Sponsors - ruffled feathers
- Thread starter Matabele
- Start date
Ryan
Journey Man
Crap on Byso.
1. Nab was never a sponsor when I got banned;
2. I was talking sponsorship because we were trying to organise a major one. You just weren't involved in the discussions everyone was having at the time, so wouldn't know.
Don't sugarcoat an armed hold up. Relative or not, it's just not cool.
1. Nab was never a sponsor when I got banned;
2. I was talking sponsorship because we were trying to organise a major one. You just weren't involved in the discussions everyone was having at the time, so wouldn't know.
Don't sugarcoat an armed hold up. Relative or not, it's just not cool.
G
Guest
Guest
Ryan Ryan Ryan. Mate you just don't understand what a mortgage broker is all about. Let me correct a few misconceptions that you obviously have about brokers.
Anyone considering taking out a loan or wanting to check that their existing loan is being charged a good interest rate would be mad to go to a bank instead of a broker.
For example assume a client goes to their Bank the NAB and speaks to the local home loan manager at manly branch to borrow a $2m home loan. Firstly that person probably has at all of 3 months experience in lending and usually english is not their first language (in jest).
Secondly they will tell the client that NAB can offer a discount of 0.70% discount off their standard variable rate. If the client is an idiot they will accept when they tell them that they cannot get a better interest rate elsewhere.
However if the client is smart they will contact 2 or 3 brokers in the area and find out that they can obtain a 1% interest rate concession from either CBA or St george.
The client can obtain a 0.25% better interest rate going through a broker than his own Branch. Believe me it happens all the time. And it doesn't cost the client a cent as the bank pays the broker direct from its profit (ie the commission payment is not passed on to the client in any way). The client has also saved themselves countless hours of investigating what other lenders have to offer of they tried to do it themselves.
If you think that a $2m loan is unrealistic then asume the client wants a $300 loan instead. He goes to his NAB branch and is offered the choice of a professional package with an interest rate of 7.62% pa and a $375 annual fee or a basic loan @7.87% pa.
The same client then goes to a broker who says that ING can give him an interest rate of 7,54% pa or Heritage Building Society at 7,45% pa. the client takles the cheaper loan which also comes with no ongoing fees.
Your comment about brokers putting clients with lenders who pay the most commision is absolute crap. 85-90% of my clients want to deal with the 5 major banks. The other 10-15% deal with lenders such as heritage, ING, Ciitibank, Bankwest and Suncorp.
All of the lenders that I have mentioned pay exactly the same commission rates so there is no benefit to me as a broker to put my client with any one particular lender. I simply put the client to who has the best rate and product features that the client wants.
The lenders who offer higher commissions are generally the second tier lenders such as Liberty, Bluestone etc who deal with clients who are discharged bankrupts and who have numerous defaults on their credit history. They offer higher commissions as they charge their clients nterest rates of 8-10%.
Another benefit of clients dealing with a broker is that we are their bank manager for as long as we are still a broker (I have been a broker for the past 10 years and will probably be for another 10 at least).
Being with NAB you know how often you get moved around from branch to branch. How many times have you come accross clients who said that they had a great relationship with their bank manager until the Bank moved him/her.
The new manager is a dickhead and the client then starts to look at taking his business elsewhere. I still deal with clients that I dealt with 15 years ago in the Bank. They deal with me because they know that I get them the best deals that I can.
There are many great brokers on the northern beaches and my clients wouldn't deal with a bank lender direct ever again. I would say without a doubt that the majority of my clients have received a better interest rate from me than they would have by going direct to a bank. They have also received better service and can deal with someone who knows their financial situation.
There ends your lesson in mortgage brokers. I hope that you now have a better undestanding as to how we work. 😀
G
Guest
Guest
Ha ha. Not likely. I have been a mortgage broker for many years and am very happy to continue as I am.
What I am saying is 2 things. In my opinion their pay structure to try and attract quality brokers is wrong (based on what i was told the structure was). You pay peanuts in this game and you get monkeys.
Secondly for the club to allow a mortgage broking company access to its name and membership data base for a 15% payment on turnover is far too cheap in my opinion.
