Referendum

[Highflier]

Mostly on YES ads and millions of Yes flyers.

wasted on elites preaching to elites (hence the voting pattern) ,and the cost of Albanese's ego ,he will be forever condemned for what he has knowingly constructed. He was warned many times but chose to ignore it as he knew better .The only bright spot is Jacinta Nampijinpa Price who hopefully can steer the ship from constantly looking backwards to looking forwards and taking agency over personal decisions and rejecting victim hood and providing opportunities to everyone whether they be black white or brindle (whatever that is )

 

[Eagle 1]

wasted on elites preaching to elites (hence the voting pattern) ,and the cost of Albanese's ego ,he will be forever condemned for what he has knowingly constructed. He was warned many times but chose to ignore it as he knew better .The only bright spot is Jacinta Nampijinpa Price who hopefully can steer the ship from constantly looking backwards to looking forwards and taking agency over personal decisions and rejecting victim hood and providing opportunities to everyone whether they be black white or brindle (whatever that is )

Yep, Elites preaching to Elites...oh wait, this must be Canberra then.

 

[Highflier]

Yep, Elites preaching to Elites...oh wait, this must be Canberra then.

well it was pretty much just the teal seats ,Canberra and the inner city seats of Sydney and Melbourne that voted yes ,tells you everything you need to know Eagle 1

 

[Eagle 1]

well it was pretty much just the teal seats ,Canberra and the inner city seats of Sydney and Melbourne that voted yes ,tells you everything you need to know Eagle 1

Certainly does, the political landscape has certainly changed somewhat. It's pretty fluid out there in battler land these days.

 

[Eagle 1]

Holy crap, just reading this referendum cost $400M.....

Make it 450m..

 

[The '47ers]

Start with an official treaty, whatever day it's signed call it "Uluru Day" or similar. Make that our new National day.
Then go from there.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Yep, Elites preaching to Elites...oh wait, this must be Canberra then.

well it was pretty much just the teal seats ,Canberra and the inner city seats of Sydney and Melbourne that voted yes ,tells you everything you need to know Eagle 1

Why did you forget to mention the other people who strongly backed Yes - remote Indigenous communities?

OK their views aren't important to you, but have you considered that possibly that is one of the things that needs to change?


By the way this is being reported in all news media, for example:

Indigenous communities overwhelmingly voted yes to Australia’s voice to parliament

 

[The '47ers]

https://www.news.com.au/national/queensland/politics/never-heard-of-such-a-thing-homeless-indigenous-population-in-cairns-do-not-know-what-the-voice-is/news-story/611b6a9bbc7b074ec9ff1cd702b9731b

 

[Eagle 1]

Was only signaling out the Canberra Elites of any color plus bureaucrats no one else. Also, where is the supposed 80% indigenous vote, it currently stands at 63% well short of what Burney would have us believe.

 

[Technical Coach]

The real shame is that due to rubbish like this we will see it fail to get up

Every one of these points is easily explained and clarified but would not make a difference to people like bozo.

I am yet to read or hear a coherent argument against what is an advisory body

It's not required considering the high percentage of Aboriginals relative to population that represent in parliament.

There is no way such an advisory board with all the promotion and advertised "significance" behind it will be set up and not have huge indirect influence over Govt decision making, it would look like a joke if nothing of major influence came of it and create conflict because of a lack of impact.

Living off the land to me doesn't make one the owners of the land, there has to be some level of intellectual formal displays of ownership for records sake plus productive use of the land beyond just "surviving" and the mapping of all it's borders in my eyes to stake a claim of ownership.(otherwise the birds and the bees can lay claim to ownership)

I support high levels of financial assistance to help the indigenous improve relative to other groups no problem with that, but not in the form of reparations.

If nearly 35-37% of indigenous people voted "no"(by some reports) to me that is a large enough minority to suggest it needs more thinking over.

 

[lsz]

It's not required considering the high percentage of Aboriginals relative to population that represent in parliament.

