the Voice, and God save our gracious etc etc

[SeaEagleRock8]

Quick quiz… How many of us here (proud Aussies one and all, presumably) are or have been British subjects?

Answer: all of us born before 1984 were British subjects up till the law was altered in 1984.
Whether you like it or not. Even though Australian federation took place way back in 1901.

Significance of that? Well obviously, many of us still identify as British. We’ve got King Charles as head of state, we’ve got the union jack on our flag, and obviously The King, His Majesty, is a figure of great reverence and respect in our country (with the possible exception of most of the country). As the sovereign of the United Kingdom, he embodies the ideals of duty, dignity, and tradition that have made our nation what it is today. Long may he reign. Yeah! Hmmm

Or alternatively, we could find significance in the fact our nation is incredibly new in the grander scheme of these things. Obviously the land and people are one and free not young and free. (Suddenly.) (We used to be young and free)

So one point to take out of all this is that so far as Australian traditions go, they are newish and evolving as we speak. so Let’s f off the Geoff Boycotts, Mike Gattings, Princes or Kings whether greenie or pedo, and keep working on improving this joint. Which to everyone except blind freddy will involve some formal acknowledgement of who lived here before the Brits. So if they want a Voice, that’s the least they deserve.

For what its worth I agree that the Voice is in danger of becoming reduced to a mere token. And yet symbolic gestures can be very significant. And if that is what our First Nations people are requesting, then why anyone would oppose this frankly is beyond me. As for the crackpot theories about how the Voice might be a trojan horse.. yes yes, I can see it now, all the indigenous billionaires will be able to use their influence to get lucrative mining licences or something … um, yeah, right.

 

[Brookie Bob]

I take it that this is a political call to action amongst Silvertails readers; it appears to be a left-leaning one (forgive me if I'm mistaken), and links Australia's participation with the historical UK / Commonwealth head of state (or monarchy) with the new 'Voice' initiative.

It appears that you're suggesting that the Voice proposal won't work unless Australians get rid of the monarchy. I can see that you've appealed to a sense of apparent irrefutable inherent fact and logic in each of us ('Which to everyone except blind freddy will involve some formal acknowledgement of who lived here before the Brits').

I'm trying to work out if you're trying to recruit Silvertails readers to a particular party, or echoing a particular party line, or just running some social justice thoughts up the flagpole to see who salutes.

I tip my hat to the 'kill to birds with one stone' ambition in your post; I'm wondering when the agenda may or will be expanded to:

• COVID-19 pandemic;
• migrants’ rights;
• labour rights;
• housing;
• Aboriginal rights (already covered);
• police violence; and
• capitalism and the class struggle.

(Is the radical left a threat to Australia’s security? - ABC Religion & Ethics )

 

[Red Pill]

Nice rally speech SER8, You should look to express your passions outside the forum as well if not already the case…
A suggestion if I may would be to somehow tie in the Manly NRL team into the narrative as it may appeal to a wider audience on the forum. Personally I am not sure how this would be possible but I would not doubt your ability to somehow do so….
Looking forward to seeing what kind of conversation this attracts.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

I take it that this is a political call to action amongst Silvertails readers; it appears to be a left-leaning one (forgive me if I'm mistaken), and links Australia's participation with the historical UK / Commonwealth head of state (or monarchy) with the new 'Voice' initiative.

It appears that you're suggesting that the Voice proposal won't work unless Australians get rid of the monarchy. I can see that you've appealed to a sense of apparent irrefutable inherent fact and logic in each of us ('Which to everyone except blind freddy will involve some formal acknowledgement of who lived here before the Brits').

I'm trying to work out if you're trying to recruit Silvertails readers to a particular party, or echoing a particular party line, or just running some social justice thoughts up the flagpole to see who salutes.

I tip my hat to the 'kill to birds with one stone' ambition in your post; I'm wondering when the agenda may or will be expanded to:

• COVID-19 pandemic;
• migrants’ rights;
• labour rights;
• housing;
• Aboriginal rights (already covered);
• police violence; and
• capitalism and the class struggle.

(Is the radical left a threat to Australia’s security? - ABC Religion & Ethics )

No not really any of that, just a few random thoughts provoked by a lot of the comments in the Australia Day thread. Does look rather random this morning, now that you mention it.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Looking forward to seeing what kind of conversation this attracts.

