Salary Cap Witch Hunt. **Appeal unsuccessful**

[Fluffy]

who or what is reading the toilet paper?

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

who or what is reading the toilet paper?

Gerard Condon

Brisbane based.

 

[Wombat64]

A big win will help, a big loss and god help us on here tomorrow night!!

Win or lose tomorrow my faith in the mighty Eagles is as strong as ever. I'm not going away. I'm really pissed off with the the NRL at the **** we constantly get dealt with. I mean are they serious? Just look at our team over the past few years vs. the obvious ones ..... yeah, and we are cheats?

 

[EaglesDontTweet]

It would be a PR disaster for the NRL as Penn would just take it straight to the Courts

Then again, the NRL have no foresight in defending one of their Franchisees

HM, your post reminded me of Scott Penn's fair and reasonable appeal last year to Todd Greenberg to show some support to one of his (Greenberg's) clubs.......

The Australian - Brent Read - July 17 2017

Manly boss Scott Penn urges Todd Greenberg to be more supportive
Manly chairman Scott Penn has spoken to NRL chief executive Todd Greenberg about the need for the game to be more supportive as senior Sea Eagles officials prepare to meet the integrity unit over the latest allegations involving the club.

Penn, whose club maintained their quest for a top-four spot with a hard-fought win over Wests Tigers at Lottoland yesterday, defiantly insisted the latest claims against the Sea Eagles had no foundation.

He told Greenberg the same during a conversation last week in which he urged the game’s chief executive to conclude the investigation as quickly as possible to mitigate the brand damage the club had already suffered.

Manly games were last year at the centre of match-fixing allegations, which were investigated by the NSW Police and NSW Crime Commission and found to have no foundation.

Out of that investigation, as well as information allegedly gleaned from disgruntled employees in recent weeks over a toxic office environment, fresh claims have emerged of potential salary cap irregularities.

Penn insisted his club had no case to answer, something he reinforced in talks with Greenberg.

“I said to him we’ve got to work together on this because we really feel like we’ve been hung out to dry and unfairly treated when nothing has been proven,” Penn said.

“We didn’t get the support we felt we needed from the game. We’ve just said that in future if these things happen ... if it’s related to individuals, not to the club, then support the club.

“Don’t throw the club under the bus. With the match-fixing straight away they knew it had nothing to do with the club. It was potentially a couple of individuals that may or may not have been with the club any more.

“Well, come out and say that. Come out and say that it’s nothing to do with the club itself. That’s where it’s been really unfair for the club because our brand is the one that’s been on the front page of the paper and on TV as if it’s a club issue. That’s the most disappointing part.” Penn said he would happily meet the NRL integrity unit and hand over any documentation it required in order to expedite the investigation.

“We have nothing to hide,” he said. “I rang Todd 10 days ago and said come down next week, what do we have to do to wrap this up as quickly as possible. He said we have to work through a process.

Full Story Link: https://www.theaustralian.com.au/sp...e/news-story/697479be96422fb375a657f429e26a35

 

[MissKate]

8 months later..........

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Like the Drags signing James Graham this year to 4 years

From memory this began as a response to the Drags signing Gasnier to come back on peanuts to win then comp, with a back-ended deal that didn't matter because he then retired.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

800,000 pages in perspective. I read a lot, I’d say I would average 50 books a year for the last 40 years. That is 2000 books. If they average 400 pages each, which is ballpark, then that means I have read 800,000 pages. It took 40 years.

The figure of 800,000 probably refers to 'items', such as phone call records, sms messages or emails. Often you can scan many pages of this crap is double quick time, because some of it is just numbers or a couple of words, and others are quickly identified as irrelevant.
It certainly wouldn't be 800,000 pages. ​

 

[Jatz Crackers]

The figure of 800,000 probably refers to 'items', such as phone call records, sms messages or emails. Often you can scan many pages of this crap is double quick time, because some of it is just numbers or a couple of words, and others are quickly identified as irrelevant.
It certainly wouldn't be 800,000 pages. ​

IMO, it would be a lot closer to the mark to say the NRL just looked at folders on PCs and counted document numbers.

There is nothing that I have seen so far to suggest anything other than this so called investigation is nothing more than an agenda driven lie about Manly so why any credence is given to anything the NRL suggests is beyond me.

 

[CEGL]

In an effort to educate myself I had a look at the NRL website concerning Third Party Agreements.
The key phrase in their wording of the regulations appear to be......
“These agreements (TPAs) may not be negotiated by the club as an incentive for a player to sign a contract, nor can they be guaranteed by the club.”
The argument must therefore centre around whether Manly “negotiated” and/or “guaranteed” the agreements in seeking to provide an incentive to sign.
The specific wording of the NRL Regulations is where the problem lies.
Every TPA is an incentive to sign if introduced by a Club but the wording does not say Manly are not entitled to introduce a Third Party nor does it stipulate that it can’t be in some way involved in discussions between players and Third Parties. A club may not however “negotiate or guarantee” the agreement.
The definition of what is “negotiated” by the Club according to the NRL Definition is murky, at best, and that will, I suspect, be the basis of the Appeal.
A “Guarantee” seems, to my mind, more clear cut.
What is even more clear however is that the NRL have failed miserably in establishing TPA regulations that are able to be applied with clarity.