There is no way such an advisory board with all the promotion and advertised "significance" behind it will be set up and not have huge indirect influence over Govt decision making, it would look like a joke if nothing of major influence came of it and create conflict because of a lack of impact.

Living off the land to me doesn't make one the owners of the land, there has to be some level of intellectual formal displays of ownership for records sake plus productive use of the land beyond just "surviving" and the mapping of all it's borders in my eyes to stake a claim of ownership.(otherwise the birds and the bees can lay claim to ownership)

I support high levels of financial assistance to help the indigenous improve relative to other groups no problem with that, but not in the form of reparations.

If nearly 35-37% of indigenous people voted "no"(by some reports) to me that is a large enough minority to suggest it needs more thinking over.

For me we will look back at this with a strong sense of embarrasment in future years.

As for 35/37% for me if it is a majority then it is a majority

 

[Technical Coach]

For me we will look back at this with a strong sense of embarrasment in future years.

As for 35/37% for me if it is a majority then it is a majority

Context being when such a large minority(of indigenous) are not satisfied with the changes or not in favour at all it gives added weight to the no vote and less to be supposedly embarrassed about if long term it is seen as a mistake.

It was a token gesture of no benefit whatsoever other than to be abused by the weak minded and create more conflict down the track.

The Uluru Statement from the Heart is "technically" only a one page statement but the other 25 pages of dialogue history show a more broad ranging very conflict encouraging mindset even if such views are not included in the "one page statement"

To suggest the dialogue pages were not "hidden" because most were "freely" available is more playing to the "hidden in plain site" benefits and cleverly done. In other words can't be accused of hiding something that is freely available so nothing to fear yet we know if this dialogue and history was promoted alongside the statement it would not enhance the statements appeal.

The dialogue and history leading up to the statement backs up the fears many from the No side had anyway but would of been seen as "conspiracy or racist mindset" without this confirmation.

 

[BOZO]

There are pros and cons for both teams
But.....
Its Time to accept the Refs Referendum decision and move on

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

The dialogue and history leading up to the statement backs up the fears many from the No side had anyway but would of been seen as "conspiracy or racist mindset" without this confirmation.

Got it in one, TC. The No campaign was all about fear. And yes, racism.

Its Time to accept the Refs Referendum decision and move on

So as a proud No voter, where are you moving on to, exactly?
Or did you just mean, "Phew, lucky I don't have to think about the problems of First Nations people any more"...?

 

[Technical Coach]

Got it in one, TC. The No campaign was all about fear. And yes, racism.

So as a proud No voter, where are you moving on to, exactly?
Or did you just mean, "Phew, lucky I don't have to think about the problems of First Nations people any more"...?

Warranted fears backed up by the dialogue history behind The Heart. Are you suggesting "fear" is not an allowable reason/element to be considered before making a decision especially when there is recorded history of the mindset.

For most the no vote had zero to do with the "racism" angle you seem to be inferring and more about cost blow outs, over representation and influence, favouring a specific race of people over others yet funded by all and if it is funded by all Australians the groups make up should be voted on by all Australians.

There is already per capita extra financial assistance to indigenous people along with the added cost of implementing funding due to location.(and i support the extra per capita funding to help try and close the gap)

How do you think The Voice will improve outcomes when there is already large funding and a large representation in parliament of indigenous leaders. Maybe the one potential advantage would be "better targeted funding" "if" the group gets it's decision making right which will probably be nullified by the huge expense of funding the voice.

Cultural differences, different priorities and preserving traditional ways are the biggest causes and hurdles of reducing the gap in my opinion. The Voice will have little impact in this area. Sure racism and stereotypical based mindsets in non indigenous Australians exists (less now than in the past) which will impact or make it more difficult for some to be employed that is for sure but this is not limited to Indigenous Australians either.

In my experience all people who work hard and come across in a respectful manner to others for the most part flourish in life, you don't see race when you just get along.

