in particular needs to find his role. Game mange all day , all year or ball play all day , all year and let tom be a fullback. Chez is not toms wingman

Yes im direct but its sad to see a genuine gamebreaker being overworked and then looking so dejected after giving every little bit of what he has got. And to hear he said sorry to des for getting injured. WOW . He and jake are old fashioned superheros .

They are our ben kennedys everyone wants. BK just had better accomplices and had a culture impact. Our culture is bedded down in our number 7 and while he is a good player he lacks the steel and just isnt the follow me type at all

Agree to most of this. Manly most certainly over-rely on Tom to do everything. But as far as involvement goes, the best (e.g. Teddy, even Pap, Gtho, Edwards, etc) are literally in everything, all the time. Should we be hitting Tubo on every play? Absolutely not. Does our 9 need to create opportunities in the middle? Fkn oath. But what makes these players (fullbacks) the best is that they pride themselves on being on the ball as much as possible. He's not necessarily over-worked for today's fullback, but imo his body type (and luck) works against him when it comes to high intensity performance and collision.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Ive been saying for sometime we are overworking and overusing our gun player and then wonder why he is breaking down

The shoulder injury was nothing to do with being overworked, it was just due to the way he landed in desperately reaching for that ball to save a try.

As for @HK_Eagle or others who might think he's not worth retaining due to his injuries, the main problem with this is that no player is guranteed to be free from injury. We could conceivably arrange a player swap with a lesser, supposedly more durable player say Dylan Edwards as an example and next minute something happens to Edwards. The game these days is so hard on the human body, we have 1/3 of our squad injured at any given time and on average so do all the other clubs!

 

[jbb/james]

The shoulder injury was nothing to do with being overworked, it was just due to the way he landed in desperately reaching for that ball to save a try.

As for @HK_Eagle or others who might think he's not worth retaining due to his injuries, the main problem with this is that no player is guranteed to be free from injury. We could conceivably arrange a player swap with a lesser, supposedly more durable player say Dylan Edwards as an example and next minute something happens to Edwards. The game these days is so hard on the human body, we have 1/3 of our squad injured at any given time and on average so do all the other clubs!

Fatigue has been proven in many studies to increase injury. What part of the body do you think they injure inder fatigue ?

A lung muscle injury maybe, or do they get sleepy eye

Fatigue leads to poor decisions, a loss of form physically , and the consequences

Maybe his shoulder injury happens anyway, but maybe we are lamenting it less as he may have had less hammy issues. That pec injury and how he went at the player looked tired to me rather than a brilliant step

But back to the. Point of being overused and the roles he is playing. Moving forward do you think he will play more games carrying the team on his back or do you think the current balance is good

Should others shoulder more of the tough runs. Its a big YES from me

 

[Ryan]

Or using their first 8 years as a fair measure - Brett played only 14.75 per season, I get Tom at 15.12 (assuming he doesn't play again this year)

Point being we can't write a current player off - nor rose colour our view of past players

Also I didn't say Brett was injured more often. was merely highlighting the fact we did go for large portions of seasons without him, that can't be denied.

Your point about the cap is noted and I don't disagree - but what is the solution? I know you will give a thoughtful reply

And just to create a wrinkle in your reply - what is the contractual exclusions you would suggest to give us the ability to dump someone following a level of injury that is deemed unacceptable.

Quite the contrary, I think the numbers I provided shows both Snake and Turbo are very similar constitution wise, and in my opinion, Snake WAS one of the greats ! I guess that suggests both opinions are right?

I'd never write Turbo off. That said, you have to plan around him. Back in the day we started using Robertson at fullback, until Des saw the light, and acquired Hiku (a fullback coming through). We need to do something similar, but to do that, we need to balance the roster.

In my view, the following players have albatross type contracts:
1. Tom Trbojevic
2. DCE - getting heavily reduced - but given our performances fast track this and exit him.
3. Jake Trbojevic
4. Marty Taupau - leaving

It's paramount to our clubs success that in 2025 (or whenever Jake comes off contract) he takes much, MUCH less as well.

That would leave us paying Tom the most, then the rest of the squad on normal kind of money. This allows you to balance out the roster and spread the talent. Unfortunately for us, out of our 4 marquee guys, 1 rarely plays, and the other 3 play well under their pay packet. This HURTS the entire roster and squad.

We have quality talent ready for the next step - that you could sign for 250k odd per season (for say 3-4 years) that would allow investment elsewhere. Weekes (Foran) / Tuitavake (Taupau) / Humphreys (DCE), and you're getting 1.65 odd mill in caps-pace to use elsewhere (DCE 1.2, Marty 800k, Foran 400k, less say 750k for the three players named).

