Sack Spoony Siebold

[Ohgeez]

I think Kikau, Burton, Crichton and Mahoney combined, are on massive coin. I think this idea that we are hamstrung by big contacts is a myth. The cap has gone up so much that we can have these big contacts and assemble a strong squad. The issue is not a cap out of whack, it’s our performances.

I have no issue with how the cap has been balanced, I have an issue with how little football Tom plays, how one of them doesn’t want to be here anymore, and how slow Jake has gotten. It’s not an imbalanced cap if those guys were giving us their best versions of themselves.

What I mean to say is I think it’s pretty normal to have so much tied up in a few players. We just aren’t getting our money’s worth from two (at times three when DCE turns it up) that is the issue.

You have nailed it. There is nothing wrong with having players on big money, every team has a few. Our problem is we just spent it on the wrong players unfortunately, hopefully over the next few years we get lucky with injuries on our next crop of big money signings

 

[BOZO]

You have nailed it. There is nothing wrong with having players on big money, every team has a few. Our problem is we just spent it on the wrong players

Bingo !
You have nailed it feathered friend
We all live and die by the choices we make
No Excuses only Accountability .
Clubs like the storm Invest in Budget Players with Potential and Build them Up
We Invest in Past their Prime Budget Players and We wind them down to Retirement

 

[Thewestisbest]

Kikau, Mahoney, Burton, and Crichton are not on anywhere near the same money as DCE, Turbo, Jake and Olakau'atu combined. They largely occupy those same roster salary spots. Additionally, Ciraldo had a say in the signing of two of them I believe. Collectively, there is probably about $2.4 million spent on those four, and about $3.8 spent on our four. Very different propositions, when you consider that all 30 contract spots must have at least $120k (I believe) allocated. That effectively means that we have $7 million / $11.5 million on the cap gone. We have 4 and a bit million total to sign players ABOVE the NRL minimum wage. Canterbury are at about $5.6 million, which is a very different proposition, and have a number of middles that have come through their system, whereas we have to sign them from outside. Additional contracts that were there before Seibold has held influence are Aloiai and Garrick.

Importantly, the Panthers players have been on considerable unders during this entire time. That has not been the case for our "big three". When Spencer Leniu was on $200k there, it becomes blantantly obvious how they could afford those players.

Josh is a good person who was going through a lot, and often these sorts of setbacks are unpredictable. He had a major one.

If you're saying this is all "Spoonys" fault, can you tell me what Des did better? Oh funny about that, he had the exact same problems, and had people like Morgan Boyle on random multi-year deals.

The Bulldogs quartet I put up as an example come to 3.2 - 3.4 million according to the contracts reported in the media. Penrith had Luai ion 850k, RFH on 850k, Yeo on 850k, Cleary 1.2 million when they signed Garner, Sorenson and Hosking. Stop making excuses for Spoon signing old fwds.

Josh might be a good person but the last decent football he played was when Des had him firing in the backrow. There was no grounds to extend him on an 850k contract. The fact his contract was mutually terminated a few months later is inexcusable. A total failure in retention by Spoon and co. The extra 200k a season could have been added to whatever we are paying Tevaga to land a quality backrower.

 

[47MVEagle]

The Bulldogs quartet I put up as an example come to 3.2 - 3.4 million according to the contracts reported in the media. Penrith had Luai ion 850k, RFH on 850k, Yeo on 850k, Cleary 1.2 million when they signed Garner, Sorenson and Hosking. Stop making excuses for Spoon signing old fwds.

Josh might be a good person but the last decent football he played was when Des had him firing in the backrow. There was no grounds to extend him on an 850k contract. The fact his contract was mutually terminated a few months later is inexcusable. A total failure in retention by Spoon and co. The extra 200k a season could have been added to whatever we are paying Tevaga to land a quality backrower.

You have quite a selective memory biff.

You've forgotten that it was under Des' control that the club moved the entire Fainu family to Elanora Heights, gave Latu the largest contract yet for a junior & continued to pay all 4 of the boys (including Manase) for the 2 or 3 years while he was awaiting trial.