Trendlines in poverty rates over more than 20yrs reveals(according to GPT-4) that in almost all cases poverty rates for indigenous populations fall more slowly than for the non Indigenous which means the gap seemingly gets worse even though improvements are made, now do we view this as improvement or not.

If you dwell on the past you are not appreciating or enjoying the present and delaying a happier more prosperous future, i say this to all areas of life and world conflicts----(for example i don't support Poland seeking more reparations from Germany)

There comes a time when you have to move on otherwise you just reverse the issue and create hatred and animosity in the present population over things they did not contribute to, struggle to relate to but are paying for. Some will argue "but you still benefit from the actions of the past" so you have a duty to pay back, who gives them the right to judge or have the moral high ground.

I'm born in Australia just at a much later part of history, i had no choice in the same way the indigenous of years gone past, are we not equals and only time is our difference.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

In my experience all people who work hard and come across in a respectful manner to others for the most part flourish in life, you don't see race when you just get along.

Ah, so those one or two people not ‘flourishing’ obviously must be lazy or disrespectful? So it’s all their own fault!

TC this attitude surely is not really based on your experience? It could only be based on a fairy tale. Do you not believe in the existence of brutality and oppression? Privilege maintained by force? Can you so easily justify suffering occurring this very day all around the world? Violence hunger discrimination?

This is classic ‘I’m all right Jack’. Life looks pretty darn fair (especially if you’re white, male, hetero, literate, and happy to cop what the boss orders). God’s in his heaven and all’s right with the world.

 

[Technical Coach]

Ah, so those one or two people not ‘flourishing’ obviously must be lazy or disrespectful? So it’s all their own fault!

TC this attitude surely is not really based on your experience? It could only be based on a fairy tale. Do you not believe in the existence of brutality and oppression? Privilege maintained by force? Can you so easily justify suffering occurring this very day all around the world? Violence hunger discrimination?

This is classic ‘I’m all right Jack’. Life looks pretty darn fair (especially if you’re white, male, hetero, literate, and happy to cop what the boss orders). God’s in his heaven and all’s right with the world.

There is always exceptions to the rule be it hard working, law abiding, respectful types not flourishing and lazy disrespectful types that flourish----that is not saying all lazy people are disrespectful and not law abiding either. (usually you take that angle in your reply style so i "arrogantly" addressed that ahead of time)

Have i not repeatedly said that i support the extra funding per capita to help or improve the chances of reducing the gap, which means I'm aware there are issues that need improving or assistance towards the indigenous.

Do you feel there hasn't been improvements already and we should follow the lead of say other countries to improve the situation and gap.

Take NZ for example they appear to be further along the path to maybe how you view things should be heading and there is still a huge gap and just as many conflicts and issues being debated over.

For example life expectancy, medium income relative to other Australians and education levels are pretty much mirror images with the gap Maori's have with the rest of NZ population. Over 50% of the prison population in NZ is Maori and we all know that Aboriginal incarcerations are high also.

Sure this needs addressing and continuously seeking ways to improve the situation but there is also contrasting cultures in play that will limit progress no matter how much is done financially or legislatively wise.

 

[Uber Eagle 72]

Judging people on identity alone say on race, sex, religion etc is only part of the picture. In Australia there are 10 times more men in jail then there are women. What does this tell us if we all supposedly equal when it comes to gender? Are not men supposedly more privileged then women and have been somewhat deemed as the oppressor gender? There is of course a lot more to this dynamic than just gender. The same applies when making generalisations etc on who or shall I say what identity classification is supposedly the oppressed or the oppressor. I am not trying to say there are not people out there with Aboriginal dna suffering. I know there is but any solution is much more complicated than just making assumptions based purely upon someone’s identity classification. There are some people out there screaming thier land has been stolen and they carry more Western European dna than Aboriginal dna. This only tells us there is so much more to identity than just so called racial identity. The only way to truly fix the past is by making tomorrow better…and to do that we need to forgive the past not judge it retrospectively based upon the moral equivalence of today. This only leads to further division.