Line Speed is 60% of the game

Member
You need line speed. Penrith sprint off their line for 80 mins. I went to Penrith Park in rd1 and expected us to win. No Cleary. Turbo fit and us coming off a top 4 finish. I walked away knowing that we were miles off the pace. They kicked to Saab in the corner and dominated him. Turbo second tackle hit up from a slow ruck. They sprinted up and hammered him. Then our weak pack got bashed and we played the whole game off the back foot. I knew we were done there and then. Went to SCG rd2 hoping for a bounce back and the chooks thumped us in the same manner. Was 20 something nil at halftime. Thought we’d miss the 8 after that and we did.

Experts say Penrith can’t win next year without Koroisau and Kikau. I disagree. Their line speed, fitness levels, athleticism and attitude will keep them ahead of every other team, other than on paper a fully fit Roosters. The chooks play so brutally that their challenge next year is to win enough games in an easier fashion so they can rip and tear in the finals.

We are so far away. We need a metre eating back 5 where the centers do some work and a more athletic pack that hunts together. Koula needs to put himself in the game. He waits for the game to come to him. A player of his class shouldn’t take over 10 or so games to score his first ever first grade try. He’s gotta go to the contest.

Josh Aloiai is our best prop, but he would be a 20 min impact player off the bench at Penrith, Parra, Souths, Cowboys, Canberra, Cronulla & Roosters. That’s most of the 8. He’s not fit enough.

I’m really worried about next year. DCE, Schuster & Jake all like to pass the ball sideways and without a significant change to our power game and with no running threat from dummy half, there is the potential for us to really struggle to score points against the good teams. Schuster needs to start thinking ‘run first’ in the off season. He has the passing game, but will get picked off quite easily if he doesn’t put some doubt in the opposition.

Turbo was not overly effective behind a beaten pack this year. He won’t do it by himself. We need to get him into the game.
 
Reserve Grader
All really good points.

Like you mention one of the defining times of the season was in that first game. We were just dominated and Kikau in particular just bullied our backline from kick returns. Saab and Harper were just monstered. While our forwards just looked on and let it happen.
 
“ Triggered Boomer”
Premium Member
All really good points.

Like you mention one of the defining times of the season was in that first game. We were just dominated and Kikau in particular just bullied our backline from kick returns. Saab and Harper were just monstered. While our forwards just looked on and let it happen.
And based on current ( might know more #nextweek ) squad absolutely NOTHING will change in 2023.

Our forwards are feather dusters in comparison, Jake aside.

If the squad is about where it’s at already we will be dominated again by the top 4 clubs , struggle against the next 4, be competitive against the next 4 , and probably beat most of the bottom 4.

14th / 15th at best, 16th possible

I see where it looks like Klemmer might be going to the Tigers , they are building again , we are going backwards.

You cannot win big games without a strong forward pack.
 
Tragic
Premium Member
We are dormant in the market and otherwise going backwards. Cannot understand how our cap can be so poorly managed that we loose big name players on good coin and can't go market. Somebody has rocks in their head.
 
Bencher
Premium Member
Think that the biggest concern or issue is that Manly with their current forward mix just can not sustain that required level of line speed and endurance for a full eighty . Doesn 't matter how good Manly 's attack [ well out of the ruck area ] is capable of being at times and points scoring ability ,. effective defence wins most matches and sufficient and sustained line speed a big part of that .
 
Feast yer eyes ..
You need line speed. Penrith sprint off their line for 80 mins. I went to Penrith Park in rd1 and expected us to win. No Cleary. Turbo fit and us coming off a top 4 finish. I walked away knowing that we were miles off the pace. They kicked to Saab in the corner and dominated him. Turbo second tackle hit up from a slow ruck. They sprinted up and hammered him. Then our weak pack got bashed and we played the whole game off the back foot. I knew we were done there and then. Went to SCG rd2 hoping for a bounce back and the chooks thumped us in the same manner. Was 20 something nil at halftime. Thought we’d miss the 8 after that and we did.

Experts say Penrith can’t win next year without Koroisau and Kikau. I disagree. Their line speed, fitness levels, athleticism and attitude will keep them ahead of every other team, other than on paper a fully fit Roosters. The chooks play so brutally that their challenge next year is to win enough games in an easier fashion so they can rip and tear in the finals.

We are so far away. We need a metre eating back 5 where the centers do some work and a more athletic pack that hunts together. Koula needs to put himself in the game. He waits for the game to come to him. A player of his class shouldn’t take over 10 or so games to score his first ever first grade try. He’s gotta go to the contest.

Josh Aloiai is our best prop, but he would be a 20 min impact player off the bench at Penrith, Parra, Souths, Cowboys, Canberra, Cronulla & Roosters. That’s most of the 8. He’s not fit enough.

