Second rowers 2023 - 2025

[Cliffycomeback]

These are the backrow options we had when Seibs and his recruitment team took control. This list is compiled from our top 30 to start the season only. Not juniors or reserve graders.

// Haumole Olakau'atu
// Ben Condon
// Samuela Fainu
// Kelma Tuilagi
// Karl Lawton
// Josh Schuster
// Ben Trbojevic
// Zac Fulton

Since Seibs took control he has punted

// Ben Condon
// Samuela Fainu
// Kelma Tuilagi
// Karl Lawton
// Josh Schuster (after extending and upgrading)
// Zac Fulton

Since Seibs took control he has added

// Corey Waddell

Now you can call me cynical BUT!

/* I dont think this will work */

 

[nightster]

You could add Nathan Brown and Jaz Tevaga

 

[Cliffycomeback]

You could add Nathan Brown and Jaz Tevaga

Sorry, I'm thinking second row options only. I'll change the title. Edge forwards not middles.

 

[nightster]

Sorry, I'm thinking second row options only. I'll change the title. Edge forwards not middles.

Yeah those two played a few positions

 

[double hoops]

Condon, Fulton even Fainu none played many A grade games did they? Fulton was 1. Granted they all played some.

But we are talking Ressies edges than does Seibs list can then include:

Bullemor
Cheekam
Navale
Hart
Dunford
Matterson
Patalo.

That's it club have young blokes, below hopefully we see a few play A grade before the seasons done.

 

[Cliffycomeback]

Condon, Fulton even Fainu none played many A grade games did they? Fulton was 1. Granted they all played some.

But we are talking Ressies edges than does Seibs list can then include:

Bullemor
Cheekam
Navale
Hart
Dunford
Matterson
Patalo.

That's it club have young blokes, below hopefully we see a few play A grade before the seasons done.

Top 30 start of season only. Bullemor, Navale and Patolo are middle forwards not edge forwards. And it's also not about how many games they played. It's about the fact we shipped out all our top squad second row options and added Waddell. It's not difficult to understand. This year we had two genuine edge forwards for the first twelve rounds and Waddell. Then we added Chee Kam.

It should be clear our recruitment strategy is a massive failure.

 

[Dion Johnson]

These are the backrow options we had when Seibs and his recruitment team took control. This list is compiled by our top 30 to start the season only.

// Haumole Olakau'atu
// Ben Condon
// Samuela Fainu
// Kelma Tuilagi
// Karl Lawton
// Josh Schuster
// Ben Trbojevic
// Zac Fulton

Since Seibs took control he has punted

// Ben Condon
// Samuela Fainu
// Kelma Tuilagi
// Karl Lawton
// Josh Schuster (after extending and upgrading)
// Zac Fulton

Since Seibs took control he has added

// Corey Waddell

Now you can call me cynical BUT!

/* I dont think this will work */

I don’t understand why the club couldn’t snag a backrower after Schuster got punted, Mestrov at the time said it was a priority, all I can gather from recent recruitment that it has been impacted by what dollars are available and not moving a three quarter on to facilitate it.

I agree with the below being moved on though,

• Condon, never looked likely.
• Schuster, reasons of moving on are self explanatory.
• Kelma, inconsistent and has defensive areas to work on.
• Lawton, did a job there though him being let go hasn’t hurt, been very quiet at the Cowboy’s.
• Fulton, Never had the physique to be a permanent NRL player.

Sammy that one hurt, though he has been inconsistent at the Tigers he has the ability to be a very good footballer.

The three year deal for Waddell I don’t understand, normally three year deals are for players with high potential or who have played extremely well, a one year deal based on last season I understand but a three year deal is hard to fathom.

 

[Cliffycomeback]

I don’t understand why the club couldn’t snag a backrower after Schuster got punted, Mestrov at the time said it was a priority, all I can gather from recent recruitment that it has been impacted by what dollars are available and not moving a three quarter on to facilitate it.

I agree with the below being moved on though,

• Condon, never looked likely.
• Schuster, reasons of moving on are self explanatory.
• Kelma, inconsistent and has defensive areas to work on.
• Lawton, did a job there though him being let go hasn’t hurt, been very quiet at the Cowboy’s.
• Fulton, Never had the physique to be a permanent NRL player.

Sammy that one hurt, though he has been inconsistent at the Tigers he has the ability to be a very good footballer.

The three year deal for Waddell I don’t understand, normally three year deals are for players with high potential or who have played extremely well, a one year deal based on last season I understand but a three year deal is hard to fathom.

Nicely summarised.

// Schuster should not have been upgraded, that was a huge recruitment stuff up.
// Tuilagi is a better second rower than Waddell.
// Lawton is a better second rower than Waddell.

We definitely needed to find a Schuster replacement and Mestrov seemed to recognise the massive recruitment failure. But after stating the club were prioritising finding a replacement, nothing has transpired. Instead we upgraded Chee Kham into the roster, effectively ruling any late inclusion out.

I agree that we should have used a back to get a decent second rower.

