Single biggest issue…

The single biggest issue holding Manly back is:

  • Tom’s injuries

    Votes: 23 17.3%
  • Lack of forward mobility and leg speed

    Votes: 41 30.8%
  • Dessie’s coaching (structures, use of bench, etc.)

    Votes: 20 15.0%
  • Overall team fitness and conditioning

    Votes: 19 14.3%
  • DCE’s leadership and/or contract size

    Votes: 17 12.8%
  • Lack of genuine 9/threat around the ruck

    Votes: 13 9.8%

  • Total voters
    133
First Grader
I can see why @Pete W feels embarrassed by his association with the club. It's not something that I feel myself. I will always be proud to be a Manly supporter. However, I am embarrassed by some of the recent decisions made by club management. An obvious example is Rainbowgate. The club's incompetence in rubberstamping this outside marketing initiative without player group consultation was incredibly embarrassing.
Fully understand fans making comments in what can only be classed as a poor season in 2022.
Also would never try speak for anyone else, though I think emotion often makes extreme decisions for all of us....
Personally, I reckon it's more disappointment than embarressment....I mean if a person, thing , footy team embarrass me over a period of time, I'll slam the door on the way out....if I am disappointed, will be pi**ed off and feel let down for a while, but get over it after letting off steam.
I'm definitely uninspired by some of these performances in 2022, but will stick solid with hope and actually look ahead excited by the fact I feel things will not only improve, but jam down the throats of all those Manly haters, opposition fans putting the boot in and media scum, with 100% confident we will be back and after the downs, will taste even sweeter.
 
First Grader
Interesting to see if the cap is raised to 12 million next year? Surely clubs would want that decision sorted so they can plan. Currently its 9.4 million, reduced from previous years due to covid but talks to possibly raise it.

Manly could not afford to keep Foran, Davey and Walker - 3 of our better performing players this year and letting Marty go who is on big money, yet you read who Roosters have on their books plus Brandon Smith for 2023, and pending increase for Sam Walker and Joseph Suaali. Bit ridiculous

 
“ Triggered Boomer”
Premium Member
Interesting to see if the cap is raised to 12 million next year? Surely clubs would want that decision sorted so they can plan. Currently its 9.4 million, reduced from previous years due to covid but talks to possibly raise it.

Manly could not afford to keep Foran, Davey and Walker - 3 of our better performing players this year and letting Marty go who is on big money, yet you read who Roosters have on their books plus Brandon Smith for 2023, and pending increase for Sam Walker and Joseph Suaali. Bit ridiculous

Yes but you know how the Rorters do it.

They ( their fans ) say that the players want to play with the club and sign for much less than they’d get anywhere else !!

Yeah and I believe in Unicorns as well.

There would be “ deals “ being done in everything , subsidised housing , free cars , kids schooling , gift cards for groceries and the real doozy “ a post retirement ambassadorship”.

So yes of course Tedesco a 1.2 million a year player probably gets 750k, then another $300k in benefits and then is guaranteed a million a year job for 5 years after he retires.

PS: I’m just making those figures up I really don’t have an idea but that’s how the rich clubs do it.
 
“ Triggered Boomer”
Premium Member
True but not all our issues can be developed within the club.
Agree , 110%

I’ve been banging on all this year that I think we are short on a big damaging prop and a strike centre.

And obviously from 2023 a 5/8 as I’m not sure Schuster is the man OR if even he’ll be here.

Those are three positions we need strengthening.
 
Reserve Grader
Wow... Pete, that's a pretty harsh assessment. Hugely disappointed for mine, but embarrassed, don't think so.
Yes it seems harsh, but it's honestly how I feel atm. Rainbowgate really confirmed my previously held suspicions that:
1) Des unfortunately doesn't have the same control and galvanising effect on his playing group like he used to
2) We have half our squad who literally don't feel the significance and respect in playing for our proud club (if they aren't willing to fight for their mate, then all hope is lost in the brutal game of attrition that RL is). I also note that Aloiai 's signing has in fact backfired severely against the club
3) Our front office is a mess, and at least in the past, we had legends like Arko and Bozo keeping a firm grip on things

I'm embarrassed at the negative western Sydney infiltration of our culture. I'm embarrassed at the recruitment, retention and pathways decisions that have been made over the last several years. I am embarrassed at our clueless club owner, and the financial doldrums we can't seem to get out of. I am embarrassed at the absolute softness of our playing group.