Des even visited Manase in gaol several times & was convinced of his innocence, only for him to be found guilty & for his 3 brothers to get out of here as fast as possible when Sione requested an early release & also when Manly refused to match Wests offer to Samuela & Latu.

Instead you focus on the Schuster situation when it was blatantly obvious to anyone with half a brain that the kid was suffering mental health issues, no doubt related to watching his best mate die in front of him at training, which no doubt added to the club's sense of obligation towards Josh, which was taken full advantage of by Tartak during a period of changing of the guard at the club (Des out).

Des was also responsible for at least one extension/upgrade of Schuster too.

 

[Rafferty]

I think it’s all far more complicated, it’s not just about the big 3 or 4 and how there performing, throw in the term of the deals, the qualities of the individuals in concern (from a playing perspective) the vision for the future, the direction the games going in, the impact on building a competitive squad around the big 3, there strengths, weaknesses, blah, blah

Won’t be much different if we sign Galvin, unless there’s a clear plan to build a side that he prospers in, a side capable of physically and aerobically competing in the modern game, one with depth and or a roster that can be manipulated to assist, as an example, big plodding middles are so outdated, don’t start me on old, unfit, slow, laterally impaired pension boosters, it’s very depressing facing up to the situation our club finds itself in.

The whole internal mind set is toxic, to literally come out and declare your in a premiership window, please, the psychological impact on the playing group shows, we don’t aim up, thinking we just have to turn up, it’s happened so many times, it’s embarrassing, we can’t string a set of performances together to save ourselves, the mentality is all wrong along with, well pretty much everything.

If you build a team, to compete week in week out for the full 80, (ie the dogs, look what can happen) you can take that group somewhere, players need to be hungry to understand, not confused with we have the weapons, we can score the points, we are a real premiership threat, where in the window man, let’s go, absolute garbage and the evidence is clear. You’ve never hear Bellamy, Bennett, Blobo and Co talk their sides up or their prospects, I’m sure you get where I’m coming from.

Our whole culture is toxic, the players have trouble getting in the grind and for the help of god, can’t stay there, it’s time to clean the joint out, top to bottom, baring the obvious couple we can work with, anything else will pretty much just see more of the same old same old, our club appears to be in for a very rough ride looking ahead, sweep it clean, end the delusions and have a crack at a Bulldogs style rebuild, that all starts with a appointing a coach that can be respected, its not rocket science, looking from the outside in, you can just see Seibs doesn’t have it, without venturing in to analysing his on field results, if you don’t get what I’m trying to sell, I don’t care, if you think Seibs will take Manly to a premiership, then that’s great, your loving our prospects and enjoying the footy, thats where we see it so very differently.

 

[47MVEagle]

How did the Panthers manage to sign Scott Sorensen, Luke Garner, David Hosking, Isaiah Papalii and the like despite having Cleary, Edwards, Yeo, Martin, To'o and many others on big contracts? What about the Dogs? They have Kikau, Burton, Mahoney, Crichton on big coin. I don't see them signing washed up, slow in the legs forwards. I won't even bother with the Storm or Roosters.

Maybe because they had let go of Kikau, Burton, Crichton & several other lesser players (Naden, Staines) as well as Luai more recently, prior to signing them?

 

[Hertera]

Josh might be a good person but the last decent football he played was when Des had him firing in the backrow. There was no grounds to extend him on an 850k contract. The fact his contract was mutually terminated a few months later is inexcusable. A total failure in retention by Spoon and co. The extra 200k a season could have been added to whatever we are paying Tevaga to land a quality backrower.

Agree with that the Schuster **** show was a joke how he got an extension on those dollars was a shocking waste of cap space.

 

[Rocky]

The Bulldogs quartet I put up as an example come to 3.2 - 3.4 million according to the contracts reported in the media. Penrith had Luai ion 850k, RFH on 850k, Yeo on 850k, Cleary 1.2 million when they signed Garner, Sorenson and Hosking. Stop making excuses for Spoon signing old fwds.

