Rift between Manly players and officials set to widen

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bones said:
Quoting an un-named player? Lol. Must be true then. As If the Telegraph have morals and wouldn't print the players name who said it. If it were true and a player was quoted they would include his name.

On that basis you have set out seeing that the telegraph (and some people on this forum) has been naming the board and Reilly in particular as being the main reason why Des left then why hasn't Reilly and the board come out with an e-mail to the members refuting the newspapers claims and telling the true story?

By setting out the facts it would probably stop most of the rumour and inuendo on the forums and maybe even the telegraph?

Or are they worried that Des might come back in response with a different version of events?
 
tookey said:
bones said:
Quoting an un-named player? Lol. Must be true then. As If the Telegraph have morals and wouldn't print the players name who said it. If it were true and a player was quoted they would include his name.

On that basis you have set out seeing that the telegraph (and some people on this forum) has been naming the board and Reilly in particular as being the main reason why Des left then why hasn't Reilly and the board come out with an e-mail to the members refuting the newspapers claims and telling the true story?

By setting out the facts it would probably stop most of the rumour and inuendo on the forums and maybe even the telegraph?

Or are they worried that Des might come back in response with a different version of events?

Ding
Ding
Ding

We have a winner
 
WAMF said:
Cambo said:
Those pointing the finger so predictably at zorbs here. I do believe he is overseas atm

I understand the club has paid Zorba his entire 2012 annual salary, as severance for being a long serving, crap, disrespectful, out of date media manager.
He should be flying first class all the way with the hefty payout he grabbed with both hands.

WAMF I have been as vocal as anyone in how the club and Zorba handled the digital side of the business (and the "good sort" drama) but I do not think it serves anyone to get as personal as you seem to be keen to do

Zorba served the club for a number of years. Yes it has been has his job and he has been rewarded for it however there should be some respect shown
 
Cambo, you and Tookes must be blind if you missed Vid's posts.
As a FC board member, Vid took the time to lay out the facts, not speculation.
I didn't see anyone other than mata dispute those facts.
What more do you bloody want?

Fact - Penn was directly involved in Des' negotiations and has publicly stated that it was a matter of the clubs finances not being in the most healthy of states as the reason for not having extended Hasler's contract.

Fact - The Penn family were aware of the board structure PRIOR to agreeing to buy in to the Sea Eagles and become a major owner.

Fact - Scott Penn has now decided that the structure he agreed too, is unfair and has stated so publicly.

Fact- Zorba is a proxy for the Penn family and any seat he may gain as a result of overthrowing Reilly, will fall into the Penn's hands and give them the numbers they need to run the club however they see fit. At the same time, diminishing the role that the FC plays as an independent minor owner and thus preventing fans/members from having any kind of say.
 
Fact - Vid has stated he was not aware of the state of negotiations (it was a specific sub committee. The only information he received was that things were progressing)

Therefore the information is second hand. Much like all the other information we receive and as such, just like everything else, should be taken with a pinch of salt

Do you not find it interesting how this has suddenly become Penns "fault"
 
So Isz, you also missed the 'fact' that Vidmar and Jonesey have spelled out regarding the unanimous vote to retain Hasler by the FC?

lsz said:
Fact - Vid has stated he was not aware of the state of negotiations (it was a specific sub committee. The only information he received was that things were progressing)

Therefore the information is second hand. Much like all the other information we receive and as such, just like everything else, should be taken with a pinch of salt

Do you not find it interesting how this has suddenly become Penns "fault"

Can you please dispute the 2 facts below. Thanks.

Fact - The Penn family were aware of the board structure PRIOR to agreeing to buy in to the Sea Eagles and become a major owner.

Fact - Scott Penn has now decided that the structure he agreed too, is unfair and has stated so publicly.
 
WAMF said:
Cambo, you and Tookes must be blind if you missed Vid's posts.
As a FC board member, Vid took the time to lay out the facts, not speculation.
I didn't see anyone other than mata dispute those facts.
What more do you bloody want?

Fact - Penn was directly involved in Des' negotiations and has publicly stated that it was a matter of the clubs finances not being in the most healthy of states as the reason for not having extended Hasler's contract.