But most of all, I'm embarrassed for Jake Trbojevic.

Probably one of the best blokes to have ever donned our jersey. Hard-working, passionate, consistent in football and character. True, hard, and uncompromising. In any other era, he would be a premiership winner with Manly. I am gutted for him that he will most likely miss out on this, knowing full well how much this means to him. Fk the lazy, soft, uninspired mercenaries that stand beside him, as he bleeds maroon and white every week.
 
First Grader
We need 1 more experienced forward leader in 23. AOA went up a level in 22. Jake started poorly but has stood up and shown some great qualities of late. Keppie and Tent have treaded water this season IMO. Marty does his thing, and does it reasonably well, but for a bloke with so much experience, you'd love him to be more influential a protector rallying the younger blokes around him.
 
Bencher
We need 1 more experienced forward leader in 23. AOA went up a level in 22. Jake started poorly but has stood up and shown some great qualities of late. Keppie and Tent have treaded water this season IMO. Marty does his thing, and does it reasonably well, but for a bloke with so much experience, you'd love him to be more influential a protector rallying the younger blokes around him.
Marty reminds me of McCannes pizza....."nothing special"
 
Bencher
Yes it seems harsh, but it's honestly how I feel atm. Rainbowgate really confirmed my previously held suspicions that:
1) Des unfortunately doesn't have the same control and galvanising effect on his playing group like he used to
2) We have half our squad who literally don't feel the significance and respect in playing for our proud club (if they aren't willing to fight for their mate, then all hope is lost in the brutal game of attrition that RL is). I also note that Aloiai 's signing has in fact backfired severely against the club
3) Our front office is a mess, and at least in the past, we had legends like Arko and Bozo keeping a firm grip on things

I'm embarrassed at the negative western Sydney infiltration of our culture. I'm embarrassed at the recruitment, retention and pathways decisions that have been made over the last several years. I am embarrassed at our clueless club owner, and the financial doldrums we can't seem to get out of. I am embarrassed at the absolute softness of our playing group.

But most of all, I'm embarrassed for Jake Trbojevic.

Probably one of the best blokes to have ever donned our jersey. Hard-working, passionate, consistent in football and character. True, hard, and uncompromising. In any other era, he would be a premiership winner with Manly. I am gutted for him that he will most likely miss out on this, knowing full well how much this means to him. Fk the lazy, soft, uninspired mercenaries that stand beside him, as he bleeds maroon and white every week.
I get all that Pete, doesn't help when you also have 4 marquee players if you count Marty at 700k taking a big chunk of our cap money. Then we end up buying iffy players like Bullemore and hope they come off. Not sure what you mean about Aloiai signing has backfired on the club, he's our leader in the forwards and our best fwd alongside the big O. Embarrassing is the Knights, Titans and the Tigers, we have a way to go to match these basket cases.
 
Bencher
we have had a nucleus of a side for a while but the fundamentals go backwards. We lack cohesion unless racking up scores and backline raids. Our kicking game is hopless even though it is littered with kicks that can only be described as bobby dazzlers, the overall game lacks purpose. Us not fixing it year after year only highlights how comfortable they have become with bog average

Our mental game is weak and lacks maturity.

our team 17 has to paper over cracks

jakes needs to be jake and be a foward with a few skills
maybe he is the workman forwatd that gets back and helps the backs in kick returns if he is running the game and making 50 tackles.
when walker comes on we lose a prop. We need walker to engage the line and help jake and foz but lack the punch
our halfback needs to do halfback things more often
throwing the ball to the fullback 20 times a game and saying create is madness

the journey to win big games is mapped out in big players heads. thats the leadership clubs fork out for and shows how we wasted the bargain buy of foran who was close to the missing bit considering frogs season this year

if fit
jake in front row rotate
davey and oku
lawman 13
dce big boy pants
another bopper on bench to be a dominant forward team

too often we lose posession in a big way in the first half. Fix that and we fix a lot of demons
 
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Journey Man
Not one single person currently involved in the club was in attendance to support Barb or Ken, despite the whole team being in QLD for the Titans game. Even some former players would have been nice.