Josh might be a good person but the last decent football he played was when Des had him firing in the backrow. There was no grounds to extend him on an 850k contract. The fact his contract was mutually terminated a few months later is inexcusable. A total failure in retention by Spoon and co. The extra 200k a season could have been added to whatever we are paying Tevaga to land a quality backrower.

"The fact his contract was mutually terminated a few months later is inexcusable"

So you would have preferred them not to terminate the Schuster contract and pay him 800k to eat KFC and play Reggie's for 3 years?

Bar probably Melbourne, every team has good and also bad contracts. That's life in professional sports and even the general workplace.

The Schuster contract extension was horrendous - no one will dispute that. But getting out of it for a fraction of it was probably as good as they could do to correct the initial mistake.

For your reference Newcastle have Jackson Hastings playing in Reggie's on 800k a year.

 

[Thewestisbest]

You have quite a selective memory biff.

You've forgotten that it was under Des' control that the club moved the entire Fainu family to Elanora Heights, gave Latu the largest contract yet for a junior & continued to pay all 4 of the boys (including Manase) for the 2 or 3 years while he was awaiting trial.

Des even visited Manase in gaol several times & was convinced of his innocence, only for him to be found guilty & for his 3 brothers to get out of here as fast as possible when Sione requested an early release & also when Manly refused to match Wests offer to Samuela & Latu.

Instead you focus on the Schuster situation when it was blatantly obvious to anyone with half a brain that the kid was suffering mental health issues, no doubt related to watching his best mate die in front of him at training, which no doubt added to the club's sense of obligation towards Josh, which was taken full advantage of by Tartak during a period of changing of the guard at the club (Des out).

Des was also responsible for at least one extension/upgrade of Schuster too.

Des was punted three seasons ago. Stick to the topic please. This thread is about Spoon and his performance which is now into a third season.

 

[Thewestisbest]

I think it’s all far more complicated, it’s not just about the big 3 or 4 and how there performing, throw in the term of the deals, the qualities of the individuals in concern (from a playing perspective) the vision for the future, the direction the games going in, the impact on building a competitive squad around the big 3, there strengths, weaknesses, blah, blah

Won’t be much different if we sign Galvin, unless there’s a clear plan to build a side that he prospers in, a side capable of physically and aerobically competing in the modern game, one with depth and or a roster that can be manipulated to assist, as an example, big plodding middles are so outdated, don’t start me on old, unfit, slow, laterally impaired pension boosters, it’s very depressing facing up to the situation our club finds itself in.

The whole internal mind set is toxic, to literally come out and declare your in a premiership window, please, the psychological impact on the playing group shows, we don’t aim up, thinking we just have to turn up, it’s happened so many times, it’s embarrassing, we can’t string a set of performances together to save ourselves, the mentality is all wrong along with, well pretty much everything.

If you build a team, to compete week in week out for the full 80, (ie the dogs, look what can happen) you can take that group somewhere, players need to be hungry to understand, not confused with we have the weapons, we can score the points, we are a real premiership threat, where in the window man, let’s go, absolute garbage and the evidence is clear. You’ve never hear Bellamy, Bennett, Blobo and Co talk their sides up or their prospects, I’m sure you get where I’m coming from.

Our whole culture in toxic, the players have trouble getting in the grind and for the help of god, can’t stay there, it’s time to clean the joint out, top to bottom, baring the obvious couple we can work with, anything else will pretty much just see more of the same old same old, our club appears to be in for a very rough ride looking ahead, sweep it clean, end the delusions and have a crack at a Bulldogs style rebuild, that all starts with a appointing a coach that can be respected, its not rocket science, looking from the outside in, you can just see Seibs doesn’t have it, without venturing in to analysing his on field results, if you don’t get what I’m trying to sell, I don’t care, if you think Seibs will take Manly to a premiership, then that’s great, your loving our prospects and enjoying the footy, thats where we see it so very differently.

Maybe because they had let go of Kikau, Burton, Crichton & several other lesser players (Naden, Staines) as well as Luai more recently, prior to signing them?