 

[SeaEagle21]

In an effort to educate myself I had a look at the NRL website concerning Third Party Agreements.
The key phrase in their wording of the regulations appear to be......
“These agreements (TPAs) may not be negotiated by the club as an incentive for a player to sign a contract, nor can they be guaranteed by the club.”
The argument must therefore centre around whether Manly “negotiated” and/or “guaranteed” the agreements in seeking to provide an incentive to sign.
The specific wording of the NRL Regulations is where the problem lies.
Every TPA is an incentive to sign if introduced by a Club but the wording does not say Manly are not entitled to introduce a Third Party nor does it stipulate that it can’t be in some way involved in discussions between players and Third Parties. A club may not however “negotiate or guarantee” the agreement.
The definition of what is “negotiated” by the Club according to the NRL Definition is murky, at best, and that will, I suspect, be the basis of the Appeal.
A “Guarantee” seems, to my mind, more clear cut.
What is even more clear however is that the NRL have failed miserably in establishing TPA regulations that are able to be applied with clarity.

If it is written down somewhere in the minutes of the negotiation and accepted by both parties at the time then it’s cop the punishment. However i doubt it would have been written anywhere and the proof is the contracts were given to the NRL and rubber stamped by them so the contract is the contract. What a player feels they are owed is another thing altogether. Like someone else has already said previously i hope it goes further so
that we find out the real details and which players were involved. Lyall Gorman having been tasked with improving the TPA system is a key point as he would have seen what other clubs have been doing as part of the task and therefore would know that Manly haven’t done anything different to other clubs. Well done to Scott for head hunting him to be the CEO, no doubt knew that he would bring some expertise in that area.

Interesting times ahead.

 

[rifraff]

Any chance we can hire lodge to punch the **** out of Toddy then get Packer to stomp on his head and then get Carney to piss on him.

 

[MadMarcus]

Any chance we can hire lodge to punch the **** out of Toddy then get Packer to stomp on his head and then get Carney to piss on him.

Not sure about all that, but Nate's already on the books so we should be able to direct him to take a dump in Greenberg's hallway and I'm sure Hoppa would be happy to stick his finger up Greenberg's arse for free.

 

[BOZO]

Why Sea Eagles are appealing NRL salary cap ruling
Jon Geddes, Manly Daily
March 31, 2018 12:00am

SEA Eagles chairman Scott Penn is adamant his club has not paid one cent more than the contracted amounts to players as they begin the appeals process challenging the NRL’S finding that they were guilty of salary cap offences.

“It is very different to any of the previous systematic rorting and the big ticket scandals,” Penn said.

He said those matters had involved circumstances such as payments under the table and false invoices.

“This is not anything like that,” he said. “We have always been very clear these are technical issues relating to the salary cap rules.”

He said Manly had nothing to hide and the NRL forensic accountants had gone in and reviewed the club’s books


“The club has not physically paid one cent more than the contracted amounts to players,” Penn said.

“This is relating to negotiations with players at the very front end and their belief that we made promises to players for third parties which we didn’t do.”

After the NRL fined the Sea Eagles $750,000 and deducted $660,000 from their salary cap over the next two years the club decided to lodge their appeal following meetings with their legal team.

“What we feel strongly about is that we haven’t really had the chance to prosecute our legal case yet,” Penn said.

“And during the appeals process we have the chance to deliver that case in a more formal setting and we need to make sure we have every chance to clear our name.

“We definitely want to bring this matter to a head for our players and our members one way or another as quickly as possible.

“It has dragged on, everyone is sick of the uncertainty and no matter which way it goes the important thing is that we will move forward


The matter will be heard by the three-man NRL Appeals Committee headed by Ian Callinan QC.

“We are still waiting to hear exactly where it goes from here but we have lodged the first stage of the paperwork to initiate that,” Penn said.

What adds further uncertainty to the current situation is that the club has 12 players coming off contract at the end of the season.

“We have spoken as a group about it and we’ll do our best to keep them informed with what’s going on,” said coach Trent Barrett.

“The players that I have got in the room now are here to do a job
“They are professionals, we’ll keep them in the loop as much as we can.

“I’d love to be able to keep all of them but what happens over the next few weeks will determine what we’ve got this year and what we’ve got for next year.

“It’s all pretty hypothetical at the moment.”

But Barrett said it had been business as usual for his team this week ahead of this evening’s game against the Raiders at Lottoland.

“It is certainly not unusual for this group of players to be going through a week like this given some of the stuff that has happened,” Barrett said.

“The players are fine, it is certainly not of their concern and nothing of their doing.”

 

[Wombat64]

Still can't believe we have been found guilty of salary cap rorting without ever being over the salary cap, or apparently, without ever paying players more than they were contracted to receive.