Fatty Vautin, Thomas Keneally & John Quayle was there. Peter Peters spoke on behalf of Ken. There was about 150 people there, and I'm sure quite a few on the web link.

The wake was at Southport Yacht Club and was apparently very, very nice.

Anyways, my opinion is some current representatives of the club should have made a presence - Ken Arthurson is part of the fabric and history of our team. Disappointing, and also disappointing it was noticed.

We need to be better.
 
Bencher
Premium Member
A difficult one as all options can account for where the team is.

I went with the structures and the use of the 17 as one area that needs significant improvement.

The team has looked dreadful in attack at times, Foran has been a lone soldier in straightening the attack, like to see some hard discipline back at the club that drives players and staff being accountable for success.
 
Bencher
Premium Member
Not one single person currently involved in the club was in attendance to support Barb or Ken, despite the whole team being in QLD for the Titans game. Even some former players would have been nice.

Fatty Vautin, Thomas Keneally & John Quayle was there. Peter Peters spoke on behalf of Ken. There was about 150 people there, and I'm sure quite a few on the web link.

The wake was at Southport Yacht Club and was apparently very, very nice.

Anyways, my opinion is some current representatives of the club should have made a presence - Ken Arthurson is part of the fabric and history of our team. Disappointing, and also disappointing it was noticed.

We need to be better.

Seriously? No one from the club bothered to show up? That's really an indictment on just how bad our club culture has become. It's very disrespectful in my opinion. The optics are terrible considering the level of support being provided to Fainu et al at the moment.
 
The 79th Club CEO since 1986
Premium Member
too often we lose posession in a big way in the first half. Fix that and we fix a lot of demons
I like a lot of what you say. Not all, but a lot.

This last line hits it though - teams that grab those moments. We are a momentum-squandering powerhouse. The number of times we play strong, enterprising footy on offence only to give away a penalty/6-again when a team is trying to respond to a dominant offensive set is infuriating. A lot of people see this as Ref bias - but regardless of if it is either side of that fine line, why isn't it a point of hindsight scrutiny?

We lose posession in a big way as you say, either going for a ballsy play after being pinned down and repelling an 18-tackle set off the back of numerous 6-agains, or a standard hit-up or even - after conceding upfield-assisting penalties for ruck infringements/offside play, and forced line drop-outs. We survive that, then a veteran like Marty pushes a dumb offload when he doesn't need to, or Keppie drops it cold, or Harper gets stripped 1-on-1 on our 30m - and they stroll over untouched after a backline movement 4 plays later, and its like 'Our D is shiit'. No. Our decision making with the ball is the culprit.

There is a pattern of Manly putting themselves (or to the partisan viewer - the Refs' calls putting us) in a backs-to-wall-position early. Gas the tank, survive thru tenacious and admirable D, we have our tails up and bang....undo it through some boneheaded individual decision/moment.

This is a mentality problem. After being pinned down and enduring the emphasis should be on consolidation. Soak the pressure and respond - that response doesn't have to be immediate.

The ignored element of this obsession-with-self is the mental impact on your opponent - you hold out a team piggy backed down field, gifted dubious 6-agains leading to free unearned pressure-building, then the mental impact on the opposition unable to capitalise with that assistance is palpable. They can start to doubt and defeat themselves. Then you strike. This is how the great teams like the Storm of recent years work - methodically punish a teams failure to convert. Not through flashy plays that bring instant returns, but through quicksand-like dedication to a grind your opponent doesn't want - dictate the pace, drag them back to a gameplan you control.