The percentages that Mellonhead has stated are correct. Work the numbers out and you can understand why a broker being paid a flat fee on the upftont payment received from the lender will not work. The broker must be paid a percentage of the income - 50% or 60% of the total income as a minumum to be able to atract any sort of quality people.
The club only receiving 15% of the turnover to me seems very cheap and it should have been 30% as a minimum. I am not sure if they also own a percentage of Sea Eagles Home loans as well because I hope that they do and the real value in broking is the size of the loan book and the trail income being received.
Mortgage Choice is the best example. The company is publicly listed and is probably worth hundreds of millions of dollars. Say its loan book is $18 billion dollarsand then work out what the trail income of 0.25% pa would be on that. Even after paying its broker it is serious money.
Mortgage Choice is not the best payer to its brokers however they pay percentages of trail and upfronts received from the lenders. By doing that it atrtacted good quality brokers over the years and was able to grow its loan book quickly.
This is what the club needs to do to get value out of letting someone market to its client base. And remember it is the clubs client base and therefore they should be receiving the majority of the income and not sea eagles home loans owners.
Ryan
Journey Man
Ryan Ryan Ryan. Mate you just don't understand what a mortgage broker is all about. Let me correct a few misconceptions that you obviously have about brokers.
Anyone considering taking out a loan or wanting to check that their existing loan is being charged a good interest rate would be mad to go to a bank instead of a broker.
For example assume a client goes to their Bank the NAB and speaks to the local home loan manager at manly branch to borrow a $2m home loan. Firstly that person probably has at all of 3 months experience in lending and usually english is not their first language (in jest).
Secondly they will tell the client that NAB can offer a discount of 0.70% discount off their standard variable rate. If the client is an idiot they will accept when they tell them that they cannot get a better interest rate elsewhere.
However if the client is smart they will contact 2 or 3 brokers in the area and find out that they can obtain a 1% interest rate concession from either CBA or St george.
The client can obtain a 0.25% better interest rate going through a broker than his own Branch. Believe me it happens all the time. And it doesn't cost the client a cent as the bank pays the broker direct from its profit (ie the commission payment is not passed on to the client in any way). The client has also saved themselves countless hours of investigating what other lenders have to offer of they tried to do it themselves.
If you think that a $2m loan is unrealistic then asume the client wants a $300 loan instead. He goes to his NAB branch and is offered the choice of a professional package with an interest rate of 7.62% pa and a $375 annual fee or a basic loan @7.87% pa.
The same client then goes to a broker who says that ING can give him an interest rate of 7,54% pa or Heritage Building Society at 7,45% pa. the client takles the cheaper loan which also comes with no ongoing fees.
Your comment about brokers putting clients with lenders who pay the most commision is absolute crap. 85-90% of my clients want to deal with the 5 major banks. The other 10-15% deal with lenders such as heritage, ING, Ciitibank, Bankwest and Suncorp.
All of the lenders that I have mentioned pay exactly the same commission rates so there is no benefit to me as a broker to put my client with any one particular lender. I simply put the client to who has the best rate and product features that the client wants.
The lenders who offer higher commissions are generally the second tier lenders such as Liberty, Bluestone etc who deal with clients who are discharged bankrupts and who have numerous defaults on their credit history. They offer higher commissions as they charge their clients nterest rates of 8-10%.
Another benefit of clients dealing with a broker is that we are their bank manager for as long as we are still a broker (I have been a broker for the past 10 years and will probably be for another 10 at least).
Being with NAB you know how often you get moved around from branch to branch. How many times have you come accross clients who said that they had a great relationship with their bank manager until the Bank moved him/her.
The new manager is a dickhead and the client then starts to look at taking his business elsewhere. I still deal with clients that I dealt with 15 years ago in the Bank. They deal with me because they know that I get them the best deals that I can.
There are many great brokers on the northern beaches and my clients wouldn't deal with a bank lender direct ever again. I would say without a doubt that the majority of my clients have received a better interest rate from me than they would have by going direct to a bank. They have also received better service and can deal with someone who knows their financial situation.