It's more the opposite, it is my reaction against comments (such as yours) in the Australia day thread.

 

[Red Pill]

It's more the opposite, it is my reaction against comments (such as yours) in the Australia day thread.

I understand. It appears you maybe other thinking it….though….

 

[Brookie Bob]

If it is an attempt (conscious or unconscious) to proselytize 'to the left' (proselytize, or Definition of PROSELYTIZE ), it's a brave one.

Looking at both Australia's Federal Government and many of the State Governments. it's the flavour of the month /year (and some will no doubt be hoping decade etc).

In saying that, it will probably get some traction, or may just pass unnoticed.

As someone who looks for balance in all things, I can't help wondering what reception a post that appears to proselytize on behalf of the right, or the monarchy, or religion may receive? Would they be banned by the moderators? Or not?

There is a degree of bias in all of us - that's the reason we're here, to celebrate our bias towards the Manly Sea Eagles. In society, there's obviously lots of shades of grey, things are seldom just black or white (no pun intended towards the 'Voice' debate).

As Isz has said, reading these thoughts has been 'enlightening' (I think Isz said that - or something like it).

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

As someone who looks for balance in all things,

I kind of agree with you, i thought there was pretty strong anti-Voice anti-change-the-date feel to the Aussie day thread so I just put this out for a bit of balance really.

 

[Woodsie]

This is the same amateur communist manifesto garbage that used to emanate from the red bookstore in Nth Manly in 1969/70.

To undermine a country undermine its history and culture .... introduce collective shame and quilt. ... radicalise the population against itself ....

Please ... what next .... America the great Satan ?

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

Those pushing this have to illustrate EXACTLY as to how this is going to work before I’ll consider changing my no vote.

There’s already an aboriginal voice to parliament ( 11 of them in fact ) and we already have ATSIC who heavily advises government, so why do we need more ??

Recognition in the constitution, absolutely , should of been done years ago.

But what we don’t need is more voices , at a potentially very large cost when we already have many voices.

BUT, tell me exactly how it’s going to work and I’ll at least consider it.

Until then, it’s just a feel good , vote grabber from the current government.

 

[Red Pill]

I kind of agree with you, i thought there was pretty strong anti-Voice anti-change-the-date feel to the Aussie day thread so I just put this out for a bit of balance really.

It does appear imo in doing this ( I btw felt there was balance from all sides) that you are distorting what you feel one side is representing to attempt to almost vilify it…..to rile people up again.
In saying this I did not see two clear black and white opinions expressed…but rather multiple view points.

 

[manly al]

Australia has changed a lot in recent decades , what is it now , something like 25 % of the population born overseas [ could even be more now ] Could be wrong but also thought i noticed somewhere where nearly half the population had at least one parent born overseas . Solid Anglo - Saxon heritage or background [which i have no connection with ] but that is all that it in essence and represents now , a heritage and for of its good and bad aspects . Being a republic and replacing the union jack part of the flag with a more Australian identified symbol should really have been instigated and happened some time ago but just a personal take , probably will be a natural progression but no timeline the way things seem at present . From my understanding the Uluru statement or concept of the voice was actually instigated by either the Morrison or Turnball government , a very extensive report provided to it and to respond to . Which i think did go through some processes and accepted in principal but not up to speed on that . Then pushed on a bit with the current federal government , the opposition just seem to be sniffing the political wind even though it was their original plan and concept . Again just seems like a quite harmless proposal to me , ATSIC was abolished years ago , 11 [ or something like that ] out of nearly 200 federal reps of indigenous background hardly seems like a major representation , As long as any alternative representative body has limited powers and is still totally answerable to the parliament and just in an advisory role . Anyway just in the historical sense , know that U K [ Poms ] left a good part of the Australian economy in a fairly precarious position when they joined the European common market and completely dumped or downgraded Australia trading wise without too much concern back in the day . British government objected to Curtin bringing its troops home to defend Australia [ and probably saved it from Japanese occupation [ or part ] Hardly having the countries best interests in any way . Others may see things differently but only can go on my understanding of details and again personal take .

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

If it is an attempt (conscious or unconscious) to proselytize 'to the left' (proselytize, or Definition of PROSELYTIZE ), it's a brave one.

Well spotted I’m recruiting for the Judean People’s Front. (Or maybe it’s the People’s Front of Judea? ah, something like that) #what-havetheRomans-everdoneforus?