 

[madmax]

Top 30 start of season only. Bullemor, Navale and Patolo are middle forwards not edge forwards. And it's also not about how many games they played. It's about the fact we shipped out all our top squad second row options and added Waddell. It's not difficult to understand. This year we had two genuine edge forwards for the first twelve rounds and Waddell. Then we added Chee Kam.

It should be clear our recruitment strategy is a massive failure.

Navale is not a middle!

 

[Cliffycomeback]

Navale is not a middle!

Yes he is.

Caleb Navale (born 8 May 2003) is a Fijian professional rugby league footballer who plays as a lock forward for the Manly Sea Eagles in the National Rugby League.

 

[madmax]

Yes he is.

Navale is a Lock Forward!

 

[Cliffycomeback]

Navale is a Lock Forward!

Correct, lock is a middle forward.

 

[madmax]

Correct, lock is a middle forward.

Lock is a loose forward. The link between the forwards & backs. Middles are Props, Edges are back rowers. Navale is not a prop. He is a Lock.

 

[Cliffycomeback]

This is from the Canberra Raiders website​

Middle Forward (Front Row & Lock)​

Key Focus: Run hard, generate momentum, and secure quick play-the-balls. Defend efficiently through the middle with strong technique.

 

[Cliffycomeback]

Lock is a loose forward. The link between the forwards & backs. Middles are Props, Edges are back rowers. Navale is not a prop. He is a Lock.

Just watch a game and it should become clear. Jake T, Jason T, Isaiah Y, Victor R, etc.. they all play predominately in the middle third man.

 

[madmax]

Just watch a game and it should become clear. Jake T, Jason T, Isaiah Y, Victor R, etc.. they all play predominately in the middle third man.

All forwards play in the middle third, hence the reference of Middles. Lock is the link between the the forwards & backs so predominantly requires a lighter player with ball skills. Props are regarded main middles. Back rowers as edges. This new terminology is vague to me. Anyway at the end of the day they’re all forwards. Back in the day you were a prop, 2nd rower or lock. None of this new middle, edge crap. Are we going he way of rugby Yawnion?

 

[double hoops]

Top 30 start of season only. Bullemor, Navale and Patolo are middle forwards not edge forwards. And it's also not about how many games they played. It's about the fact we shipped out all our top squad second row options and added Waddell. It's not difficult to understand. This year we had two genuine edge forwards for the first twelve rounds and Waddell. Then we added Chee Kam.

It should be clear our recruitment strategy is a massive failure.

I Agree with you that is Edge is our position of least depth.

I just think number of players in A and number of players in B is over simplistic. What position is listed on the clubs website is not even where they end up playing most of there games that season most years, gives zero consideration of dual or multiple position coverage.

If I told you Navale has been played plenty on an edge in Ressies, Condon Mainly prop. What do we do to that restrictive list.

Same with top 30.

Others are saying Chee Kam has been up graded to top 30 I didn't know that. But he's played more NRL games on an edge than half of column A. So if we are comparing players that played one game on and edge at Manly does top 30 really matter.

But yes one more edge would be nice.

 

[Cliffycomeback]

All forwards play in the middle third, hence the reference of Middles. Lock is the link between the the forwards & backs so predominantly requires a lighter player with ball skills. Props are regarded main middles. Back rowers as edges. This new terminology is vague to me. Anyway at the end of the day they’re all forwards. Back in the day you were a prop, 2nd rower or lock. None of this new middle, edge crap. Are we going he way of rugby Yawnion?

Edge forwards (second rowers) play on an edge, not in the middle third.

Isaiah Yeo, Jake Trbojevic, Jermaine Hopgood, Jack De Bellin, Jason Taumololo, Pat Carrigan, Corey Horsburgh, Ryan Matterson, etc. They are all big guys who could switch between prop and lock. The smaller types like Cam Murray, Victor Radley, Cameron McCinnes, Jaemon Salmon etc still play in the middle third but they are likely to roam a bit more. They just do everything at high pace.

Edge forwards are more connected to centres and wingers than they are props.

 

[Cliffycomeback]

I Agree with you that is Edge is our position of least depth.

I just think number of players in A and number of players in B is over simplistic. What position is listed on the clubs website is not even where they end up playing most of there games that season most years, gives zero consideration of dual or multiple position coverage.

If I told you Navale has been played plenty on an edge in Ressies, Condon Mainly prop. What do we do to that restrictive list.

Same with top 30.

Others are saying Chee Kam has been up graded to top 30 I didn't know that. But he's played more NRL games on an edge than half of column A. So if we are comparing players that played one game on and edge at Manly does top 30 really matter.

But yes one more edge would be nice.

I respect what you think but disagree.

All of the players I listed being here in 2023 are presently playing as an edge backrower except for Karl Lawton and Josh Schuster. It is so bad that we need to try and manufacturers a reserve grade centre in Schoupp to play backrow.

 

[Ohgeez]

I respect what you think but disagree.

All of the players I listed being here in 2023 are presently playing as an edge backrower except for Karl Lawton and Josh Schuster. It is so bad that we need to try and manufacturers a reserve grade centre in Schoupp to play backrow.

Zac Fulton & Condon are playing in the 2nd division in England. Schoupp, MCK & Waddell are all much better options than they would be in the back row easily