Or you can push your own flashy play imperative, drop the ball on play-2 focusing on an impossible offload/poor ball security, and allow your opposition to settle and re-discover that sense of dominance they were heading towards through 6-again/penalty-gifted territory gain. Then they score a try, get their tails up as our heads drop and hands-on-hips from those who repelled the earlier raids.

I swear, this seems to be our pattern this year - an inconsistent gameplan that hits and misses. And once a team that has taken advantage of a favourable run of borderline calls has it's chin up they uppercut us again, and again, and again. Just ask the Storm, Cowboys, Eels and whoever else we let rack up at more than a point-a-minute over portions of a game where we seemingly went to sleep. Then rewind the game and watch what happened in the lead-up.

Long story short, we are a seriously dumb team sometimes, and push unnecessary plays at inopportune times where our intention can't match our execution - at least not without Tom in world-beating form. There is no fear of retribution Bellamy-style if you do a dumb-shiit play that the rest of the team has to work overtime to cover-up.
 
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Journey Man
Seriously? No one from the club bothered to show up? That's really an indictment on just how bad our club culture has become. It's very disrespectful in my opinion. The optics are terrible considering the level of support being provided to Fainu et al at the moment.

And it was noted , sadly.
 
Yes it seems harsh, but it's honestly how I feel atm. Rainbowgate really confirmed my previously held suspicions that:
1) Des unfortunately doesn't have the same control and galvanising effect on his playing group like he used to
2) We have half our squad who literally don't feel the significance and respect in playing for our proud club (if they aren't willing to fight for their mate, then all hope is lost in the brutal game of attrition that RL is). I also note that Aloiai 's signing has in fact backfired severely against the club
3) Our front office is a mess, and at least in the past, we had legends like Arko and Bozo keeping a firm grip on things

I'm embarrassed at the negative western Sydney infiltration of our culture. I'm embarrassed at the recruitment, retention and pathways decisions that have been made over the last several years. I am embarrassed at our clueless club owner, and the financial doldrums we can't seem to get out of. I am embarrassed at the absolute softness of our playing group.

But most of all, I'm embarrassed for Jake Trbojevic.

Probably one of the best blokes to have ever donned our jersey. Hard-working, passionate, consistent in football and character. True, hard, and uncompromising. In any other era, he would be a premiership winner with Manly. I am gutted for him that he will most likely miss out on this, knowing full well how much this means to him. Fk the lazy, soft, uninspired mercenaries that stand beside him, as he bleeds maroon and white every week.
Jake is a positive and negative in what he delivers to the team dynamic, part of the problem and part of the solution.

Manly play slow and cumbersome in many departments and lose effectiveness very quickly when the going gets tough speed wise and grind wise.

Jake is a great clubman but lets not place him on some kind of pedestal beyond what he contributes.
 
Dumb inside the 10 penalties or holding down excessively long due to over exuberance especially while on top and trying to pin a team deep in their own half.(happens so often it is not funny be it right after a good go forward set for once or pushing the envelope after a few good dominant tackles and going for one too many)

Many kick chasers rushing up to the fullback or winger and creating openings, not forming a line or ring around the kick return, lack of defensive discipline.

Pushing passes beyond our abilities or not having earned the right to put on the play.

40/20's that are more a reflection of a lack of confidence in our go forward to be sustained than a well thought out plan behind it.

Lack of directness and leg speed in our go forward.

General mental softness and lack of self belief in too many that gets easily exposed under pressure.

The list could go on and on, i just see a team with plenty of talent but very ineffective in delivery that are always looking for shortcuts in attack and defence.
 
Reserve Grader
I get all that Pete, doesn't help when you also have 4 marquee players if you count Marty at 700k taking a big chunk of our cap money. Then we end up buying iffy players like Bullemore and hope they come off. Not sure what you mean about Aloiai signing has backfired on the club, he's our leader in the forwards and our best fwd alongside the big O. Embarrassing is the Knights, Titans and the Tigers, we have a way to go to match these basket cases.
I think we can all agree now that we have in fact matched these basket cases
 

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