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

This is the same amateur communist manifesto garbage that used to emanate from the red bookstore in Nth Manly in 1969/70.
To undermine a country undermine its history and culture .... introduce collective shame and quilt. ... radicalise the population against itself ....
Please ... what next .... America the great Satan ?

Oops are you losing your mojo? You forgot to suggest that I (and any whinging First Nations people supporting the Voice)(plus any other Satanic Aussies daring to favour a republic) piss off to Russia or China! Tsk tsk

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

It does appear imo in doing this ( I btw felt there was balance from all sides) that you are distorting what you feel one side is representing to attempt to almost vilify it…..to rile people up again.
In saying this I did not see two clear black and white opinions expressed…but rather multiple view points.

Of course but if you saw balanced commentary from all sides and multiple view points then ... why would you worry that anyone would be riled up??
Your comments are a bit puzzling at times

 

[Red Pill]

Australia has changed a lot in recent decades , what is it now , something like 25 % of the population born overseas [ could even be more now ] Could be wrong but also thought i noticed somewhere where nearly half the population had at least one parent born overseas . Solid Anglo - Saxon heritage or background [which i have no connection with ] but that is all that it in essence and represents now , a heritage and for of its good and bad aspects . Being a republic and replacing the union jack part of the flag with a more Australian identified symbol should really have been instigated and happened some time ago but just a personal take , probably will be a natural progression but no timeline the way things seem at present . From my understanding the Uluru statement or concept of the voice was actually instigated by either the Morrison or Turnball government , a very extensive report provided to it and to respond to . Which i think did go through some processes and accepted in principal but not up to speed on that . Then pushed on a bit with the current federal government , the opposition just seem to be sniffing the political wind even though it was their original plan and concept . Again just seems like a quite harmless proposal to me , ATSIC was abolished years ago , 11 [ or something like that ] out of nearly 200 federal reps of indigenous background hardly seems like a major representation , As long as any alternative representative body has limited powers and is still totally answerable to the parliament and just in an advisory role . Anyway just in the historical sense , know that U K [ Poms ] left a good part of the Australian economy in a fairly precarious position when they joined the European common market and completely dumped or downgraded Australia trading wise without too much concern back in the day . British government objected to Curtin bringing its troops home to defend Australia [ and probably saved it from Japanese occupation [ or part ] Hardly having the countries best interests in any way . Others may see things differently but only can go on my understanding of details and again personal take .

When you look back at history it is fair to say as so called parents of this nation ( Australia) England now part of the UK would be rated as somewhat dysfunctional parents. Children of bad parents who make it in life don’t necessarily worry about changing their parents and in a lot of cases not even their names because it is only symbolic.

From my understanding of the last referendum the strongest argument and most likely the prevailing one was that our current system ( the system itself works) and the case for change other than our growing distancing from traditional England did not offer a better systematic alternative other than being potentially problematic…

I btw personally don’t care much for the English monarchy.

 

[BOZO]

Those pushing this have to illustrate EXACTLY as to how this is going to work before I’ll consider changing my no vote.

When you vote consider the Wogs feathered friend

 

[Red Pill]

Of course but if you saw balanced commentary from all sides and multiple view points then ... why would you worry that anyone would be riled up??
Your comments are a bit puzzling at times

I am seriously not worried at all 😂 just pointing out how you tend to distort the views of others for affect to assist in the riling so to speak…

 

[Woodsie]

Oops are you losing your mojo? You forgot to suggest that I (and any whinging First Nations people supporting the Voice)(plus any other Satanic Aussies daring to favour a republic) piss off to Russia or China! Tsk tsk

There you go again .. just making stuff up ...

I have not mentioned, or accused indigenous people of whinging in any post I have made .. nor have I said a derogatory word against them ..

It is no wonder Red Pill has such a poor opinion of your "debating" style ... just make shiite up and accuse your opponent of it ..

And for your info ... I am more than happy to have a republic ... but not because of some childish dislike of the royal family ... or guilt over our magnificent british history ... but because it is time.

 

[BOZO]

And for your info ... I am more than happy to have a republic ... but not because of some childish dislike of the royal family ... or guilt over our magnificent british history ... but because it is time.

Yes Feathered friend it is time

And The time has come for our New King to Rule Supreme

God save the King who has a bit of Greek Blood in him