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Let's be realistic 2020

Eagle of London

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2016
Messages
1,231
lots of discontent after that non performance against Penrith. I too feel gutted just like many of you.

This would be normally where I 100% stick up for Des with the same lines about troops, injury and young players.

This time I'm finding it difficult as he's definitely made some poor calls imho but in the sprit of fair judgement I will give it a go.

Has his time passed? Perhaps, but do great coaches time ever really pass? They get stale at a club sure but that doesn't mean its over. Its about the players available and their ability to buy into a system.

Hasler took over in 2004 a side that was pretty light. It had the stewart brothers, menzies, monna and a few other decent players. It finished 14th with some pretty horrendous scorelines.

2005 again he added a few quality players. BK made a huge attitude difference. Kite was added, watmaugh started to come thru and most importantly the dead wood was moved out.

Fast forward to 2019 and he returns to an underperformed side with some genuine superstars but again a lot of dead wood. Does an amazing job of getting this rag tag bunch up for a fight and if a few things had have gone our way we could have been in the big dance. I doubt we would have won but it was a big effort.

2020 has been a mixed bag. Some good others not so. Takeaway is the dead wood has to be cleaned out this year.

If we know anything about Hasler its his loyalty to his players. Its one of his biggest pluses but also a huge flaw.

We are surely now at the point that players like parker, Jorge, Elliott, and especially croker are let go.

Thing is Des is safe. With this team we will be there or there abouts come finals. Not too 4 now but have a chance. His downside is that he continues the play safe as if getting into the finals is the goal and many it is. Didn't he have some clause about making the top 8 in his contract?

And after all the words above (sorry) we can all look at the broncos where changes are made willy nilly. Do we want that? I sure don't. I would like a freshen up with Schuster and hoppa but do you drop them into an underperformed side or bring them in when they are ready?
 

Dion Johnson

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2019
Messages
338
lots of discontent after that non performance against Penrith. I too feel gutted just like many of you.

This would be normally where I 100% stick up for Des with the same lines about troops, injury and young players.

This time I'm finding it difficult as he's definitely made some poor calls imho but in the sprit of fair judgement I will give it a go.

Has his time passed? Perhaps, but do great coaches time ever really pass? They get stale at a club sure but that doesn't mean its over. Its about the players available and their ability to buy into a system.

Hasler took over in 2004 a side that was pretty light. It had the stewart brothers, menzies, monna and a few other decent players. It finished 14th with some pretty horrendous scorelines.

2005 again he added a few quality players. BK made a huge attitude difference. Kite was added, watmaugh started to come thru and most importantly the dead wood was moved out.

Fast forward to 2019 and he returns to an underperformed side with some genuine superstars but again a lot of dead wood. Does an amazing job of getting this rag tag bunch up for a fight and if a few things had have gone our way we could have been in the big dance. I doubt we would have won but it was a big effort.

2020 has been a mixed bag. Some good others not so. Takeaway is the dead wood has to be cleaned out this year.

If we know anything about Hasler its his loyalty to his players. Its one of his biggest pluses but also a huge flaw.

We are surely now at the point that players like parker, Jorge, Elliott, and especially croker are let go.

Thing is Des is safe. With this team we will be there or there abouts come finals. Not too 4 now but have a chance. His downside is that he continues the play safe as if getting into the finals is the goal and many it is. Didn't he have some clause about making the top 8 in his contract?

And after all the words above (sorry) we can all look at the broncos where changes are made willy nilly. Do we want that? I sure don't. I would like a freshen up with Schuster and hoppa but do you drop them into an underperformed side or bring them in when they are ready?
The dead wood you mention, Des has signed / October extended all but two of our current 30 to my knowledge.

1. DCE
2. Albert H

Des can’t blame others completely for the squad, I put it down to a disconnection with the vision of Des and the recruitment philosophy, got to ween players in and Des has not shown any faith with it, Guacamole, Funa and Cust dropped for fringe players.

On the Broncos yes they are hit and miss with some quality players, they will benefit for the experience, look at the panthers and the Storm they have stocked to their recruitment philosophies and vision.

Des is great, needs to be open to change and back the philosophy, Des lacks the vision and creativity of Bellamy.

The coaching style of grinding out games is tough on the players week in week out, therefore dropping and refreshing a few tired under performers will not hurt.

Inject the youth and stick for a few games.
 

ManlyArmy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2013
Messages
1,421
lots of discontent after that non performance against Penrith. I too feel gutted just like many of you.

This would be normally where I 100% stick up for Des with the same lines about troops, injury and young players.

This time I'm finding it difficult as he's definitely made some poor calls imho but in the sprit of fair judgement I will give it a go.

Has his time passed? Perhaps, but do great coaches time ever really pass? They get stale at a club sure but that doesn't mean its over. Its about the players available and their ability to buy into a system.

Hasler took over in 2004 a side that was pretty light. It had the stewart brothers, menzies, monna and a few other decent players. It finished 14th with some pretty horrendous scorelines.

2005 again he added a few quality players. BK made a huge attitude difference. Kite was added, watmaugh started to come thru and most importantly the dead wood was moved out.