There ends your lesson in mortgage brokers. I hope that you now have a better undestanding as to how we work. 😀
[/quote]
Your lesson is substantially flawed Fro.
Like it or not, Nab has the biggest Market Share in its lending book in Australia, and now growing overseas. Guess what. We don't pay ANY trailer !!! Whilst Broker business is a necessary evil, we are encouraged to get the referral from word of mouth. By outastanding service. Your clients are chasing the buck, our clients are chasing a working relation, a partnership if you will inhelping them achieve their financial goals and aspirations. We don't give loans. We give a valued proposition that secures families in worst case scenarios should they arise.
We build our business on Relationship Management. About understanding our client.
I had this broker phone me and say excitedly, "I have a 3 million dollar deal for you" (I won't talk to someone unless they require a minimum of 2 million). I said to this Broker, ok, give me the guys name, address and number, and I will go out, take the guy to lunch, and address his overall needs. The broker was dumbfounded. "what, your phoning the CUSTOMER?" he said. "Yes", I replied. The broker then told me that he doesn't work that way. I told him that I will not be working with him ever again. (Mind you - I'm a corporate Relationship Manager).
Mate, I proudly say I am one of the better bankers going around in my market. It's a very, VERY rare situation that arises where pricing comes into our conversation. If a customer asks about rate, then our business is flawed. They don't see a value add.
Put it this way mate. Your clients are rate shoppers. That's all they care about. Go ahead and refer them to Rams. Let the US market dictate their viability. Refer them to Pyramid. Enough said there.
Frankly - we don't want them.
The clients you speak to are basically going to market and buying a Hyundai. The players in my market, are driving a Bentley V12 Classic. Price isn't a question. Quality is what it is about with Nab.
I say this as a proud employee of the biggest financial institution and tax paying company in Australia.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Byso - I have had a chat to Grant Mayer about this, and this is all I will tell you, as you like to twist and turn things in the thesaurus known and BysoWord way you do. I had 2 big wigs go out and visit the previous CEO Pat Wilson last year, with a very open mind about becoming the major sponsor of The Sea Eagles.
Hence to say the "pitch" wasn't appreciated.
Those that I consider a friend know the rest of the story, but hence to say I was dissapointed in the outcome (and yes this will be revisited I hope with Mr Mayer - as I know he will turn things around), and this is why I carried on. Not because I was banned from MSE you imbecile.
nodd
Bencher
No offence Ryan, but I had a very bad experience with NAB in regards to our home loan and will never do bussiness with them again. I will always go through a broker from now on. Maybe that's what NAB's problem is - they are after the Bentley owner and don't give a rat's about us Hyundai (or mazda ****heap in my case) owners?
Ryan Ryan Ryan. Mate you just don't understand what a mortgage broker is all about. Let me correct a few misconceptions that you obviously have about brokers.
Anyone considering taking out a loan or wanting to check that their existing loan is being charged a good interest rate would be mad to go to a bank instead of a broker.
For example assume a client goes to their Bank the NAB and speaks to the local home loan manager at manly branch to borrow a $2m home loan. Firstly that person probably has at all of 3 months experience in lending and usually english is not their first language (in jest).
Secondly they will tell the client that NAB can offer a discount of 0.70% discount off their standard variable rate. If the client is an idiot they will accept when they tell them that they cannot get a better interest rate elsewhere.
However if the client is smart they will contact 2 or 3 brokers in the area and find out that they can obtain a 1% interest rate concession from either CBA or St george.
The client can obtain a 0.25% better interest rate going through a broker than his own Branch. Believe me it happens all the time. And it doesn't cost the client a cent as the bank pays the broker direct from its profit (ie the commission payment is not passed on to the client in any way). The client has also saved themselves countless hours of investigating what other lenders have to offer of they tried to do it themselves.
If you think that a $2m loan is unrealistic then asume the client wants a $300 loan instead. He goes to his NAB branch and is offered the choice of a professional package with an interest rate of 7.62% pa and a $375 annual fee or a basic loan @7.87% pa.