I’m really worried about next year. DCE, Schuster & Jake all like to pass the ball sideways and without a significant change to our power game and with no running threat from dummy half, there is the potential for us to really struggle to score points against the good teams. Schuster needs to start thinking ‘run first’ in the off season. He has the passing game, but will get picked off quite easily if he doesn’t put some doubt in the opposition.

Turbo was not overly effective behind a beaten pack this year. He won’t do it by himself. We need to get him into the game.

All good points, and well stated ...

We have a great coach that has had this side for 4 years ... and I am certain he is all over the issues you have raised .... and is working to correct them.
 
First Grader
We are dormant in the market and otherwise going backwards. Cannot understand how our cap can be so poorly managed that we lose big name players on good coin and can't go market. Somebody has rocks in their head.
One issue is that the club is waiting, like every other club, to find out what is going on with the salary cap next year.
 
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Bencher
Its a momentum based game. Being able to control/ absorb and create momentum through a number of avenues
lines speed, ruck speed , kicking and game management

The NRL game isnt just footy .

we dont have enough discipline

the riff are copping it off field but they are on field pros . manly seem to have decided to play a different style of footy altogether. Our big forwards go better with a good kicking game and 50/50 ball. If we could even get in that battle first would be a step in the right direction IMO .
 
First Grader
Line speed is very effective against Manly, as the team has ineffective ability to create momentum from the deep with Saab and Tom tall giraffes who opposition defenders can drive backwards in numbers and pin us deep.
Penrith have explosive players like To'o and Edwards who even against the rushing defence can spit out of dummy half - bend the line and create momentum.
This then is a domino effect with the roll on and Cleary/Lui kicking on the front foot with time and space.
As for defending, Manly again lack line speed, because on early tackles there is soft contact and the opposition has comprimised the line, which in turn makes it very hard to shoot up when the opposition is playing the ball and you are still going backwards to get onside.
Manly was pretty much off the pace in every footy department in 2022 and need to improve in energy and tempo across the board.
I think it comes down to improved Attitude, energy and fitness or same fate in 2023.
 
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The Incomparable Immortal Bob Fulton
The moral of the New game story

Speed rules and Speed Kills in more ways than one

Slow is a liability on all accounts

There is absolutely fck all advantage in being slower than your opposition

Never forget
WE are not snails . WE are high flying Sea eagles
See the source image
 
Member
I think for Des to get back in favour with the powers that be, he needs to acknowledge that the style we are playing is not working. If he shows he can adapt and get us playing a more uptempo / less cumbersome style, that will get him resigned.

I think he sort of gets it, with plenty of ball movement out of our own half. But then I am not 100% certain. He used to like moving the ball around teams in our dominant era, using Lyon & Matai in particular to steal 15m down each flank by playing around and moving the opposition pack.

Now we seem to be playing around our front row as they aren’t any good. That TikTok video with Marty throwing his hands in the air is a good example. Let’s face it, Keppie ain’t bruising the line, Paseka lumbers into it & Sipley is gassed after 10 mins.

We tended to play away from our middles throughout ‘22, with Walker coming on and playing with width.

We need to change that and burst with energy through the middle. I am if the belief that you have to earn the right to go wide.
 
The Incomparable Immortal Bob Fulton
I think for Des to get back in favour with the powers that be, he needs to acknowledge that the style we are playing is not working. If he shows he can adapt and get us playing a more uptempo / less cumbersome style, that will get him resigned.

I think he sort of gets it, with plenty of ball movement out of our own half. But then I am not 100% certain. He used to like moving the ball around teams in our dominant era, using Lyon & Matai in particular to steal 15m down each flank by playing around and moving the opposition pack.

Now we seem to be playing around our front row as they aren’t any good. That TikTok video with Marty throwing his hands in the air is a good example. Let’s face it, Keppie ain’t bruising the line, Paseka lumbers into it & Sipley is gassed after 10 mins.

We tended to play away from our middles throughout ‘22, with Walker coming on and playing with width.

We need to change that and burst with energy through the middle. I am if the belief that you have to earn the right to go wide.
Persisting with strategies that are not affective

Is like flogging a dead horse
 
Member
We have to give Fainu, Fifita, Tuitavake & Fulton plenty of football next season. They will all be in the top 30. If they don’t make the 17, they must be playing regular NSW Cup with a view of getting them in as soon as they are ready. Paseka, Sipley & Keppie need to be challenged. How Paseka isn’t our dominant no.1 prop is absolutely beyond me. He has not kicked on. Look at the attitudes of all the top props. His will to win and sacrifice his body just isn’t there.
 