Fact - The Penn family were aware of the board structure PRIOR to agreeing to buy in to the Sea Eagles and become a major owner.

Fact - Scott Penn has now decided that the structure he agreed too, is unfair and has stated so publicly.

Fact- Zorba is a proxy for the Penn family and any seat he may gain as a result of overthrowing Reilly, will fall into the Penn's hands and give them the numbers they need to run the club however they see fit. At the same time, diminishing the role that the FC plays as an independent minor owner and thus preventing fans/members from having any kind of say.
No mate not blind just open
Minded. You need to remember there is 3 sides to every story, yours, mine and the truth.

No disrespect to vid or jonesy but things do not seem to be as cut and dry as we are led to believe.
 
A couple of things

A vote to retain is different to actual negotiations. At this stage the only "talk" (again until it is directly from Des i am taking this with a pinch of salt) has been of interference from Reilly.

I feel that the truth will never come out however what is plainly clear is that the current board structure is not sustainable.

Penn is the one who keeps the club afloat. He opens his wallet to make sure the majority of shortfalls are meet. Without him we do not have a club

For mind that means he should have control of how the business is run. If he wants to appoint a donkey in charge of the team so be it

He is the major $ man. He deserves to have more control otherwise we will not have a club
 
WAMF said:
So Isz, you also missed the 'fact' that Vidmar and Jonesey have spelled out regarding the unanimous vote to retain Hasler by the FC?

lsz said:
Fact - Vid has stated he was not aware of the state of negotiations (it was a specific sub committee. The only information he received was that things were progressing)

Therefore the information is second hand. Much like all the other information we receive and as such, just like everything else, should be taken with a pinch of salt

Do you not find it interesting how this has suddenly become Penns "fault"

Can you please dispute the 2 facts below. Thanks.

Fact - The Penn family were aware of the board structure PRIOR to agreeing to buy in to the Sea Eagles and become a major owner.

Fact - Scott Penn has now decided that the structure he agreed too, is unfair and has stated so publicly.


Just because something was right in 2004 doesn't mean it's right in 2011 mate. In the business world things change almost daily. It's common practice for organizations to restructure from time to time.

Just ask yourself this question of the current owners who has kicked in the most cash and how much say do the penns have for that.
 
WAMF said:
Cambo, you and Tookes must be blind if you missed Vid's posts.
As a FC board member, Vid took the time to lay out the facts, not speculation.
I didn't see anyone other than mata dispute those facts.
What more do you bloody want?

Maybe there are some in the club who don't need to resort to petty politicking and spin-doctoring? The harsh reality here is as it was set out in Penn's interview on BSB.

"The problem we have is organisations demanding a large say in Sea Eagles operations without tipping money in to cover losses".


FACT: The financial amount the FC has contributed to Sea Eagles operations over the last two years is barely enough to cover the cost of providing GF rings to Reilly and Gainsford Tailor!
 
Ok let's play devils advocate here.

Lets say for a minute Scott Penn and his hidden agendas are the cause of all the boardroom troubles at the club.

If we can get him to walk away CAN the leagues club and football club prop the club up financially????

Sadly we all know that answer to that one :(

I think we all know
 
WAMF said:
Fact - The Penn family were aware of the board structure PRIOR to agreeing to buy in to the Sea Eagles and become a major owner.

Fact - Scott Penn has now decided that the structure he agreed too, is unfair and has stated so publicly.

FACT: Back in 2004 Delmege (Surfside) was Mr Moneybags supposedly and the FC were gung-ho that with all the millions that would flow from club memberships they would buy the entire club back for the fans in 20 years.

Now Delmege is broke, the FC have tipped in $18k over two years and PennSports seems to be left carrying the can for operational losses which are a reality for 14/16 clubs.

So I wonder who could be called for putting out false pretences in 2004? Maybe not Max as pre-GFC he would have thought the good times would roll. But the FC????