Use that 1.65 to acquire 2 blue chip / Origin players (hooker, centre, forward are priority), to carry the rookies to a degree in the short term, but you still have the likes of Turbo, Koula, Garrick, Aloiai, Tuipulotu, Schuster, Paseka, (Fainu possibly) around them.

Trust me, these kids will be amazing. They dominated a near full strength Tigers in the trials. It was when DCE / Foz were playing that our free flowing attack stopped, and the scoring dried up. You could honestly add Payne Haas, and the best available centre ! THEN pick up quality fullback depth for Turbo.

It's called a re-balancing of the squad, on TOP of building towards the future. I 100% believe The Dolphins would take DCE off our hands. Now is the time.

 

[jbb/james]

Agree to most of this. Manly most certainly over-rely on Tom to do everything. But as far as involvement goes, the best (e.g. Teddy, even Pap, Gtho, Edwards, etc) are literally in everything, all the time. Should we be hitting Tubo on every play? Absolutely not. Does our 9 need to create opportunities in the middle? Fkn oath. But what makes these players (fullbacks) the best is that they pride themselves on being on the ball as much as possible. He's not necessarily over-worked for today's fullback, but imo his body type (and luck) works against him when it comes to high intensity performance and collision.

yeah , his body type in league doesnt have a great history. inglis struggled after becoming the major man from fullback after a few seasons. its a good wingers body but his importance is too high for that. him playing centre has been suggested but thats just about moving the roles and workload about, and we dont have anyone to take them up it seems

his work is consistent with the top fullbacks, its the tough runs that set him apart. teddy dances, pappy uses acceleration to squeeze through, and gutho plays more like chez in that he becomes the extra man and has selective passing game, where tom uses brute force and ball plays in the line. he doesnt have the luxury of cashing in off other peoples work so much

moving forward i dont see that changing too much either unless our halves become more dominant

hooker is the big question, need better attack but due to low % plays they also need to be able to rack up 50 tackles a game due to our cumbersome front row rotation


IMO our team and gameplan are from different stratospheres and a fit tom papers over the cracks

 

[jbb/james]

Quite the contrary, I think the numbers I provided shows both Snake and Turbo are very similar constitution wise, and in my opinion, Snake WAS one of the greats ! I guess that suggests both opinions are right?

I'd never write Turbo off. That said, you have to plan around him. Back in the day we started using Robertson at fullback, until Des saw the light, and acquired Hiku (a fullback coming through). We need to do something similar, but to do that, we need to balance the roster.

In my view, the following players have albatross type contracts:
1. Tom Trbojevic
2. DCE - getting heavily reduced - but given our performances fast track this and exit him.
3. Jake Trbojevic
4. Marty Taupau - leaving

It's paramount to our clubs success that in 2025 (or whenever Jake comes off contract) he takes much, MUCH less as well.

That would leave us paying Tom the most, then the rest of the squad on normal kind of money. This allows you to balance out the roster and spread the talent. Unfortunately for us, out of our 4 marquee guys, 1 rarely plays, and the other 3 play well under their pay packet. This HURTS the entire roster and squad.

We have quality talent ready for the next step - that you could sign for 250k odd per season (for say 3-4 years) that would allow investment elsewhere. Weekes (Foran) / Tuitavake (Taupau) / Humphreys (DCE), and you're getting 1.65 odd mill in caps-pace to use elsewhere (DCE 1.2, Marty 800k, Foran 400k, less say 750k for the three players named).

Use that 1.65 to acquire 2 blue chip / Origin players (hooker, centre, forward are priority), to carry the rookies to a degree in the short term, but you still have the likes of Turbo, Koula, Garrick, Aloiai, Tuipulotu, Schuster, Paseka, (Fainu possibly) around them.

Trust me, these kids will be amazing. They dominated a near full strength Tigers in the trials. It was when DCE / Foz were playing that our free flowing attack stopped, and the scoring dried up. You could honestly add Payne Haas, and the best available centre ! THEN pick up quality fullback depth for Turbo.

It's called a re-balancing of the squad, on TOP of building towards the future. I 100% believe The Dolphins would take DCE off our hands. Now is the time.

yeah DCE new contract cant be registered yet. and the fins need someone like that. id test the market for sure. this is the best chance ever for someone to pay full freight for him

with the talent coming through mostly having the same skillsets we need to add an extra dimension to our game

DCE had some rare great kicking games while the contract negs were in play but has turtled into his shell since

 

[lsz]

In our top 30 squad there are 29 other players i would move on before Turbo

 

[Budgie]

Should this thread be renamed "A thread for idiots who want to get rid of Tom".
Seriously. What is wrong with you people?
I hadn't dipped into this thread because I figured it'd be injury projections.
Every other NRL club would have him and, I suspect, most AFL clubs.

