The BIGgest defensive flaw

[maxta]

Manly have many defensive issues from line speed....allowing crazy momentum and quick play the balls....ridiculous amount of offloads and just simple hand grabs and arm tackles, but I feel the main contribution to all of the above comes from the first and most important / The initial Contact.
Just watching these heavyweight teams tonight, you see the initial contact and I mean shoulder contact, is full of intent and aggression, while the more average teams like Manly, are so passive in comparison
Then I was thinking about our last "successful " sides with the likes of Watmough, Kennedy , Matai....maybe an unfair comparison but the old saying "Goid defence wins games" is very accurate since I've been around footy.
This powerful contact does everything from create errors, stop momentum, force errors and also has the attackers put off their game.
Anyways, hoping the home game tomorrow can bring out some aggressive contact, because Fins maybe not a top 4 side, but if allowed to offload, which they will off soft contact, will rack up a big score

 

[Ranga]

Couldn’t agree more, Maxta. It’s why I am a huge fan of JFH as he leads the line speed and makes heavy first contact. Penrith’s line speed has been the catalyst for their success, as much as anything else.

 

[HK_Eagle]

My kingdom for a Cement Gillespie

 

[Brookie1973]

What is this line speed ye speak of? Some new fangled tactic? Will never catch on.

 

[maxta]

What is this line speed ye speak of? Some new fangled tactic? Will never catch on.

Getting your defensive line up quickly after the opposition plays the ball, cutting off the momentum stopping them getting any momentum, forcing errors, beating them into submission, also often leading to a poor kick and sets up good field position for us ....
Hey wait a sec, your taking the pi** 🧐
I get it Brookie1973 😅

 

[Brookie1973]

Getting your defensive line up quickly after the opposition plays the ball, cutting off the momentum stopping them getting any momentum, forcing errors, beating them into submission, also often leading to a poor kick and sets up good field position for us ....
Hey wait a sec, your taking the pi** 🧐
I get it Brookie1973 😅

It’s not the Manly Way. Just get the ball to our weapons. Who needs line speed.

 

[Ranga]

What is this line speed ye speak of? Some new fangled tactic? Will never catch on.

It’s not one of the weapons Seibs has stocked in the armoury. He should place an order.

 

[sheridanstand78]

They always say that defence is all about attitude and resilience and our current team folds like a cheap tent when attacked, this has to be a big focus in the off season!!

 

[manlyfan76]

Manly have many defensive issues from line speed....allowing crazy momentum and quick play the balls....ridiculous amount of offloads and just simple hand grabs and arm tackles, but I feel the main contribution to all of the above comes from the first and most important / The initial Contact.
Just watching these heavyweight teams tonight, you see the initial contact and I mean shoulder contact, is full of intent and aggression, while the more average teams like Manly, are so passive in comparison
Then I was thinking about our last "successful " sides with the likes of Watmough, Kennedy , Matai....maybe an unfair comparison but the old saying "Goid defence wins games" is very accurate since I've been around footy.
This powerful contact does everything from create errors, stop momentum, force errors and also has the attackers put off their game.
Anyways, hoping the home game tomorrow can bring out some aggressive contact, because Fins maybe not a top 4 side, but if allowed to offload, which they will off soft contact, will rack up a big score

Yup.
We have in defence.
Its got worse as season went along. Arm grabs are all we can muster.

Attitude is so poor and that's where defence starts.
Next year they will just be older and slower.

 

[HK_Eagle]

They always say that defence is all about attitude and resilience and our current team folds like a cheap tent when attacked, this has to be a big focus in the off season!!

Are we prepared to invest in a coach who is willing to set standards from the very first contact with the club?

 

[Phobia]

Our line speed since 2022 has statistically been the worst in the NRL.

This might have changed, but from 2022-2024 we also paired this with the least post-contact metres allowed, of any team.

I don't think that balance has worked. We're not willing to win the mental side of the game, the old simple "we're going to bash you".

Jakey adds a lot in this dimension IMO. People love their missed tackle stats, but one Jake T tackle is worth ten Jake Simpkin tackles IMO, for these reasons Maxta provided. We simply don't win the contact.