You still need to answer this question: Will there even be a Manly to try and go back-to-back next year should Penn take his 2/7 votes and his millions and go home? I'd view a proxy as a cheap insurance policy against this monstrous scorched earth worst case scenario (which is not as unlikely as you might think).

Cambo said:
Ok let's play devils advocate here.

Lets say for a minute Scott Penn and his hidden agendas are the cause of all the boardroom troubles at the club.

If we can get him to walk away CAN the leagues club and football club prop the club up financially????

Sadly we all know that answer to that one :(

I think we all know

Manly would not see out 2011. They have already asked for their November NRL grant of $320,000 to be paid forward.
 
Oh the topic.

So the NRL get 25 or 30 rings commissioned for 6K each and give the gut a year to do them. Manly want possibly 9 and are lookning for a group discount so they can get them for 15 k

WTF

Either the NRL cant negotiate
or maybe, just maybe manly are only getting a couple of rings for the owners. And what the hell is wrong with that. If i had an extra 6k id get one
 
Isz, don't get me wrong. I have nothing but respect for the Penn family and the huge amounts of money and time they have contributed to the club. However, what some are forgetting, is that the privatisation deal was structured in such a way as to prevent any one owner, from gaining full and complete control of the Sea Eagles. We presently have an owner publicly stating that the structure needs to change in order for them to gain/buy, more power.
 
jbb/james said:
Oh the topic.

So the NRL get 25 or 30 rings commissioned for 6K each and give the gut a year to do them. Manly want possibly 9 and are lookning for a group discount so they can get them for 15 k

WTF

Either the NRL cant negotiate
or maybe, just maybe manly are only getting a couple of rings for the owners. And what the hell is wrong with that. If i had an extra 6k id get one

They couldn't afford to fly our team mascot to Suncorp for Manly's home game against Brisbane. If money is that scarce at the joint then this is a waste of it.
 
Cambo said:
Just ask yourself this question of the current owners who has kicked in the most cash and how much say do the penns have for that.

That's an easy one.

The Leagues Club have put in the most money since privatisation at about $5.1 million.

Surfside is next at just under $5 million.

The Penns are a distant third at about $3.1 million.

All of these figures exclude sponsorship which would only push Penn even further behind.
 
WAMF said:
Isz, don't get me wrong. I have nothing but respect for the Penn family and the huge amounts of money and time they have contributed to the club. However, what some are forgetting, is that the privatisation deal was structured in such a way as to prevent any one owner, from gaining full and complete control of the Sea Eagles. We presently have an owner publicly stating that the structure needs to change in order for them to gain/buy, more power.

And herein you betray your presupposition that private ownership is bad, m'kay? The FC retain a preference share to veto any move of the club, which is more than most professional sporting entities do. This preference share exists regardless of their representation on the Board of operations. Given they have contributed a paltry $9k per year it is incnceivable that they should have 2/7 votes on the Board, and have such free reig and access in operational matters as they do.

westbec said:
Cambo said:
Just ask yourself this question of the current owners who has kicked in the most cash and how much say do the penns have for that.

That's an easy one.

The Leagues Club have put in the most money since privatisation at about $5.1 million.

Surfside is next at just under $5 million.

The Penns are a distant third at about $3.1 million.

All of these figures exclude sponsorship which would only push Penn even further behind.

History is interesting. The future is more important.

Are the Leagues Club and Surfside in any position to cover their equity share of losses going forward? We all know the scare campaign that is being waged about the impact of pre-commitment on pokies and the impact on RL clubs. Delmege can't sell his assets even though they are marked below what he paid for them. The Federal government has turned off the tap on solar hot water subsidies.

And we all know the FC has no chance of contributing substantially. $18.75k in two years!
 
Cambo said:
Ok let's play devils advocate here.

Lets say for a minute Scott Penn and his hidden agendas are the cause of all the boardroom troubles at the club.

If we can get him to walk away CAN the leagues club and football club prop the club up financially????

Sadly we all know that answer to that one :(

I think we all know

If Penn left, another private owner would step in, the same way Quantum stepped in when Delmege wanted out.

There are plenty of cashed up people who would love to be able to say I own my football team so the world won't end if Penns decided they had had enough.
 

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