 

[voicefromthehill]

I hope like hell Turbo will join those ranks… but the reality is he has had a shipload of major injuries and not reached the heights of those you listed (in terms of longevity and achievements) yet. We are hoping on a purple patch to match those freaks and not taking into account the reality of all those whose careers are cruelled by injury. I bang on far less than Turbo bangs on with injuries. It’s crazy how some get uppity about those who point out the historical patterns. I’m as happy as you if Turbo re-writes the books, but don’t need to have a dig at me for pointing out the glaring pattern to date.

Alright - let me point out the historical patterns for your edification. It is only fair to compare their first 8 years in the game, please also note Tom is still in his 8th year. I am not including representative in games played numbers (but not achievement, as discussed later) as people here only care for club representation, possibly where I have come up with a different number to @Ryan

Tedesco - Avg per season 17.375. In that first 8 years there are two where he only played 1 and 8
Stewart - Avg per season 14.75. In that first 8 years there are two where he only played 1 and 5.
Minichello - Avg per season 20.5. In that first 8 years there are two where he only played 6 and 10
Trbojevic - Avg 15.12. In his initial 8 years there are two where he only played 9 and 7

Stewart - Career avg 16.64 per season
Minichello - Career avg 20.13 per season
Tedesco - current career avg 17.36
Trbojevic - 15.12

So he is 1.5 games behind the legend of Snake on career or in front of the same legend for the comparable period. Clearly we can see Mini is out in front and we know that his injuries were later in his career. Tedesco, he remains a consistent 2 games behind.

What we know about Mini and Ted is they benefit from the Rooster sombrero - it hides the gaps when they are away. Unfortunately we don't have the sombrero but statistically Tom compares to the legends (which you want him to join the ranks of) in games they have played at same stage of career (Mini excepted), so again what is your solution?

Dump him? for who? What is the top class player that can play 1 more game a season at same stage of career?

Of course we can't compare longevity as you have somehow assumed - Tom is still playing. But I would argue his achievements are already on the board as a peer (not an equal) - with a premiership the only remaining crown.

I eagerly await your reply

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

Definitely no way you’d be dumping him but I do wonder what the club will be thinking if 2023 ends up the same.

 

[voicefromthehill]

Quite the contrary, I think the numbers I provided shows both Snake and Turbo are very similar constitution wise, and in my opinion, Snake WAS one of the greats ! I guess that suggests both opinions are right?

I'd never write Turbo off. That said, you have to plan around him. Back in the day we started using Robertson at fullback, until Des saw the light, and acquired Hiku (a fullback coming through). We need to do something similar, but to do that, we need to balance the roster.

In my view, the following players have albatross type contracts:
1. Tom Trbojevic
2. DCE - getting heavily reduced - but given our performances fast track this and exit him.
3. Jake Trbojevic
4. Marty Taupau - leaving

It's paramount to our clubs success that in 2025 (or whenever Jake comes off contract) he takes much, MUCH less as well.

That would leave us paying Tom the most, then the rest of the squad on normal kind of money. This allows you to balance out the roster and spread the talent. Unfortunately for us, out of our 4 marquee guys, 1 rarely plays, and the other 3 play well under their pay packet. This HURTS the entire roster and squad.

We have quality talent ready for the next step - that you could sign for 250k odd per season (for say 3-4 years) that would allow investment elsewhere. Weekes (Foran) / Tuitavake (Taupau) / Humphreys (DCE), and you're getting 1.65 odd mill in caps-pace to use elsewhere (DCE 1.2, Marty 800k, Foran 400k, less say 750k for the three players named).

Use that 1.65 to acquire 2 blue chip / Origin players (hooker, centre, forward are priority), to carry the rookies to a degree in the short term, but you still have the likes of Turbo, Koula, Garrick, Aloiai, Tuipulotu, Schuster, Paseka, (Fainu possibly) around them.

Trust me, these kids will be amazing. They dominated a near full strength Tigers in the trials. It was when DCE / Foz were playing that our free flowing attack stopped, and the scoring dried up. You could honestly add Payne Haas, and the best available centre ! THEN pick up quality fullback depth for Turbo.

It's called a re-balancing of the squad, on TOP of building towards the future. I 100% believe The Dolphins would take DCE off our hands. Now is the time.

Don't always agree - but appreciate your thoughtful reply