Reserve Grader
Spot on with this. Could see from that very first game you mention against Penrith that we were not going to be contenders this year.
Didn't expect to go SO bad but i did see it immediately, that we were bullied by a much faster, stronger and hungrier team.
Our guys don't seem to play for each other or manly the region.
Too many journeymen and positional changes each week
 
Member
Spot on with this. Could see from that very first game you mention against Penrith that we were not going to be contenders this year.
Didn't expect to go SO bad but i did see it immediately, that we were bullied by a much faster, stronger and hungrier team.
Our guys don't seem to play for each other or manly the region.
Too many journeymen and positional changes each week
That’s a great point. We have to work out who we are playing for. What we stand for.

We are carrying too many blokes that are happy that they’ve made first grade. There’s a difference between making it and wanting to win once you’re there.

Schuster for mine is the absolute key moving forward. Not just on game day, but how he trains and how he carries himself off the pitch. He can be a leader for all the young Polynesian and pathways boys. We need some leadership and discipline from someone other than Jake, Tom & Daly.
 
Reserve Grader
You need line speed. Penrith sprint off their line for 80 mins. I went to Penrith Park in rd1 and expected us to win. No Cleary. Turbo fit and us coming off a top 4 finish. I walked away knowing that we were miles off the pace. They kicked to Saab in the corner and dominated him. Turbo second tackle hit up from a slow ruck. They sprinted up and hammered him. Then our weak pack got bashed and we played the whole game off the back foot. I knew we were done there and then. Went to SCG rd2 hoping for a bounce back and the chooks thumped us in the same manner. Was 20 something nil at halftime. Thought we’d miss the 8 after that and we did.

Experts say Penrith can’t win next year without Koroisau and Kikau. I disagree. Their line speed, fitness levels, athleticism and attitude will keep them ahead of every other team, other than on paper a fully fit Roosters. The chooks play so brutally that their challenge next year is to win enough games in an easier fashion so they can rip and tear in the finals.

We are so far away. We need a metre eating back 5 where the centers do some work and a more athletic pack that hunts together. Koula needs to put himself in the game. He waits for the game to come to him. A player of his class shouldn’t take over 10 or so games to score his first ever first grade try. He’s gotta go to the contest.

Josh Aloiai is our best prop, but he would be a 20 min impact player off the bench at Penrith, Parra, Souths, Cowboys, Canberra, Cronulla & Roosters. That’s most of the 8. He’s not fit enough.

I’m really worried about next year. DCE, Schuster & Jake all like to pass the ball sideways and without a significant change to our power game and with no running threat from dummy half, there is the potential for us to really struggle to score points against the good teams. Schuster needs to start thinking ‘run first’ in the off season. He has the passing game, but will get picked off quite easily if he doesn’t put some doubt in the opposition.

Turbo was not overly effective behind a beaten pack this year. He won’t do it by himself. We need to get him into the game.
Just on a side note, would it be worthwhile switching guac to Schuster's side of the field?
Dce only ever feeds him the ball when flat footed! He looked much more effective when Foz was on the same side
 
Member
Just on a side note, would it be worthwhile switching guac to Schuster's side of the field?
Dce only ever feeds him the ball when flat footed! He looked much more effective when Foz was on the same side
Burbo had a great combo with Schu in the juniors. Would love to see Burbo put his head down and add some size to his frame. He’s not gonna make it with his current shape. Tuilagi & Guac will start. Guac needs to get deeper and run onto the ball. He needs to do this consistently and also show some selflessness by attract defenders running just as hard as a decoy so Koula can get some early ball in space.
 
Bencher
Premium Member
One of the great grey areas of the game.

Where does line speed end and offside begin ?

From what I understand, the defence can't move until the ball is played with the foot. I might be wrong. If I'm right, you might be able to argue that they can never go because which player actually plays it properly since Jorge left ? @:D

All we want is a fair contest and if the defence is leaving early, the attacking side can't get much happening and will get dominated in almost every instance.
 
The Incomparable Immortal Bob Fulton
Burbo had a great combo with Schu in the juniors. Would love to see Burbo put his head down and add some size to his frame. He’s not gonna make it with his current shape.
We would all like to have all the qualities to make it as prominent NRL player

But I do not see Burbo being a dominant player

Personally I would spend the cap money on a more promising player

The fact is if we are to get better as a team we need better players

Dominant clubs like the ruthless Roosters are always reviewing and updating the quality of their players

There is no sentiment in professional sport . It is all about building a winning culture

And a winning culture is the happiest culture on and off the field

Every body loves a winner

The excitement of a team winning to fans is intoxicating and they keep coming back for more

Manly Crouds fill the stadium to see another Manly win
See the source image
 

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