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Random thoughts...

Smokin Joe

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Been thinking about how many opinions there are on here about what type of players we need and how we should do things etc....
Realized just how almost polar opposite the two grand finals sides are and yet both made it to the GF.
When you look at the type of player that they have in their respective positions you realize how different they are.
The centres for the Storm(Olam and Lee) are more hard running tradesmen type and defenders,whilst the Panthers duo of Crighton and Naden are taller athletic types(more attacking types).
The wingers for the Storm(A-Carr and Vunivalu) are very fast and tall,athletic types whilst the 2 Panthers wingers are shorter,powerful types and more quick than fast.
The fullbacks are also opposites,Papa is a lightning quick, pop up everywhere attacking type whilst Edwards is a more solid dependable type.
Smith at hooker is a game manager and kicker whilst Api is more a livewire runner and tough defender.
The forward packs are also very different,the Storm are more an up and down hard running straight ahead type with an occasional offload whilst the Panthers are a more athletic and mobile and less conservative pack.(you see it in how the edge forwards play as well,with Bromwich and Kaufusi more hard straight runners where Kikau and Martin are more mobile and not so conservative)
Interestingly the real similarity is that both sides have 2 high quality halves,both with vision and great attacking qualities(even though not identical players).Cleary does more the game managing where Smith does it for the Storm and allows both their halves to just play what they see,whereas Api has more of a dart and run than Smith does.
I think DCE and Schuster working together will do wonders for us as long as Des gets rid of the up and in defence and works more a sliding defence,I hear people complaining that we give yardage easily but most sides do,you need to bend and not break I believe,give up some yards but don't let your line be broken whether up the middle or on the edges or out wide with kicks behind play etc...,this combined with having good goal line defence will be more useful than having to scramble when teams break the line.
it is too hard to try and keep teams pinned on their line for any length of time(although an improved short kicking game would help),with the new rules it is too easy to get out of trouble by a slow player getting off the tackled player or a guy offside etc...
Edit..If we can get useful service from Foran and Cust at dummy half(or another signing as it so far until season start) to help with game management it will help tremendously until Fainu(hopefully) returns.
 
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maxta

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I think there was another major difference that worried me about the GF leading up to it and unfortunately...played out.
Penrith were so used to building on he back of momentum and quick tempo and the extra time allowed in tackles and also the very skinny 10m including defenders allowed to (jump) early, really effected their style and played into the hands of the Storm...Bellamy and Smith game plan I hate to say it, again controlled the outcome more so than anything else.
They are very contrasting sides and the defence, again which got away with far more latitude than a club game, took out the opportunity to win this game purely on defensive ability, which worked against the starry eyed Penrith side.
Ok....the question of "what" style player would benefit Manly and I go for more speed in the middle and onm the edges as with the backline as it should be (injury free)...there is a huge amount of points in them.
Therefore in a dream I say Cam Murray, in reality Creighton or the other big unsigned Rooster ?? would be ideal and I really believe, if Ben Turbo can defend well, is an ideal edge who will create massive problems for opposition defence and has a great combination with Schuster and we just may already have 1 area solved without realising it...
 

Mark from Brisbane

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I think there was another major difference that worried me about the GF leading up to it and unfortunately...played out.
Penrith were so used to building on he back of momentum and quick tempo and the extra time allowed in tackles and also the very skinny 10m including defenders allowed to (jump) early, really effected their style and played into the hands of the Storm...Bellamy and Smith game plan I hate to say it, again controlled the outcome more so than anything else.
They are very contrasting sides and the defence, again which got away with far more latitude than a club game, took out the opportunity to win this game purely on attacking ability, which worked against the starry eyed Penrith side.
Ok....the question of "what" style player would benefit Manly and I go for more speed in the middle and onm the edges as with the backline as it should be (injury free)...there is a huge amount of points in them.
Therefore in a dream I say Cam Murray, in reality Creighton or the other big unsigned Rooster ?? would be ideal and I really believe, if Ben Turbo can defend well, is an ideal edge who will create massive problems for opposition defence and has a great combination with Schuster and we just may already have 1 area solved without realising it...
To be fair that first half was a throw back to round 1 rather than what had been played from round 6 on!!
 