The same client then goes to a broker who says that ING can give him an interest rate of 7,54% pa or Heritage Building Society at 7,45% pa. the client takles the cheaper loan which also comes with no ongoing fees.
Your comment about brokers putting clients with lenders who pay the most commision is absolute crap. 85-90% of my clients want to deal with the 5 major banks. The other 10-15% deal with lenders such as heritage, ING, Ciitibank, Bankwest and Suncorp.
All of the lenders that I have mentioned pay exactly the same commission rates so there is no benefit to me as a broker to put my client with any one particular lender. I simply put the client to who has the best rate and product features that the client wants.
The lenders who offer higher commissions are generally the second tier lenders such as Liberty, Bluestone etc who deal with clients who are discharged bankrupts and who have numerous defaults on their credit history. They offer higher commissions as they charge their clients nterest rates of 8-10%.
Another benefit of clients dealing with a broker is that we are their bank manager for as long as we are still a broker (I have been a broker for the past 10 years and will probably be for another 10 at least).
Being with NAB you know how often you get moved around from branch to branch. How many times have you come accross clients who said that they had a great relationship with their bank manager until the Bank moved him/her.
The new manager is a dickhead and the client then starts to look at taking his business elsewhere. I still deal with clients that I dealt with 15 years ago in the Bank. They deal with me because they know that I get them the best deals that I can.
There are many great brokers on the northern beaches and my clients wouldn't deal with a bank lender direct ever again. I would say without a doubt that the majority of my clients have received a better interest rate from me than they would have by going direct to a bank. They have also received better service and can deal with someone who knows their financial situation.
There ends your lesson in mortgage brokers. I hope that you now have a better undestanding as to how we work. 😀
[/quote]
Your lesson is substantially flawed Fro.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[/quote]
WTF are you on about Ryan, Its got nothing to do with me.
Ryan
Journey Man
Wrong mate. Read what I said again. CLIENTS are Hyundai's or Bentleys...
The service available is what I'm talking about.
Also, there are various streams for feedback nodd. You should have contacted the bank and asked for a different Banker (I don't know your situation).
I repeat though, I can only talk about my specific stream of clients..I deal with large corporates. I used to write Home Loans 5 years ago.....frankly - they aren't profitable. I actually believe some people think that when we charge someone 7.57% interest, that we actually get 7.57% interest. We actually go to market, and borrow the money to give to you. Then staff salary, plus other costs are built in.
The Bank makes money from (melbourne debacle not withstanding) treasury dealing and off shore investment for example.
Also, nodd, admittedly mate, we are not perfect. BUT, we are trying to improve, and get in touvh with our clients. It's dissapointing to hear stories like yours, but we are always asking for feedback on how to improve.
Example:-
I can be promoted within the Bank now, but retain my clients, so a large corporate can now have the same Banker, for many, many years - and that was one of the biggest problems according to you all - we have changed it because of that feedback.
Ryan
Journey Man
Ryan Ryan Ryan. Mate you just don't understand what a mortgage broker is all about. Let me correct a few misconceptions that you obviously have about brokers.
Anyone considering taking out a loan or wanting to check that their existing loan is being charged a good interest rate would be mad to go to a bank instead of a broker.
For example assume a client goes to their Bank the NAB and speaks to the local home loan manager at manly branch to borrow a $2m home loan. Firstly that person probably has at all of 3 months experience in lending and usually english is not their first language (in jest).
Secondly they will tell the client that NAB can offer a discount of 0.70% discount off their standard variable rate. If the client is an idiot they will accept when they tell them that they cannot get a better interest rate elsewhere.
However if the client is smart they will contact 2 or 3 brokers in the area and find out that they can obtain a 1% interest rate concession from either CBA or St george.
The client can obtain a 0.25% better interest rate going through a broker than his own Branch. Believe me it happens all the time. And it doesn't cost the client a cent as the bank pays the broker direct from its profit (ie the commission payment is not passed on to the client in any way). The client has also saved themselves countless hours of investigating what other lenders have to offer of they tried to do it themselves.
