Tinks on the Brink?

[COMMANDER]

Wayne Bennet must be kicking himself. The first big salary to be wound up will be his.

 

[Hamster Huey]

He would have obtained tax advice regarding his move to Singapore. His loans are huge and far outweigh his assets. The guys a gambler and most-times gamblers lose. I pity those folk who stood up and voted against his take-over. They were all regarded at the time as fools and knockers. Time will tell, but I think it will end in tears.

The likes of Robbie Tew stood firm and against the face of a hostile Newcastle fan base blinded by the money. He did the hard yards and even if Tinkler goes to poo, there is $20mil in a bank guarantee waiting for them to collect (Tinkler can't touch it, even during a financial crisis).

There is still a very good Plan B for the Knights if Tinker leaves so talk of collapse or moving is just not going to happen.

 

[Jonesyv2]

The Manly / Souths model is so much better than a single private owner for this exact reason. Tinkler has always seemed dodgy to me just something about his demeanor, i of course can't back that up with any fact just a feeling i get when i see him speak.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Don't apologise, Jonesy, it has been established by university studies that feminine intuition is far and away the best method for devising investment strategies.

 

[tookey]

The dominos are falling for poor old Tinkey winkey with his race horse company being placed into liquidation today.

If Tinkler Group Holdings is next then it is all over for the fat man

Another Tinkler firm bites the dust
November 21, 2012 - 1:13PM 215

Another of Nathan Tinkler’s private companies has been placed into liquidation.

In the Federal Court in Adelaide this morning insolvency practitioners Anthony Matthews & Associates were appointed to wind up Patinack Farm Administration, a company which is understood to owe $17,000 to trade creditors of Mr Tinkler’s troubled thoroughbred stud.

Mr Tinkler and his right-hand man, Troy Palmer, are both directors of Patinack Farm Administration.

Advertisement Patinack is believed to have left various debts including some unpaid wages and superannuation, and unpaid feed suppliers, after winding down its South Australian operations some time ago.

The wind-up proceedings were initiated by creditor Workcover Corporation of South Australia, and were supported by Queensland’s Workcover Corporation, reportedly owed $2 million.

On Tuesday Mr Tinkler’s Mulsanne Resources went into liquidation owing $28.4 million to coal explorer Blackwood Corporation.

The directors of a company found to have engaged in insolvent trading can become personally liable for the company’s debts - potentially resulting in a ban from acting as a company director - and can face criminal charges and jail if they are found to have acted dishonestly.

A spokesman for Mr Tinkler has been approached for comment.

Last week Patinack Farm avoided liquidation, settling a $259,866 claim brought by the NSW Office of State Revenue. It also settled a claim said to be worth “millions” by the tax office.

Mr Tinkler's main private company, Tinkler Group Holdings remains subject of wind-up proceedings.

 

[DSM5]

Hamster, I wouldn't bet on any 'bank guarantee' standing up to an insolvency/liquidation expert, or a bankruptcy court hearing. If the Knights are bundled into a corporate entity that Tinkler controls, and it would seem that they are, then they become just a chattel that's in the pool. I would imagine that would also include the aircraft that Uncle Benny uses to fly home to Brisbane on the weekends.

 

[Hamster Huey]

Hamster, I wouldn't bet on any 'bank guarantee' standing up to an insolvency/liquidation expert, or a bankruptcy court hearing. If the Knights are bundled into a corporate entity that Tinkler controls, and it would seem that they are, then they become just a chattel that's in the pool. I would imagine that would also include the aircraft that Uncle Benny uses to fly home to Brisbane on the weekends.

It's safe. Tinkler was forced to sign over the guarantee and can not move the Knights from the entity under which it operates.

It appears Tew did a lot of work to make the deal Tinkler-proof and it is why you are not hearing doom and gloom in the media (both tabloid or business) over the Knights future.

They'll get their $10mil (at worst if Tinkler survives past Dec 31) and then move into another community-based business model (debt free) and a return to sponsors that left when Tinkler moved in. And their fans should thank Tew for not ceding to Tinklers early aggressive demands and efforts to turn Joe Public against their initial stance.

 

[Jatz Crackers]

Tinker has more debts than we know of....and is almost trading insolvent...which, im not sure, but he can over in Singapore....Again not sure but he is gone from what I have heard today.....

How would you know he is almost trading insolvent ?

 

[Hamster Huey]

If Patinak goes (has) the rest will follow and the knights and Jets will have nothing secure.......goooooorne

Jets? Don't know.

$20mil is currently out of Tinklers reach in the bank until 31 Dec, then it goes down to ~$10mil in the new year.

Even if he's down the gurgler, the dollars held outside his reach will go to the Knights. I'm not aware of anything in the clauses which would allow the money to go elsewhere.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

If Patinak goes (has) the rest will follow and the knights and Jets will have nothing secure.......goooooorne

You would have to say this is close to the mark...I can't imagine the Knights are "secured creditors"

 

[Hamster Huey]

If Patinak goes (has) the rest will follow and the knights and Jets will have nothing secure.......goooooorne

You would have to say this is close to the mark...I can't imagine the Knights are "secured creditors"

They are in that the cash is in a bank already.