 

[bob dylan]

Anyone care to have a look at how the markers worked in last nights games.

Compare that to Manly. Our players are coached to use it as a rest period or opportunity to catch your breath.

 

[maxta]

Anyone care to have a look at how the markers worked in last nights games.

Compare that to Manly. Our players are coached to use it as a rest period or opportunity to catch your breath.

Very true bob, plus again due to losing the collision, the Manly defenders are still on the ground or getting into position...even offside and out of play, as the dummy half has already taken off and blown up the middle and we know what happens out wide from there....it's just a snowball of horror and hopefully they are up for today, or these Fins will offload with ease and 1 thing about the them...when they get a roll on can rack up points, even against a far superior defensive side like the Dogs

 

[voicefromthehill]

Very true bob, plus again due to losing the collision, the Manly defenders are still on the ground or getting into position...even offside and out of play, as the dummy half has already taken off and blown up the middle and we know what happens out wide from there....it's just a snowball of horror and hopefully they are up for today, or these Fins will offload with ease and 1 thing about the them...when they get a roll on can rack up points, even against a far superior defensive side like the Dogs

This is also a symptom of the way different teams are officiated.

Why do some teams manage to lay in the ruck?
Why do some teams have incredible line speed and rarely pinged?
Why do other teams not get away with the above?

The answer is absolutely dominance and the ref is also biased (probably wrong word) towards it. Why do some players seem to get away with murder and someone like Jake gets pinged for sneezing... Certainly those that take a defensive load are going to be penalised more, but that perpetuates in the referees mind and they look for them

The result is they get a little more hesitant to avoid the penalty, and then momentum swings.

Is the solution to get a more balanced defensive team? drop the speedster and get a few more solid contribtuors in the backs (Matai and Jorge Tafua come to mind)

 

[mave]

Maybe don't have a bunch of 30 plus plodders as your pack and line speed will improve and ruck domination will be more likely.

 

[voicefromthehill]

Are we prepared to invest in a coach who is willing to set standards from the very first contact with the club?

Interesting question put forward, not entirely sure of the answer. But it reminded me of a Netflix doco I just watched about the Dallas Cowboys dynasty.

One of the key themes that was woven through it was the distinctly different coaching styles the players experienced. Standards were set in a different style, some responded others didn't

They both had success, but underpinning that was the "cattle" at their disposal. One was an absolute drill master and the QB worked well with him, the other expected professionals to be professionals - wasn't a demonstrative "yeller and screamer". They also won, but that was despite the split between QB and coach, it ultimately was the other players that dragged them to the Super Bowl win.

Lets see next year when the coach has a new half and hopefully a full team

 

[LeonardCohen]

Manly have many defensive issues from line speed....allowing crazy momentum and quick play the balls....ridiculous amount of offloads and just simple hand grabs and arm tackles, but I feel the main contribution to all of the above comes from the first and most important / The initial Contact.
Just watching these heavyweight teams tonight, you see the initial contact and I mean shoulder contact, is full of intent and aggression, while the more average teams like Manly, are so passive in comparison
Then I was thinking about our last "successful " sides with the likes of Watmough, Kennedy , Matai....maybe an unfair comparison but the old saying "Goid defence wins games" is very accurate since I've been around footy.
This powerful contact does everything from create errors, stop momentum, force errors and also has the attackers put off their game.
Anyways, hoping the home game tomorrow can bring out some aggressive contact, because Fins maybe not a top 4 side, but if allowed to offload, which they will off soft contact, will rack up a big score

Yeah I’ve been noticing the contact has been poor. Simpkin is not a great defensive 9 and is typically dominated. The rest of our middle is pretty mediocre with contact too. TKO can hit but also gives away penalties. The rest are bog average. It’s definitely an area to improve. We also give up meekly in the wrestle, whereas Dogs will force you back and make you scrap for every metre.

However, I don’t think it’s a method that we need to tweak; we just have pretty crap forwards. All the teams use the same coaching methodology for tackling but we’ve got pretty sluggish forwards that gas easily and that’s when the contact and line speed drop off after the first 10 minutes of games.