If you think that a $2m loan is unrealistic then asume the client wants a $300 loan instead. He goes to his NAB branch and is offered the choice of a professional package with an interest rate of 7.62% pa and a $375 annual fee or a basic loan @7.87% pa.
The same client then goes to a broker who says that ING can give him an interest rate of 7,54% pa or Heritage Building Society at 7,45% pa. the client takles the cheaper loan which also comes with no ongoing fees.
Your comment about brokers putting clients with lenders who pay the most commision is absolute crap. 85-90% of my clients want to deal with the 5 major banks. The other 10-15% deal with lenders such as heritage, ING, Ciitibank, Bankwest and Suncorp.
All of the lenders that I have mentioned pay exactly the same commission rates so there is no benefit to me as a broker to put my client with any one particular lender. I simply put the client to who has the best rate and product features that the client wants.
The lenders who offer higher commissions are generally the second tier lenders such as Liberty, Bluestone etc who deal with clients who are discharged bankrupts and who have numerous defaults on their credit history. They offer higher commissions as they charge their clients nterest rates of 8-10%.
Another benefit of clients dealing with a broker is that we are their bank manager for as long as we are still a broker (I have been a broker for the past 10 years and will probably be for another 10 at least).
Being with NAB you know how often you get moved around from branch to branch. How many times have you come accross clients who said that they had a great relationship with their bank manager until the Bank moved him/her.
The new manager is a dickhead and the client then starts to look at taking his business elsewhere. I still deal with clients that I dealt with 15 years ago in the Bank. They deal with me because they know that I get them the best deals that I can.
There are many great brokers on the northern beaches and my clients wouldn't deal with a bank lender direct ever again. I would say without a doubt that the majority of my clients have received a better interest rate from me than they would have by going direct to a bank. They have also received better service and can deal with someone who knows their financial situation.
There ends your lesson in mortgage brokers. I hope that you now have a better undestanding as to how we work. 😀
[/quote]
Your lesson is substantially flawed Fro.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[/quote]
WTF are you on about Ryan, Its got nothing to do with me.
[/quote]
Ooops - hehehehe - sorry mate - I get in the zone and all that. Very passionate about this subject.
Ryan
Journey Man
Yup - I feel like a right twat now !! Tried to sound all very knowledgeable and all that....
I'M TALKING TO THE COMPLETELY ****ING WRONG PERSON !!!
:lol: :lol: :lol:
[/quote]
Don't worry mate. It's what we'd all expect from a major.
[/quote]
Where's the thumbs up emoticon when you need it.
I'm actually now just waiting for Byso to dip back in in his antagonistic way he does. Here Byso, you'll be able to vut and paste this --- 😉
nodd
Bencher
Wrong mate. Read what I said again. CLIENTS are Hyundai's or Bentleys...
The service available is what I'm talking about.
Also, there are various streams for feedback nodd. You should have contacted the bank and asked for a different Banker (I don't know your situation).
I repeat though, I can only talk about my specific stream of clients..I deal with large corporates. I used to write Home Loans 5 years ago.....frankly - they aren't profitable. I actually believe some people think that when we charge someone 7.57% interest, that we actually get 7.57% interest. We actually go to market, and borrow the money to give to you. Then staff salary, plus other costs are built in.
The Bank makes money from (melbourne debacle not withstanding) treasury dealing and off shore investment for example.
Also, nodd, admittedly mate, we are not perfect. BUT, we are trying to improve, and get in touvh with our clients. It's dissapointing to hear stories like yours, but we are always asking for feedback on how to improve.
Example:-
I can be promoted within the Bank now, but retain my clients, so a large corporate can now have the same Banker, for many, many years - and that was one of the biggest problems according to you all - we have changed it because of that feedback.
[/quote]
Either way you care more about one rather than the other! Aren't you supposed to treat all customers equal.
Don't worry they got plenty of "feedback" after 3 years of continual stuffups and poor service. I thought maybe it was just the branch and personnel we were dealing with that was the problem but after talking to others it wasn't just this branch that I have heard complaints about.
