IloveMattO
Member
Yes they will be better off financially but should the members lose the club ? Has it worked here at Manly. What are the pitfalls for Souths to avoid. Is it worth taking anything to get rid of Geroge Piggins ?
Should Souths do it
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Canteen Worker
First Grader
Manly's situation was different in my mind. It was much better managed and noone inside the club seemed to think it was a bad idea.
$3 million doesn't seem a lot for Souths. Piggins saved the club a few years ago and so his reasons for not wanting the merger should at least be considered. Souths Juniors aren't onside and nor is the Parrot.
Is an absolute mess, fighting on the front page of the papers.
Who says Holmes-a-Court and The Gladiator know how to run a club!! That's what I like about us - still the footy club running the show!! (though Max's intervention to keep Monaghan was not greeted happily by certain people inside the club (let alone fans - outside the True Supporters!) :bdh:
$3 million doesn't seem a lot for Souths. Piggins saved the club a few years ago and so his reasons for not wanting the merger should at least be considered. Souths Juniors aren't onside and nor is the Parrot.
Is an absolute mess, fighting on the front page of the papers.
Who says Holmes-a-Court and The Gladiator know how to run a club!! That's what I like about us - still the footy club running the show!! (though Max's intervention to keep Monaghan was not greeted happily by certain people inside the club (let alone fans - outside the True Supporters!) :bdh:
IloveMattO
Member
Firstly Piggins didn't save them during the fightback , a behind the scenes crew did the tough stuff , George just kept the fans. He did however do the dirty hard yards during the late eighties when no one else stuck their hands up for the job.
Look at the news coverage they generate when they are at their worst , imagine how much they could be turned into when they are at their best. $3 mill is chicken feed. The club is a goldmine if run properly , it will not be Piggins to do that , but the members and the club should get the benifits , not a private company.
Matabele
Journey Man
$3 million for &5% is chicken feed.
Souths annual turnover is around $9m. Normally the "goodwill of a business" is 1.5 times the annual turnover. $13.5m sounds more realistic.
And at least when Delmege stumped up the cash he installed a management of professionals. The only time they've made stuff-ups is where they haven't stood up to Delmege interventions or buckled at the knees to internal politics.
Souths annual turnover is around $9m. Normally the "goodwill of a business" is 1.5 times the annual turnover. $13.5m sounds more realistic.
And at least when Delmege stumped up the cash he installed a management of professionals. The only time they've made stuff-ups is where they haven't stood up to Delmege interventions or buckled at the knees to internal politics.
ManlyBacker
Winging it
The offer for Souths is too low.
Max stumped up $3M, the newspapers speculated that Penn put in $1.5M (at the time of his purchase announcement) and today the claims are that combined they have put in $6M for their combined 80% (SMH):
Demege: "All I can say is our 80 per cent, which is held by the Penn family and myself, cost a lot more than $3 million and it's worth a lot more as well."
Penn and Delmege, who had first option to buy the stake ultimately taken by Penn, have spent in the order of $6 million for their share of the club. The remaining 20 per cent is held by Manly Warringah Football Club."
The Souths deal also gives Crowe and Holmes a Court the right to sell their share in 2 years, whereas Manly, I believe, has first option to buy back the privatised shares.
All round it doesn't seem like a good deal for the Bunnies.
Max stumped up $3M, the newspapers speculated that Penn put in $1.5M (at the time of his purchase announcement) and today the claims are that combined they have put in $6M for their combined 80% (SMH):
Demege: "All I can say is our 80 per cent, which is held by the Penn family and myself, cost a lot more than $3 million and it's worth a lot more as well."
Penn and Delmege, who had first option to buy the stake ultimately taken by Penn, have spent in the order of $6 million for their share of the club. The remaining 20 per cent is held by Manly Warringah Football Club."
The Souths deal also gives Crowe and Holmes a Court the right to sell their share in 2 years, whereas Manly, I believe, has first option to buy back the privatised shares.
All round it doesn't seem like a good deal for the Bunnies.
....well, it has me beat why Souths are still in the competition anyway and I am of the opinion they should be given an ultimatum by the NRL move to the Central Coast or don't exist - simple!
Yes it is sad in regards to losing traditional clubs but the guidelines were set...
