Penalty kicks for the line. A recurring nightmare.

[Stuey Davis’s Socks]

Thank God Jye wasn't kicking with a union ball

 

[Matabele]

That is irrelevant and if what you say above is true, then my point stands that it is apples and oranges.

As a standard test you have to have controls. The controls are

- Weight of kick
- Style of kick
- position of ball

Variable that are hard to account for are
- Wind


Pretty much thats it.

If you start changing the style of kick then the experiment becomes to variable and too innaccurate. Unless you used all different types of kicks for all balls and averaged the details.

In other words you have just proved that on some things science is a complete ass.

 

[Dan]

Not at all.

You can account for it, but we dont have the instruments able to do this, it is also inconsequencial how the ball is kicked as long as it is the same for every ball. This will show us, how far a ball will travel given certain weights which is the question in place here, not given the style it is kicked in.

I really hope you didnt mean your above statement because it shows a major flaw in your thinking process

 

[The Gronk]

Actually I think the spiral is quite relevant. If you think about kicking a torp with a league ball, you generally have to kick 'across' the ball a bit to get it to torp. With the union ball it is bigger and you can kick 'through' it a lot more. So a lot more of the energy from your kick goes straight through the union ball whereas with a league ball it goes across it.

So it might be part of the reason a union ball goes further.

And as far as mythbusters goes, well they actually did an experiment to see if the gas you filled the ball up with changed how far it went. Even they couldn't build a rig that gave a reproducible kick. They found getting an NFL kicker in actually worked better.

 

[Matabele]

Dan has showed himself to be a complete ass on this one.

A steel rod will never replicate the various kicks required in game conditions, nor can a steel rod have the mental capacity to account for changes and scenarios in a game.

 

[Fro]

I dunno, I reckon a steel rod might be quite a good substitute for the mental abilities of some of our players.

 

[Dan]

Actually I think the spiral is quite relevant. If you think about kicking a torp with a league ball, you generally have to kick 'across' the ball a bit to get it to torp. With the union ball it is bigger and you can kick 'through' it a lot more. So a lot more of the energy from your kick goes straight through the union ball whereas with a league ball it goes across it.

So it might be part of the reason a union ball goes further.

And as far as mythbusters goes, well they actually did an experiment to see if the gas you filled the ball up with changed how far it went. Even they couldn't build a rig that gave a reproducible kick. They found getting an NFL kicker in actually worked better.

Relevant only if you are booting it 50+ metres, In a control environment there is no way that you would do that. using 10 metres and a weighted kick is all that is needed for a controlled and fairly accurate results.

If you wanted to talk about spiraling as a technique you could test that, but it would add little to the experiment and the results you are trying to get, in particular when considering few players can constantly and accurately torp a ball.

This is the reason controls are required and introduced.

If you choose different methods of kicking the ball simply because of the way some ppl kick it you remove any accurate data.

 

[Dan]

Dan has showed himself to be a complete ass on this one.

A steel rod will never replicate the various kicks required in game conditions, nor can a steel rod have the mental capacity to account for changes and scenarios in a game.

Kind of sums it up really, you dont een understand a thing that was said do you?

I was having a think the other day and wanted to check whether you were back on the sauce?

 

[The Gronk]

Anyone care to pay us bods at CSIRO to investigate for a few months and work it all out?

 

[Dan]

Hey i would help out,

but on Pure data lel all you are looking for is which will go further, style of kicking would be an add on to the main data.

 

[The Gronk]

You could probably just work it out with a pen and paper with a few equations-its all about transfer of momentum.

But I am a chemist not a physicist though so dont ask me to

 

[Matabele]

[quote author=Matabele]
Dan has showed himself to be a complete ass on this one.

A steel rod will never replicate the various kicks required in game conditions, nor can a steel rod have the mental capacity to account for changes and scenarios in a game.

Kind of sums it up really, you dont een understand a thing that was said do you?

I was having a think the other day and wanted to check whether you were back on the sauce?
[/quote]

sober as, thanks for asking though.