All that said this all happened about 7 years ago , so maybe things have changed. It still won't be enough for them to get my bussiness ever again, although the amounts I am involved with, it probably won't worry them in the slightest.
G
Guest
Guest
Your lesson is substantially flawed Fro.
Like it or not, Nab has the biggest Market Share in its lending book in Australia, and now growing overseas. Guess what. We don't pay ANY trailer !!! Whilst Broker business is a necessary evil, we are encouraged to get the referral from word of mouth. By outastanding service. Your clients are chasing the buck, our clients are chasing a working relation, a partnership if you will inhelping them achieve their financial goals and aspirations. We don't give loans. We give a valued proposition that secures families in worst case scenarios should they arise.
We build our business on Relationship Management. About understanding our client.
I had this broker phone me and say excitedly, "I have a 3 million dollar deal for you" (I won't talk to someone unless they require a minimum of 2 million). I said to this Broker, ok, give me the guys name, address and number, and I will go out, take the guy to lunch, and address his overall needs. The broker was dumbfounded. "what, your phoning the CUSTOMER?" he said. "Yes", I replied. The broker then told me that he doesn't work that way. I told him that I will not be working with him ever again. (Mind you - I'm a corporate Relationship Manager).
Mate, I proudly say I am one of the better bankers going around in my market. It's a very, VERY rare situation that arises where pricing comes into our conversation. If a customer asks about rate, then our business is flawed. They don't see a value add.
Put it this way mate. Your clients are rate shoppers. That's all they care about. Go ahead and refer them to Rams. Let the US market dictate their viability. Refer them to Pyramid. Enough said there.
Frankly - we don't want them.
The clients you speak to are basically going to market and buying a Hyundai. The players in my market, are driving a Bentley V12 Classic. Price isn't a question. Quality is what it is about with Nab.
I say this as a proud employee of the biggest financial institution and tax paying company in Australia.
[/quote]
Wow. Talk about being totally brainwashed by the corporate culture at NAB.
You talk about NAB having the biggest assets/loan book etc etc, The only thing that bank MD's care about these days is their share price.
And where is NAB's share price? It used to be the highest of all the Bank but is now miles below that of the CBA. CBA has the biggest home loan book of any bank.
You may be a good banker and I don't doubt that. I worked for 15 years in Busines banking and corporate banking in CBA and I too provided great service to my clients and I still do but now as a mortgage broker. I don't pretend that I am the worlds greatest mortgage broker. Never have been and never will be. I just try and do my best for my clients both in interest rates and service.
The fundamental difference between out two posts is that you are talking about your business banking clients and I am talking about my clients who are predominantly home loan clients.
As you know there are two entirely differents sets of clients with different needs. Home loans are a essentially a mass produced commodity with clients who generally only want the best rate. Your clients are business banking clients who demand day to day service.
But you cannot tell me that your clients do not care what interest rate they are being charged. I know that they still want and demand the best rate.
Any businessman who doesn't ask his lender for the best rate is a fool. I understand what you are saying that because you have a great relationship with your clients that they don;t shop around for the best deal. But your clients still expect you to do give them the best deal.
Your attitude towards brokers is clearly hostile and forunately you are a shrinking minority these days. Most of your type work for NAB (other banks have worked hard to improve the relationship between branch staff and brokers so that we are seen as friendly and not competitors) who is the one major lender who has still not not acepted that they need to work with brokers because we are here to stay whether you like it or not.
Mortgage brokers provide between 40-50% of all home loans written to the major banks. Homeside/NAB is around 30% and shrinking. The other 4 major bank's are also receiving more commercial applications from brokers.
The reason that they do so is not money but it is because they value the relationship with good brokers and realise that they can work together and everybody wins.
Myself and a lot of other brokers I know won't refer business to NAB commercial because NAB bankers do all they can to break the clients relationship with a client and they destroy the relationship.
Why would we send our client there?
Not sure what your comment about RAMS is doing because I didn't mention RAMS anywhere. In fact I have never put one client to RAMS since I have been a mortgage broker because I was aware of their funding issues years ago when I worked for them for a short time.
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