mickqld

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To be fair that first half was a throw back to round 1 rather than what had been played from round 6 on!!
Just illustrates what a joke the nrl is. Cannot get any consistent officiating ever. Stop FUKING around with the rules every week and let the game be played how it should be. It's not fuking touch football so stop turning it into it. Rugby league has always been a gladiator sport, brutal, tough, hard and fatiguing. This popcorn millenials bullsht being fed us is just a masquerade for touch football.
 

Mark from Brisbane

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Just illustrates what a joke the nrl is. Cannot get any consistent officiating ever. Stop FUKING around with the rules every week and let the game be played how it should be. It's not fuking touch football so stop turning it into it. Rugby league has always been a gladiator sport, brutal, tough, hard and fatiguing. This popcorn millenials bullsht being fed us is just a masquerade for touch football.
It’s just the BBL now , aimed at the new market.

A few more years of it and I’ll check out of the game completely , as it is I only ever watch Manly games ( but dud watch all the Finals).

Not long ago I was watching most games.
 

Eagle thru 'n' thru

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Just illustrates what a joke the nrl is. Cannot get any consistent officiating ever. Stop FUKING around with the rules every week and let the game be played how it should be. It's not fuking touch football so stop turning it into it. Rugby league has always been a gladiator sport, brutal, tough, hard and fatiguing. This popcorn millenials bullsht being fed us is just a masquerade for touch football.

Back in the day, lunch time at high school. We'd get in trouble for playing tackle footy (then in trouble again by the oldies for ripped shirts and fat lips when we got home), so we changed tackles to a vocal "grab 1, 2, 3". But there was always the odd shoulder charge that had the player "sin binned" for two sets of 6. Glorious days indeed!
 

ricardo

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In two years time our backline will include five centres in Hoppa, Suli, Burbo, Harper and Funa. Walker, Jorge, Garrick & Parker will be history ... so what do we do??? Have a strong but slow backline? Or do we inject some much needed pace...
 

mosto

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For all the differences, the striking similarity between the two sides was their defensive records, 1st and 2nd. Despite the increase in points scored, the ability to not concede them remains the key measure of success. The top three defensive records finished 1, 2, 3 on the ladder, the best attacking record finished 4th. Get your defence right, you get more ball, more attacking opportunities. It's been that way since 1908 regardless of what rules are in play at the time.
 

Snake

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Gould's commentary was heavily biased for 80 minutes and took credit away from the Storm's scramble but there was some truth to Penrith being on top eArly. Their forwards were definitely on top and Melbourne were struggling to get out of their own end...however, Penrith played with no patience. It was their halves forcing the issue that cost them...Melbourne make you work for every point and Panthers rushed and got frustrated and it forced errors.

The mobile pack is probably the way to go.
 
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Waz13

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It’s just the BBL now , aimed at the new market.

A few more years of it and I’ll check out of the game completely , as it is I only ever watch Manly games ( but dud watch all the Finals).

Not long ago I was watching most games.
Mark I was starting to feel this way soon into the intro of 6 agains. Call me old fashioned but give me chess over checkers any day. Said it before you don’t need big score lines for a great game of footy. I watched the 2011 GF ahead of the game Sun night and it was still fast, big hits and entertaining. I hate how nrl keeps introducing and changing rules. It’s dumb and takes away from the traditions of the game.
 

Waz13

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Gould's commentary was heavily biased for 80 minutes and took credit away from the Storm's scramble but there was some truth to Penrith being on top eArly. Their forwards were definitely on top and Melbourne were struggling to get out of their own end...however, Penrith played with no patience. It was their halves forcing the issue that cost them...Melbourne make you work for every point and Panthers rushed and got frustrated and it forced errors.