Did any of you guys actually follow the Knights 'battle' for ownership?!?!?

Given our interesting past I couldn't help but follow the Tinkler vs Tew/Burreston dealings. They did well to fight it out and actually get something in place to ensure Tinkler couldn't leave the club a financial wreck.

 

[wombatgc]

But Hamster is it actually safe from receivers and/or liquidators

as long as Xhamster doesn't go bankrupt....:s

 

[DSM5]

If Tinks goes under, then the hedge funds that backed his gambling has first dibs on the coin/assets followed by a list of creditors which would include banks, ATO etc. The Knights 'guarantee' would be in the mix with the Knights board standing in line for any cash that would be left over, and would depend on their place in the line. The team could also be considered as an asset, to be placed in the pot along with shares, horses, land, coal mines etc. Very messy.

 

[Jatz Crackers]

Tinker has more debts than we know of....and is almost trading insolvent...which, im not sure, but he can over in Singapore....Again not sure but he is gone from what I have heard today.....

How would you know he is almost trading insolvent ?

Oh sorry Jatz....how do you know he isnt....I just made a statement on what I have been told...dont like it...dont comment

Im not the one big noting himself about things he has no idea about.

I asked a simple question. I got the type of answer I thought I would get

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If Tinks goes under, then the hedge funds that backed his gambling has first dibs on the coin/assets followed by a list of creditors which would include banks, ATO etc. The Knights 'guarantee' would be in the mix with the Knights board standing in line for any cash that would be left over, and would depend on their place in the line. The team could also be considered as an asset, to be placed in the pot along with shares, horses, land, coal mines etc. Very messy.

I think the ATO comes 1st.

 

[Hamster Huey]

But Hamster is it actually safe from receivers and/or liquidators

Yes, it is. It is specifically held by the bank for only one purpose and that is for the business between Tinkler and the Knights. Tew and Burraston wisely ensured that the amount was not transferrable to any other Tinkler group/company and exists for the sole purpose of being paid directly to the Knights in the event that Tinklers businesses collapse.​

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If Tinks goes under, then the hedge funds that backed his gambling has first dibs on the coin/assets followed by a list of creditors which would include banks, ATO etc. The Knights 'guarantee' would be in the mix with the Knights board standing in line for any cash that would be left over, and would depend on their place in the line. The team could also be considered as an asset, to be placed in the pot along with shares, horses, land, coal mines etc. Very messy.

Wrong. As I keep stressing, this guarantee was not your standard 'IOU so stand in line' deal. It is monies that is immediately released to the Knights only, in the event of Tinkler (or authorised body) winding up TSG.

Most creditors have no such guarantee but the old board members had the nous to set it up specifically so that it can not be dragged back into any other financial dealings in the event of Tinkler being forced into insolvency/bankruptcy.

It was a very astute move by those guys, in the face of a hostile fanbase that had their anger fanned by Tinkler making statements such as, '...those guys didn't understand the deal,' when he first walked from the negotiations.

 

[Jatz Crackers]

If you say so frogz.

 

[manlyfan76]

If you say so frogz.

SNAP!

 

[ManlyBacker]

But Hamster is it actually safe from receivers and/or liquidators

Yes, it is. It is specifically held by the bank for only one purpose and that is for the business between Tinkler and the Knights. Tew and Burraston wisely ensured that the amount was not transferrable to any other Tinkler group/company and exists for the sole purpose of being paid directly to the Knights in the event that Tinklers businesses collapse.​

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If Tinks goes under, then the hedge funds that backed his gambling has first dibs on the coin/assets followed by a list of creditors which would include banks, ATO etc. The Knights 'guarantee' would be in the mix with the Knights board standing in line for any cash that would be left over, and would depend on their place in the line. The team could also be considered as an asset, to be placed in the pot along with shares, horses, land, coal mines etc. Very messy.

Wrong. As I keep stressing, this guarantee was not your standard 'IOU so stand in line' deal. It is monies that is immediately released to the Knights only, in the event of Tinkler (or authorised body) winding up TSG.

Most creditors have no such guarantee but the old board members had the nous to set it up specifically so that it can not be dragged back into any other financial dealings in the event of Tinkler being forced into insolvency/bankruptcy.

It was a very astute move by those guys, in the face of a hostile fanbase that had their anger fanned by Tinkler making statements such as, '...those guys didn't understand the deal,' when he first walked from the negotiations.

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AFAIK this is all correct. Equivalent of being held in a trust structure.

Patinack Farm Administration is only one of a number of his companies under the Tinkler Group that has control of his racing empire. All the same the entire house of cards looks very vulnerable as there are wind-up court cases pending against the parent company as well. Personally I hope he gets out of trouble as racing doesn't need a disaster of this scale.

 

[manlyfan76]

I'd love to see Newcastle really struggle in 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, and beyond. If that means Tinky stays or goes I'm not fussed.

 

[The Who]

Poor old fat Nate has had his private aircraft and helicopter repossed. Apparently this has dampened the Newcastle Knights planned marketing campaign to be the HIGH FLYERS of 2013!