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Salary Cap and Manly

Discussion in 'Rugby League Forum' started by Ryan, Nov 7, 2014.

  1. Ryan

    Ryan Well-Known Member

    +9,385 /402
    A lot of you have been debating whether we can fit both Foran / DCE into our salary cap. Being a Banker, I thought I'd do some calculations, that might help you form a hypothesis of your own (bearing in mind, my numbers are complete guess- timates):-

    Salary Cap: 6,550,000
    Veteran playing allowance: 250,000
    Minimum Wage: 80,000
    * 3rd party deals (see below)

    Please note the clubs top paid 25 players for Manly must fit into 6,800,000

    01. Brett Stewart (Estimate 650k) - per zero tackle
    02. Jorge Taufua (Estimate 150k)
    03. Steve Matai (Estimate 350k)
    04. Jamie Lyon (Estimate 500k)
    05. Peta Hiku (Estimate 175k)
    06. Kieran Foran (Offer 750k)
    07. Daly Cherry-Evans (Offer 750k)
    08. Brenton Lawrence (Estimate 200k)
    09. Matt Ballin (Estimate 300k)
    10. Josh Starling (Estimate 150k)
    11. Feleti Mateo (Estimate 300k)
    12. Tom Symonds (Estimate 200k)
    13. Jamie Buhrer (Estimate 250k)

    14. Willie Mason (Estimate 200k)
    15. Dunamis Lui (Estimate 150k)
    16. Jesse Sene-Lefao (Estimate 120k)
    17. Justin Horo (Estimate 150k)

    18-25. (Average 90k per player) - 720k (some players on 80k, some on 110k)

    This equals 6,065,000 in team salaries (Leaving 735k in cap space for my stuff ups and/or low balling players).

    3rd Party Arrangements for Associated Sponsors
    Note, that our current sponsors can provide players up to $600,000 in payments for using their services to sell brand etc. This has not been used above/

    3rd Party Arrangements NOT Associated with the club
    Note, that non associated entities can pay our players unlimited amounts, but these deals are very difficult to find (that are above board).

    Assume, we can get our EXISTING sponsors to use KF / DCE, and top up each of their deals to say 1 mill each - this isn't so difficult.

    That is NOT touching the 735k in cap space, you can assign to the rest of the playing group.

    This tells me, we can easily afford all players (including huge deals for the halves)

    Thoughts guys?
    • Like Like x 8
    • anthonyb1965

      anthonyb1965 GO Manly Premium Member 2017 Tipping Competitor

      +889 /25
      Your figures look very black and white :)
    • Clint

      Clint . Premium Member 2017 Tipping Competitor

      +2,172 /34
      I will say straight up that I don't have much of an idea when it comes to players values. Only what I read on here.
      But I sincerely hope that we are paying JB more than Mateo. He is a lot more valuable than that.
      • Like Like x 2
      • c eagle

        c eagle Well-Known Member

        +452 /52
        But didn't you say forans gone........ And we should be moving on, looking elsewhere for replacement.
        • Like Like x 2
        • Fluffy

          Fluffy Well-Known Member

          +5,615 /203
          Thoughts are that almost all of us are guessing, especially the journos. I think Mateo is on a lot more than 300K and you probably need to add Chocs 300K owing into this years cap

          The other thing is the 3rd party stuff is impossible to get a grip on, one would have to be naive to think that there are not "mates" paying unrestricted 3rd party deals to some players. You only need to remember that Lockyer was on 250K whilst playing of QLD and AUS as well as captaining his club, less than King was on.
        • Technical Coach

          Technical Coach Well-Known Member

          +1,135 /80
          I would say 50% of these valuations are under valued(by a good margin) and the rest close enough to correct.

          Stop worrying about a salary cap people it only exists for players we no longer really want or the player is so over-valued that a business decision is made to let them go.

          Finishing first(or top 4) does not guarantee or always mean the return on investment is improved be it make a small profit or a reduced loss.(which is mostly the case)

          Does an outlay of 2.4 million a year on two halves generate a better return on investment than 1.2 on one, there is a point of diminishing returns.

          Yes great halves pairings do improve GF opportunities and this will improve sponsorship/membership revenue but there is a point where the outlay to achieve such success is greater than the return.
        • Mark from Brisbane

          Mark from Brisbane Living the dream Premium Member

          +19,621 /383
          I hate it when you are so " technical ".
        • Technical Coach

          Technical Coach Well-Known Member

          +1,135 /80
          Look at it this way a rising star in Foran back in 2010 was able to blood in Hodkinson and in 2011 DCE winning a GF so lets not get too down if we lose one of the halves it is not always the end of the world.

          Best thing we can do to plan ahead is have back up potential in the halves and concentrate on developing their mindset, structures and skillset more than worrying about overall team performance in the lower grades or having a stock pile of forwards.

          Forwards can be purchased from other teams discards, from the lower grades, recruitment seeing untapped potential or body forms not trained to maximize potential.

          Personally I feel the Warriors will go all out for Foran as it is the right time to build a premiership winning team in 2017.