Manly were forced to merge with North’s, St George were forced to merge with Illawarra, Balmain were forced to merge with West’s and South’s- didn’t fit the criteria but had their chances to merge….don’t give me this tradition baloney- while I think it is sad for clubs to have had to merge and am glad that we are no longer one of them, of all the clubs South’s are extremely fortunate that they have a few loud celebrity voices or they would already be on the scrap heap....they should've been treated just like all the other clubs!
Poor North’s, while I disliked them, no longer exist and South’s have hung around (doing not much except bicker I might add) achieving little if anything.
I worry about Manly first and foremost and couldn't give two hoots about Souths because they shouldn't even be in the bloody competition!
Yes it is sad in regards to losing traditional clubs but the guidelines were set...
Manly were forced to merge with North’s, St George were forced to merge with Illawarra, Balmain were forced to merge with West’s and South’s- didn’t fit the criteria but had their chances to merge….don’t give me this tradition baloney- while I think it is sad for clubs to have had to merge and am glad that we are no longer one of them, of all the clubs South’s are extremely fortunate that they have a few loud celebrity voices or they would already be on the scrap heap....they should've been treated just like all the other clubs!
Poor North’s, while I disliked them, no longer exist and South’s have hung around (doing not much except bicker I might add) achieving little if anything.
I worry about Manly first and foremost and couldn't give two hoots about Souths because they shouldn't even be in the bloody competition!
Canteen Worker
First Grader
I was waiting for PJ to come in on one of his pet topics. Right on cue. :lol:
G
Guest
Guest
Manly backers urge Souths consortium to raise their bid and end takeover saga
THE white knight who bought Manly in 2004 has advised Souths' suitors, Russell Crowe and Peter Holmes a Court to increase their $3 million bid to take control of the club.
Max Delmege, who paid a similar fee for a 40 per cent share of the company which holds the Sea Eagles licence to compete in the NRL, said: "To me, it doesn't seem a lot of money.
"All I can say is our 80 per cent, which is held by the Penn family and myself, cost a lot more than $3 million and it's worth a lot more as well."
In contrast to the furious battle for control of Souths, Penn Sport, headed by Scott Penn, bought 40 per cent of Manly only last month without a murmur of discontent or controversy.
Penn and Delmege, who had first option to buy the stake ultimately taken by Penn, have spent in the order of $6 million for their share of the club. The remaining 20 per cent is held by Manly Warringah Football Club.
Holmes a Court sought out Delmege when the Souths bid was being drawn up. Now Delmege, who bought into Manly to trump Penn's original offer which he thought was too low, believes more money is needed.
He said: "What would be nice to see is the existing consortium increase their offer. Then people might say 'these blokes are fair dinkum, they've increased their offer and want to do the right thing, let's work with them'."
The Crowe-Holmes a Court bid, will be put to members at an extraordinary general meeting on March 19.
Based on sound commercial reasoning Delmege said he wouldn't have bought into Manly - although it may prove a good investment .
"I looked at it as purely the right thing to do for the supporters of Manly. But secondly, I was thinking that 20 years down the track I'd probably get my money back anyway," he said.
"The Super League fiasco caused our clubs to suffer badly. That's over and our clubs are coming back and they're back bigger and stronger than ever.
"Ultimately I see that our clubs will be worth significant money and I would love to see them go back to their supporters by way of shares because it would be nice for them to own them."
The Manly privatisation found very strong favour among the 600 football club members in June 2004 with only 10 people voting against it.
The Souths proposal, which will be decided by 4505 members, faces a far tougher battle to clear the 75 per cent hurdle with club stalwart George Piggins and former Souths Juniors boss Henry Morris standing in its way.
Penn, whose father Richard attended his first Manly board meeting yesterday, believes privatisation of sport is the way of the future. "If Leagues clubs aren't able to support football teams as they have in the past there's no alternative," he said.
Penn also believes his investment will eventually be worth more, although he agrees it's very difficult to price a football club.
"I think $4-6 million is about the right price for now but who's to say that's going to be the price in a couple of years time when these clubs are turned around and on the up and up," he said.
Souths have finished last three years out of four since their readmission to the NRL in 2002 and members want to support a team that's winning, Penn noted.
"If members want success, and privatisation can deliver that, then why wouldn't they vote for it?"
David Gallop, the chief executive of the NRL which is itself half-owned by News Ltd, said the door was open to private ownership.
"Private ownership is definitely something we've got a very open mind about but deep pockets are generally needed and that's not unique to rugby league," he said.