Fast forward to 2019 and he returns to an underperformed side with some genuine superstars but again a lot of dead wood. Does an amazing job of getting this rag tag bunch up for a fight and if a few things had have gone our way we could have been in the big dance. I doubt we would have won but it was a big effort.

2020 has been a mixed bag. Some good others not so. Takeaway is the dead wood has to be cleaned out this year.

If we know anything about Hasler its his loyalty to his players. Its one of his biggest pluses but also a huge flaw.

We are surely now at the point that players like parker, Jorge, Elliott, and especially croker are let go.

Thing is Des is safe. With this team we will be there or there abouts come finals. Not too 4 now but have a chance. His downside is that he continues the play safe as if getting into the finals is the goal and many it is. Didn't he have some clause about making the top 8 in his contract?

And after all the words above (sorry) we can all look at the broncos where changes are made willy nilly. Do we want that? I sure don't. I would like a freshen up with Schuster and hoppa but do you drop them into an underperformed side or bring them in when they are ready?
Three keys for season 2021:

1. If Fainu is cleared, we will look a hell of a lot better in the middle
2. Tommy has to play at least 80% of the regular season
3. Settle on a halves partner for DCE and god damn stick with it.

The rest will fall into place including who fits in on that left edge around the set number 6.
 

Pepi

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2005
Messages
1,173
Let’s not forget that Des has gone through tough periods in his coaching before and come through the other side. I.e.
2005 62-6 flogging from the Sharks, complete failure of second half of the year after a great start.
2006 out in straight sets in the finals with a 28-0 flogging
2009 losing first 4 games straight. Absolutely flogged in the finals by storm
2010 flogged again in finals after finishing 8th.
I remember people saying our roster was **** in 2010 and we won the next year.
Fainu and Turbo are our two best attacking players, it’s little wonder we’ve gone ****house this year. Yes Des has made some mistakes in his selections but let’s keep things in perspective
 

Harry Smith

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2016
Messages
3,884
I think the bottom line is that I dislike a lot of our roster. It has been very poorly assembled with a bunch of inconsistent individuals that - to put it bluntly - were rejects of other clubs. Our forward pack is awesome, but lacks variety. Our backline is, at face value, filled from 2-6 with expendable players (Cust seems to be breaking away from that status). Des has done a sensational job building some professionalism and resilience into this side (which had been among the most mentally weak and inconsistent i'd ever seen during 2018).

We, miraculously have been able to build a side that can, on their day, beat even the best. That is an awesome achievement. If i'm being realistic about 2020, I would say that we can scrape into the top 8, then challenge as well as anyone. Provided, as much as I hate confessing it, trbo returns. Better off imo with Walker out, and believe Taufua should be dropped for Funa before seasons end if we are to make it. While we are extremely tough and frequently punch above our weight, we are equally as fragile and rely almost totally on attitude without individualistic players like DCE and Trbo performing well. We are just very unsustainable with this squad.

I want to see our recruitment target players of this mould for 2021; Hopefully Fainu returns as well.
  • Marata Niukore (criminally underrated 2RF)
  • Alex Johnston
  • Sam Verrills
  • Tom Starling
  • JAC
  • Katoni Staggs
  • Brent Naden
  • Matt Burton
  • Tanah Boyd
  • Dale Finucane (but backline priority)
 

sean john

Manly Til I Die
Joined
May 25, 2015
Messages
2,604
The dead wood you mention, Des has signed / October extended all but two of our current 30 to my knowledge.

1. DCE
2. Albert H

Des can’t blame others completely for the squad, I put it down to a disconnection with the vision of Des and the recruitment philosophy, got to ween players in and Des has not shown any faith with it, Guacamole, Funa and Cust dropped for fringe players.

On the Broncos yes they are hit and miss with some quality players, they will benefit for the experience, look at the panthers and the Storm they have stocked to their recruitment philosophies and vision.

Des is great, needs to be open to change and back the philosophy, Des lacks the vision and creativity of Bellamy.

The coaching style of grinding out games is tough on the players week in week out, therefore dropping and refreshing a few tired under performers will not hurt.

Inject the youth and stick for a few games.
Morgan Boyle
Zac Saddler
Lachlan Croker
Reuben Garrick
Morgan Harper
Sam Smith
Danny Levi
Martin Taupau
Turbo bros
Dylan Walker
Cade Cust
 

SeaEaglez

Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2020
Messages
32
I think the bottom line is that I dislike a lot of our roster. It has been very poorly assembled with a bunch of inconsistent individuals that - to put it bluntly - were rejects of other clubs. Our forward pack is awesome, but lacks variety. Our backline is, at face value, filled from 2-6 with expendable players (Cust seems to be breaking away from that status). Des has done a sensational job building some professionalism and resilience into this side (which had been among the most mentally weak and inconsistent i'd ever seen during 2018).