          If the Warriors can build into a premiership winning force(not a late charge into the Semis team) the interest will be huge as it has been a while since the Warriors have lead from the front which will create a big explosion in revenue/sponsorship that can easily recoup the investment in Foran.

          Foran and Johnson seem like down to earth smart individuals so it would be a good mix of flair discipline leadership and structure--- I have no doubt the play for Foran is real to a certain extent.

          A club like Manly that has been successful for the last decade is not going to generate as much interest if we lead the comp or make another GF so we wont ride a wave of explosion in membership or ticket sales to justify such a big outlay.

          From what I recall Manly generated some of their biggest average crowds and interest when the current and past senior players were on the rise back in the early Hasler years, sometimes a batch of new faces rekindles interest in the club.

          We sort of take for granted the same old same old after a while and it takes a batch of new young players offering something new to generate high levels of interest again.

          Hopefully we can keep both(personally I would only keep one) but I can also see the positives of losing a few players and unearthing new stars that we can grow to love in the same way we did back in the early reborn Manly years under Hasler.
          • Like Like x 3
          • Loobs

            Loobs Scott Fulton’s 5th Cousin Premium Member

            +9,059 /306
            I think we need full transparency with player salaries like with American sports. Only then will you do away with suggestions of "cap rorting".

            I should be able to go online and see that the cap amount is $x and Manly have committed $y across these players leaving $z remaining. It's very bizarre that they try to keep it a black box while thinking there can still be any integrity among fans as to cap breaches...
            • Like Like x 2
            • Budgewoi Eagle

              Budgewoi Eagle In for the long haul. Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor 2017 Tipping Competitor

              +5,817 /82
              Is it possible that we would perform better with just one 'star' half who would then be unleashed to control the direction of the team completely rather than share with another brilliant individual who has slightly different plans?
              Just a thought.
            • Technical Coach

              Technical Coach Well-Known Member

              +1,135 /80
              It is possible if that player is a leader and well respected at the club.

              Both our halves have their positives and negatives but in Foran we have a track record of bringing in a new half and performing well.

              Just because DCE is more talented and has a more rounded skillset does not mean his style of play will fit in as easily with other halves.

              Foran is already combining well with Johnson in the four nations. I don't think Foran is doing anything spectacular or even playing as well as some people are making out in this series but he is doing a good enough job.

              DCE on the other hand looks confident and takes control when the team he plays for is looking good but his performances for QLD and Australia are nothing to write home about.

              DCE seems to be a little timid in new company but that is understandable with Cam Smith and Cronk taking over way too much control of the decision making not allowing DCE to flourish as much as he should.(but even so can you ever imagine Foran going into the Australian squad and not taking over some control so it is more balanced--- he will slip in with his structures and all will be good)

              I still do think DCE can be more dominant through the middle with a better forward pack, the last 1-2 years he is playing more as a 5/8 off the back of second man plays due to a lack of punch and second phase through the middle.

              With G.Stewart Watmough and Kite gone along with King I think it is important we keep some tough disciplined players in our ranks like Ballin(a not in your face type of toughness) Matai and Foran.

              In the end if Foran feels some days he does not want to be here and other times he does I think he should move on.

              On the other hand when in negotiations you always have to make out there is a possibility of leaving or you are unhappy and need some "loving" of show me the money to "maximize your earning potential"----damn I hate that line.

              The potential to earn big dollars off an explosion of interest in a one club country especially after winning their first GF will be huge and a nice new challenge for Foran but it can also go the other way.

              Having national exposure in advertising campaigns and also being the captain of the first GF winning team is a lot more attractive if you want that kind of attention than being just another great player in the Sydney market.

              Interesting times ahead it has been boring and frustrating since the end of 2011 change might be good for us all whoever decides to stay.
              Rorting will happen no matter what is put in place---you can only limit it to a certain degree.
              • Like Like x 1
              • The Who

                The Who Well-Known Member Premium Member

                +7,247 /173
                DCE seemed confident enough when he scored that solo 70-metre try for Australia, then coolly slotted two goals.
                I've watched him from the Under 20s and he'd take control of the matches then and lead our Toyota Cup lads to victory. He is built to lead, imo.
                Even Thurston has off days. Who doesn't?
                Both Foran and DCE are not only great on-field talents they are really good spokesmen for Manly and rugby league in general.
                • Like Like x 2
                • Brookie Brawler

                  Brookie Brawler Well-Known Member 2017 Tipping Competitor

                  +475 /7
                  True but if the wages are made public no player could ever again argue that he didn't know about it when a rort is uncovered and he would be subject to a lengthy suspension.

                  As things stand, there is no material punishment available to players or managers - based on the purple Scum's situation.
                  • Like Like x 1
                  • Loobs

                    Loobs Scott Fulton’s 5th Cousin Premium Member

                    +9,059 /306
                    There is also the aspect that this is the fans game and really, each year we have no idea how many ch guys are on and how much cap room is left and therefore who we can discuss on forums as possible recruits!

                    THINK OF THE FORUMS!!!

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