While the NRL expects proper commercial assessments be done by those with the responsibility to decide the ownership of the entities holding NRL licences, Gallop's advice for Souths' members was more heartfelt.
"Souths and their members need to make their decision and move forward with as many people heading in the one direction as possible," he said.
I agree that clubs should issue shares to their supporters as a way of rasing funds. As Max said in 20 years time the shares could be worth a lot of money.
THE white knight who bought Manly in 2004 has advised Souths' suitors, Russell Crowe and Peter Holmes a Court to increase their $3 million bid to take control of the club.
Max Delmege, who paid a similar fee for a 40 per cent share of the company which holds the Sea Eagles licence to compete in the NRL, said: "To me, it doesn't seem a lot of money.
"All I can say is our 80 per cent, which is held by the Penn family and myself, cost a lot more than $3 million and it's worth a lot more as well."
In contrast to the furious battle for control of Souths, Penn Sport, headed by Scott Penn, bought 40 per cent of Manly only last month without a murmur of discontent or controversy.
Penn and Delmege, who had first option to buy the stake ultimately taken by Penn, have spent in the order of $6 million for their share of the club. The remaining 20 per cent is held by Manly Warringah Football Club.
Holmes a Court sought out Delmege when the Souths bid was being drawn up. Now Delmege, who bought into Manly to trump Penn's original offer which he thought was too low, believes more money is needed.
He said: "What would be nice to see is the existing consortium increase their offer. Then people might say 'these blokes are fair dinkum, they've increased their offer and want to do the right thing, let's work with them'."
The Crowe-Holmes a Court bid, will be put to members at an extraordinary general meeting on March 19.
Based on sound commercial reasoning Delmege said he wouldn't have bought into Manly - although it may prove a good investment .
"I looked at it as purely the right thing to do for the supporters of Manly. But secondly, I was thinking that 20 years down the track I'd probably get my money back anyway," he said.
"The Super League fiasco caused our clubs to suffer badly. That's over and our clubs are coming back and they're back bigger and stronger than ever.
"Ultimately I see that our clubs will be worth significant money and I would love to see them go back to their supporters by way of shares because it would be nice for them to own them."
The Manly privatisation found very strong favour among the 600 football club members in June 2004 with only 10 people voting against it.
The Souths proposal, which will be decided by 4505 members, faces a far tougher battle to clear the 75 per cent hurdle with club stalwart George Piggins and former Souths Juniors boss Henry Morris standing in its way.
Penn, whose father Richard attended his first Manly board meeting yesterday, believes privatisation of sport is the way of the future. "If Leagues clubs aren't able to support football teams as they have in the past there's no alternative," he said.
Penn also believes his investment will eventually be worth more, although he agrees it's very difficult to price a football club.
"I think $4-6 million is about the right price for now but who's to say that's going to be the price in a couple of years time when these clubs are turned around and on the up and up," he said.
Souths have finished last three years out of four since their readmission to the NRL in 2002 and members want to support a team that's winning, Penn noted.
"If members want success, and privatisation can deliver that, then why wouldn't they vote for it?"
David Gallop, the chief executive of the NRL which is itself half-owned by News Ltd, said the door was open to private ownership.
"Private ownership is definitely something we've got a very open mind about but deep pockets are generally needed and that's not unique to rugby league," he said.
While the NRL expects proper commercial assessments be done by those with the responsibility to decide the ownership of the entities holding NRL licences, Gallop's advice for Souths' members was more heartfelt.
"Souths and their members need to make their decision and move forward with as many people heading in the one direction as possible," he said.
I agree that clubs should issue shares to their supporters as a way of rasing funds. As Max said in 20 years time the shares could be worth a lot of money.
Canteen Worker
First Grader
Manly Backer is mentioned in the press!!!! Stu - are you really Max or Scott Penn??? :lol2:
ManlyBacker
Winging it
Eat my words Matabele - national press coverage!!!! 
Jatz Crackers
First Grader
1.5 times previous annual net profit or EBIT is supposedly more like it. And im with Fonz on this one, in that there is bugger all goodwill in any business these days. Assets + a debatable factor on proportion of profits.
But in any case,,,,,who really cares about this issue with Souths ? This competition is so competitive, we shouldnt have the time, nor inclination to be concerned about the future of others.
OH, and other comments made by PJ resonate with me as well. Manly first.
G'day boys.......'n girls if thats the case..........a real live 'Carrot eater' here.........