Especially when you look at what other clubs clearly do and get away with.

 

[Bearfax]

Just read the Manly Daily comments. Boy are they angry. To excuse the pun here, they've prodded the bear (sea eagle) and he's coming out snarling. This will go to civil court if the League fail to recognise the claims made by the club. Could get very nasty.

 

[Spartan Eagle]

Why Sea Eagles are appealing NRL salary cap ruling
Jon Geddes, Manly Daily
March 31, 2018 12:00am

SEA Eagles chairman Scott Penn is adamant his club has not paid one cent more than the contracted amounts to players as they begin the appeals process challenging the NRL’S finding that they were guilty of salary cap offences.

“It is very different to any of the previous systematic rorting and the big ticket scandals,” Penn said.

He said those matters had involved circumstances such as payments under the table and false invoices.

“This is not anything like that,” he said. “We have always been very clear these are technical issues relating to the salary cap rules.”

He said Manly had nothing to hide and the NRL forensic accountants had gone in and reviewed the club’s books


“The club has not physically paid one cent more than the contracted amounts to players,” Penn said.

“This is relating to negotiations with players at the very front end and their belief that we made promises to players for third parties which we didn’t do.”

After the NRL fined the Sea Eagles $750,000 and deducted $660,000 from their salary cap over the next two years the club decided to lodge their appeal following meetings with their legal team.

“What we feel strongly about is that we haven’t really had the chance to prosecute our legal case yet,” Penn said.

“And during the appeals process we have the chance to deliver that case in a more formal setting and we need to make sure we have every chance to clear our name.

“We definitely want to bring this matter to a head for our players and our members one way or another as quickly as possible.

“It has dragged on, everyone is sick of the uncertainty and no matter which way it goes the important thing is that we will move forward


The matter will be heard by the three-man NRL Appeals Committee headed by Ian Callinan QC.

“We are still waiting to hear exactly where it goes from here but we have lodged the first stage of the paperwork to initiate that,” Penn said.

What adds further uncertainty to the current situation is that the club has 12 players coming off contract at the end of the season.

“We have spoken as a group about it and we’ll do our best to keep them informed with what’s going on,” said coach Trent Barrett.

“The players that I have got in the room now are here to do a job
“They are professionals, we’ll keep them in the loop as much as we can.

“I’d love to be able to keep all of them but what happens over the next few weeks will determine what we’ve got this year and what we’ve got for next year.

“It’s all pretty hypothetical at the moment.”

But Barrett said it had been business as usual for his team this week ahead of this evening’s game against the Raiders at Lottoland.

“It is certainly not unusual for this group of players to be going through a week like this given some of the stuff that has happened,” Barrett said.

“The players are fine, it is certainly not of their concern and nothing of their doing.”

Thanks for posting the article @BOZO

 

[HappilyManly]

In an effort to educate myself I had a look at the NRL website concerning Third Party Agreements.
The key phrase in their wording of the regulations appear to be......
“These agreements (TPAs) may not be negotiated by the club as an incentive for a player to sign a contract, nor can they be guaranteed by the club.”
The argument must therefore centre around whether Manly “negotiated” and/or “guaranteed” the agreements in seeking to provide an incentive to sign.
The specific wording of the NRL Regulations is where the problem lies.
Every TPA is an incentive to sign if introduced by a Club but the wording does not say Manly are not entitled to introduce a Third Party nor does it stipulate that it can’t be in some way involved in discussions between players and Third Parties. A club may not however “negotiate or guarantee” the agreement.
The definition of what is “negotiated” by the Club according to the NRL Definition is murky, at best, and that will, I suspect, be the basis of the Appeal.
A “Guarantee” seems, to my mind, more clear cut.
What is even more clear however is that the NRL have failed miserably in establishing TPA regulations that are able to be applied with clarity.

Kent did quote Manly used 'best endeavours' that the NRL claim equates to 'guarantee'.

Hence Penn stating that the issue is a 'technicality' whilst the Media scream rort/cheating etc

If Jesus could be crucified, then Manly is in good company

 

[Spartan Eagle]

I just hope that the outcome is reported objectivity. There are obvious flaws in the system but what I don't like is being compared to the storm and Eels rorting which was systematic and involved direct payments from the club. This is a huge difference. If you need a million emails and texts to draw inference that manly orchistrated the TPAs then your argument must be pretty weak. Let's hope the media gets some perspective.

 

[Wombat64]

Just read the Manly Daily comments. Boy are they angry. To excuse the pun here, they've prodded the bear (sea eagle) and he's coming out snarling. This will go to civil court if the League fail to recognise the claims made by the club. Could get very nasty.

I hope so. I really do. Let's blow the whole ****en TPA thing up.

 

[Terry Zarsoff]

Peters (unsurprisingly) is also on the warpath in the MD, defending Fulton. Operation Goldberg Goes Down is unfolding. Sorry, I meant to say Greenberg.

Notice how the other clubs are very quiet?

Watching and waiting.