Great we agree. So you don't have to sign a bunch of old forwards then. It must just be a Manly thing.

 

[Thewestisbest]

Agree with that the Schuster **** show was a joke how he got an extension on those dollars was a shocking waste of cap space.

Apparently it's Dessie's fault according to @47MVEagle

Spoon and the club were just being compassionate.

 

[47MVEagle]

Des was punted three seasons ago. Stick to the topic please. This thread is about Spoon and his performance which is now into a third season.

I'll talk about whatever I like in this thread, biff.

You can also use the excuse of me not sticking to the thread topic as a way of avoiding answering my post too!

 

[47MVEagle]

Great we agree. So you don't have to sign a bunch of old forwards then. It must just be a Manly thing.

No biff, but continue being obtuse because it doesn't suit your agenda.

 

[47MVEagle]

Apparently it's Dessie's fault according to @47MVEagle

Spoon and the club were just being compassionate.

That's it biff, let the butthurt run through you.

How many posts before you're insulting me in Arabic or calling my mother a whore? 🙂

 

[Thewestisbest]

I'll talk about whatever I like in this thread, biff.

You can also use the excuse of me not sticking to the thread topic as a way of avoiding answering my post too!

I will answer your silly question.

He's a very naughty boy is Tartak. Or a brilliant genius. He somehow got our club who could clearly see that Josh was suffering from mental issues to look past the obvious red flags of weight gain, mental demons and terrible form. He got them feeling all compassionate then asked for an extension of 850k. You are ridiculous buddy. More like he threatened to take Josh to Tigertown.

 

[Thewestisbest]

That's it biff, let the butthurt run through you.

How many posts before you're insulting me in Arabic or calling my mother a whore? 🙂

Whaaaaaaat? Are you okay mate?

 

[47MVEagle]

I will answer your silly question.

He's a very naughty boy is Tartak. Or a brilliant genius. He somehow got our club who could clearly see that Josh was suffering from mental issues to look past the obvious red flags of weight gain, mental demons and terrible form. He got them feeling all compassionate then asked for an extension of 850k. You are ridiculous buddy. More like he threatened to take Josh to Tigertown.

Benji didn't want him.

Dessie was responsible for resigning Schuster for 3 years too:

'My future's here': Schuster commits to long Manly stint after rejecting rugby

Sea Eagles rookie locked in long-term.

www.nrl.com

 

[Thewestisbest]

Benji didn't want him.

Dessie was responsible for resigning Schuster for 3 years too:

'My future's here': Schuster commits to long Manly stint after rejecting rugby

Sea Eagles rookie locked in long-term.

www.nrl.com

Yes he was. That was during the only time Josh was actually playing consistent first grade football in the back row. What don't you get about that? And Des didn't cancel the contract a few months later though did he. At a cost of 200k per year for the next crew seasons.

 

[Thewestisbest]

Benji didn't want him.

Dessie was responsible for resigning Schuster for 3 years too:

'My future's here': Schuster commits to long Manly stint after rejecting rugby

Sea Eagles rookie locked in long-term.

www.nrl.com

Josh went on to have his best season in first grade after signing the contract in 2021.

 

[Phobia]

I think Kikau, Burton, Crichton and Mahoney combined, are on massive coin. I think this idea that we are hamstrung by big contacts is a myth. The cap has gone up so much that we can have these big contacts and assemble a strong squad. The issue is not a cap out of whack, it’s our performances.

I have no issue with how the cap has been balanced, I have an issue with how little football Tom plays, how one of them doesn’t want to be here anymore, and how slow Jake has gotten. It’s not an imbalanced cap if those guys were giving us their best versions of themselves.

What I mean to say is I think it’s pretty normal to have so much tied up in a few players. We just aren’t getting our money’s worth from two (at times three when DCE turns it up) that is the issue.

Yep, probably should've made this clear. If Turbo, Jake and DCE are all playing to that coin, there is no problem. At market value however, they are all producing performances below those figures, whereas at the Bulldogs those mentioned players are playing to their value.