But even a sad drunk knows a steel rod won't let you gauge the difference between a Union and League ball in game situations. :naughty:

 

[Dan]

[quote author=Dan]
[quote author=Matabele]
Dan has showed himself to be a complete ass on this one.

A steel rod will never replicate the various kicks required in game conditions, nor can a steel rod have the mental capacity to account for changes and scenarios in a game.

Kind of sums it up really, you dont een understand a thing that was said do you?

I was having a think the other day and wanted to check whether you were back on the sauce?
[/quote]

sober as, thanks for asking though.

But even a sad drunk knows a steel rod won't let you gauge the difference between a Union and League ball in game situations. :naughty:

[/quote]

Game situation is an addon variable and irrelevant, the cold hard facts of which ball travels furthest under the same conditions will give you the data you need for all situations.

 

[Matabele]

What if the different balls react better (or worse) to varying conditions?

Eg a League ball travelks further than a Union ball if hit in certain ways and vice versa.

Then there is the context of a game - do we REALLY need metres or do we want to make sure we find touch? How much risk do we take?

The thing we want to know here is why is Orford's metreage from kicks consistently poor - especially when you look at some of the line kickers from the RWC?

Your synopsis appears to be entirely that Union balls travel further than League. But how does that explain Orford's lack of metreage as opposed to other League kickers?

I think DSM5 makes a good first up point - his short legs limit the leverage he can apply to the ball.

The thing we fans want to know is, can this congenital issue be addressed and his metreage improved, or should we find an alternate line kicker?

I have proposed Brett Stewart.

BTW Dan. I WUV YOU!!!!!!!

 

[Chip and Chase]

Game situation is an addon variable and irrelevant, the cold hard facts of which ball travels furthest under the same conditions will give you the data you need for all situations.

Yes your experiment will conclusively prove which style of ball will travel the furtherest past approximately 10m when struck with a weighted steel rod. Your assertion that this will give you the data you need for all situations is flawed.

It's like saying we'll test the brakes on my car at 20km/hr and extrapolate that to judge how they perform at 160km/hr.

 

[DSM5]

Excellent thread guys, if most a little beyond me in detail. I would have thought a guy with longer legs, therefore with a bigger swing = greater force at the point of impact, meant something. If I'm right then King or some other long legged horse would be the preferred kicker with a little learning, rather than the vertically challenged Ox.. Hopefully someone in the coaching area will read the thread and give it some thought.

 

[Dan]

Excellent thread guys, if most a little beyond me in detail. I would have thought a guy with longer legs, therefore with a bigger swing = greater force at the point of impact, meant something. If I'm right then King or some other long legged horse would be the preferred kicker with a little learning, rather than the vertically challenged Ox.. Hopefully someone in the coaching area will read the thread and give it some thought.

Leg length means nothing really. Because if that is the case you have to bring in muscle mass etc. I know short guys in soccer that can kick a ball harder and further than me.

Pure fact and data would be which ball goes further given the same weight and same style, over same test distance.

That would allow you to say that
It is bad technique
it has to do with the ball

and lots of other inferences.

If a union ball travels further then that is a factor no matter the length, style of kick or length of leg.

 

[DSM5]

What's the solution then Dan, do we stay with Ox and his paltry ten metres or so, or do we do seek out another kicker? Do you consider Ox has it in his legs to go the distance?

 

[Canteen Worker]

You could probably just work it out with a pen and paper with a few equations-its all about transfer of momentum.

But I am a chemist not a physicist though so dont ask me to

Mata is an accountant and Dan is a computer programmer so they would know for sure!!! :lol: :lol:

 

[Dan]

[quote author=The Gronk]
You could probably just work it out with a pen and paper with a few equations-its all about transfer of momentum.

But I am a chemist not a physicist though so dont ask me to

Mata is an accountant and Dan is a computer programmer so they would know for sure!!! :lol: :lol:
[/quote]


Scientific method has nothing to do with profession.....