The mobile pack is probably the way to go.
Agree, Cleary had a shocker in that first half and it cost them points imo. I also agreed with Gould that for a good portion early Penrith did look on top (just not on the scoreboard) and that was due to poor management by Cleary and co.
 

mosto

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Mark I was starting to feel this way soon into the intro of 6 agains. Call me old fashioned but give me chess over checkers any day. Said it before you don’t need big score lines for a great game of footy. I watched the 2011 GF ahead of the game Sun night and it was still fast, big hits and entertaining. I hate how nrl keeps introducing and changing rules. It’s dumb and takes away from the traditions of the game.
And the 4-0 loss to the Roosters in the 2013 semi-final was one of the best games I have ever seen. Plenty of attacking football but neither defence would cave.
 

maxta

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Cleary played ordinary for the first 60 minutes really, but a player does not suddenly go from red hot to dog s**t overnight....more to do with the shut down time, as Storm controlled the tempo and were in his face and adding extra contacts also, to let him know it was going to be a long day at the office, which worked and personally don't mind seeing the playmakers getting bustled a bit, just the Storm sicken me a little is the negative part of it.
The Panthers were not allowed to play like they had in club games where they were basically unstoppable, with the officials allowing far more lattitude witha short 10m, early defensive shooters and time in the tackle, which is fine in the sense I personally like some extra heat and an absorbing contest...but to change the rules on grand final day is BS - keep it consistent.
The way the nRL have made the game so fast and almost a hybrid of tackle and touch footy maybe exciting at times, but takes out a major part of the game I grew up with and loved from the 80's....bigger hits, copybook bootlace tackles and you could have a low scoring game that had you on the end of your seat...also there was more spontanious play rather than the structured set plays that are mostly pre-meditated, rather than playing eyes up footy....this in a sense, teaches our kids to play like robots rather than use their natural abilities which is sad and lacks the unexpected brilliance that lights up a stadium.
 
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Waz13

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And the 4-0 loss to the Roosters in the 2013 semi-final was one of the best games I have ever seen. Plenty of attacking football but neither defence would cave.
Yes mate for sure. I’ve referenced this game in the context of these discussions previously, would have been better if we won but it was a classic. Low scoring close games create a higher level of excitement and anticipation in my opinion. I like the comparison to T20. Boundaries in this form are so frequent imo it creates less excitement when they are hit. “Oh wow another 6........” Try’s in league will Follow the same path no doubt.
 

Snake

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Cleary played ordinary for the first 60 minutes really, but a player does not suddenly go from red hot to dog s**t overnight....more to do with the shut down time, as Storm controlled the tempo and were in his face and adding extra contacts also, to let him know it was going to be a long day at the office, which worked and personally don't mind seeing the playmakers getting bustled a bit, just the Storm sicken me a little is the negative part of it.
The Panthers were not allowed to play like they had in club games where they were basically unstoppable, with the officials allowing far more lattitude witha short 10m, early defensive shooters and time in the tackle, which is fine in the sense I personally like some extra heat and an absorbing contest...but to change the rules on grand final day is BS - keep it consistent.
The way the nRL have made the game so fast and almost a hybrid of tackle and touch footy maybe exciting at times, but takes out a major part of the game I grew up with and loved from the 80's....bigger hits, copybook bootlace tackles and you could have a low scoring game that had you on the end of your seat...also there was more spontanious play rather than the structured set plays that are mostly pre-meditated, rather than playing eyes up footy....this in a sense, teaches our kids to play like robots rather than use their natural abilities which is sad and lacks the unexpected brilliance that lights up a stadium.
Mmm not sure I agree. Clearly had plenty of time...it was Melbourne's scramble on the edges that frustrated him into long looping passed. Kikau was also guilty of trying to force the issue.

Part of his role is to out think the opposition and come up with something to combat the Storm's approach. He showed his inexperience...as did many of his teammates. I think he is culpable for aspects of the result. Doesn't mean he isn't or won't be a decent 7 but he played a poor game that was part of his own doing.
 
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