I've always had great respect and admiration for what Manly did when they sacked their coach mid-season a cuppla years ago and sold their football club to a private entity, you know, whats his name??........Delmege.........after that, I hadn't heard much about the nuts and bolts of the place and as they say, no news is good news so I guess the MWRLFC must still be travelling pretty well.......
For my slant on the Souths matter though, I reckon if we dont give Rusty and PHaC a go and instead let Georgy Boy have his way and run the club with his chook raffle income, then we may as well go the same way as Norths, Newtown, etc etc and turn the toes up and start supporting another game, possibly like the apparently REAL football game I call soccer..........NOT (censored) LIKELY THOUGH I SAY!!!!!!
As long as my asshole points to the ground, or except when I'm pissed and passed out, I wanna be following our mighty South Sydney football club, just the same as you northeners want to support your Manly Warringah until the day you die.......
It aint rocket science but it does give you a good feeling deep down inside.....and thats not just the kebab after the gutful of piss doing that!!!!!!!.........ITS PASSION!!!!!
So, I really dont give a rats ass if any of you dont give a rats ass about us........but without all of us, we dont have anything to support, coz it'd be mighty difficult if only 1 team turned up for the game every week wouldn't it???....who would kick off after you scored the first try???.........must be good winning 6-0 every week hey????.......wouldnt the cheergirls have a big day out...hehehe....wooohoooooo......and Manly score first again!!
I guess what I'm trying to say, now that I've taken the piss and probably have your attention, and apart from the fact that I'm on my 5th pint of bourbon is that we are all on this footballing roundabout together and what makes it so (censored) special IS the fact that we ARE all different and support different teams.....so dont change, I wont.........but I'll still love my footy when I wake up after game days!!!!!!!....and I'll still give it to the Rorters when we beat them........I'll still even support Souths if Piggins get his way and wrecks our future..........but the main thing is though, I'll still be in the bar after the game to have a drink with you.......and THATS what its all about!!!!!!.......
can someone pass the JB please??????
cheers
Rads
I've always had great respect and admiration for what Manly did when they sacked their coach mid-season a cuppla years ago and sold their football club to a private entity, you know, whats his name??........Delmege.........after that, I hadn't heard much about the nuts and bolts of the place and as they say, no news is good news so I guess the MWRLFC must still be travelling pretty well.......
For my slant on the Souths matter though, I reckon if we dont give Rusty and PHaC a go and instead let Georgy Boy have his way and run the club with his chook raffle income, then we may as well go the same way as Norths, Newtown, etc etc and turn the toes up and start supporting another game, possibly like the apparently REAL football game I call soccer..........NOT (censored) LIKELY THOUGH I SAY!!!!!!
As long as my asshole points to the ground, or except when I'm pissed and passed out, I wanna be following our mighty South Sydney football club, just the same as you northeners want to support your Manly Warringah until the day you die.......
It aint rocket science but it does give you a good feeling deep down inside.....and thats not just the kebab after the gutful of piss doing that!!!!!!!.........ITS PASSION!!!!!
So, I really dont give a rats ass if any of you dont give a rats ass about us........but without all of us, we dont have anything to support, coz it'd be mighty difficult if only 1 team turned up for the game every week wouldn't it???....who would kick off after you scored the first try???.........must be good winning 6-0 every week hey????.......wouldnt the cheergirls have a big day out...hehehe....wooohoooooo......and Manly score first again!!
I guess what I'm trying to say, now that I've taken the piss and probably have your attention, and apart from the fact that I'm on my 5th pint of bourbon is that we are all on this footballing roundabout together and what makes it so (censored) special IS the fact that we ARE all different and support different teams.....so dont change, I wont.........but I'll still love my footy when I wake up after game days!!!!!!!....and I'll still give it to the Rorters when we beat them........I'll still even support Souths if Piggins get his way and wrecks our future..........but the main thing is though, I'll still be in the bar after the game to have a drink with you.......and THATS what its all about!!!!!!.......
can someone pass the JB please??????
cheers
Rads
Duff
Bencher
At the end of the day , Russ is a Bunnies fan through & through. At the end of the same day, we feel the same about Manly. So if you ask yourself, "would I do anything to damage Manly or risk their future ?", Russ would have the same answer. He's not trying to do anything for his club that we wouldn't do for ours given the financial position. 3mill is way too low though.
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