We, miraculously have been able to build a side that can, on their day, beat even the best. That is an awesome achievement. If i'm being realistic about 2020, I would say that we can scrape into the top 8, then challenge as well as anyone. Provided, as much as I hate confessing it, trbo returns. Better off imo with Walker out, and believe Taufua should be dropped for Funa before seasons end if we are to make it. While we are extremely tough and frequently punch above our weight, we are equally as fragile and rely almost totally on attitude without individualistic players like DCE and Trbo performing well. We are just very unsustainable with this squad.

I want to see our recruitment target players of this mould for 2021; Hopefully Fainu returns as well.
  • Marata Niukore (criminally underrated 2RF)
  • Alex Johnston
  • Sam Verrills
  • Tom Starling
  • JAC
  • Katoni Staggs
  • Brent Naden
  • Matt Burton
  • Tanah Boyd
  • Dale Finucane (but backline priority)
Now that Ladies & Gentlemen, is a very good post
 

ManlyArmy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2013
Messages
1,421
I think the bottom line is that I dislike a lot of our roster. It has been very poorly assembled with a bunch of inconsistent individuals that - to put it bluntly - were rejects of other clubs. Our forward pack is awesome, but lacks variety. Our backline is, at face value, filled from 2-6 with expendable players (Cust seems to be breaking away from that status). Des has done a sensational job building some professionalism and resilience into this side (which had been among the most mentally weak and inconsistent i'd ever seen during 2018).

We, miraculously have been able to build a side that can, on their day, beat even the best. That is an awesome achievement. If i'm being realistic about 2020, I would say that we can scrape into the top 8, then challenge as well as anyone. Provided, as much as I hate confessing it, trbo returns. Better off imo with Walker out, and believe Taufua should be dropped for Funa before seasons end if we are to make it. While we are extremely tough and frequently punch above our weight, we are equally as fragile and rely almost totally on attitude without individualistic players like DCE and Trbo performing well. We are just very unsustainable with this squad.

I want to see our recruitment target players of this mould for 2021; Hopefully Fainu returns as well.
  • Marata Niukore (criminally underrated 2RF)
  • Alex Johnston
  • Sam Verrills
  • Tom Starling
  • JAC
  • Katoni Staggs
  • Brent Naden
  • Matt Burton
  • Tanah Boyd
  • Dale Finucane (but backline priority)
Verrills and Boyd definitely won't sign if Fainu is cleared. They will want a starting spot, same with Burton if Cust seals the number 6 spot with Schuster in there as well off the bench.
 

Kevinward777

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2012
Messages
6,800
I think the bottom line is that I dislike a lot of our roster. It has been very poorly assembled with a bunch of inconsistent individuals that - to put it bluntly - were rejects of other clubs. Our forward pack is awesome, but lacks variety. Our backline is, at face value, filled from 2-6 with expendable players (Cust seems to be breaking away from that status). Des has done a sensational job building some professionalism and resilience into this side (which had been among the most mentally weak and inconsistent i'd ever seen during 2018).

We, miraculously have been able to build a side that can, on their day, beat even the best. That is an awesome achievement. If i'm being realistic about 2020, I would say that we can scrape into the top 8, then challenge as well as anyone. Provided, as much as I hate confessing it, trbo returns. Better off imo with Walker out, and believe Taufua should be dropped for Funa before seasons end if we are to make it. While we are extremely tough and frequently punch above our weight, we are equally as fragile and rely almost totally on attitude without individualistic players like DCE and Trbo performing well. We are just very unsustainable with this squad.

I want to see our recruitment target players of this mould for 2021; Hopefully Fainu returns as well.
  • Marata Niukore (criminally underrated 2RF)
  • Alex Johnston
  • Sam Verrills
  • Tom Starling
  • JAC
  • Katoni Staggs
  • Brent Naden
  • Matt Burton
  • Tanah Boyd
  • Dale Finucane (but backline priority)
Quite possibly the most balanced and accurate summarisation of our present situation that I have had the pleasure of reading on here. Take a bow sir!
 

BOZO

The Incomparable Immortal Bob Fulton
2019 Tipping Competitor
Joined
Jul 26, 2010
Messages
16,881
Lets be realistic 2020
Attitude is everything and The sky is the limit !!!
 

SeaEagleRock8

Sea Eagle Lach
Staff member
Premium Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2009
Messages
18,830
Seems like a good thread in which to make this point!
All our calls for Des to get with the times, and to select Schuster, Hoppa, Funa, Haumole, Sipley, etc etc are based on us watching the selected team come up short (which they have several times this year) and on our assessment of the potential of those we want promoted.

Yes Des is loyal to his first choice guys, that is not a negative, and yes he actually cares about the welfare of the players in his squad, that too is not a negative.

But many seem to forget that Des and his trusted advisors are watching these blokes train day in and day out. And I don't think training is merely running around the oval or lifting weights. If someone was standing out with superior performance or attitude they will get their chance. Anyway, as I've said in other threads, I'm sure those young guys are fully in Des's sights and he is constantly thinking about the best time to introduce them. I'm thinking won't be long now. As Sam Cooke said, a change is gonna come :)
 

BOZO

The Incomparable Immortal Bob Fulton
2019 Tipping Competitor
Joined
Jul 26, 2010
Messages
16,881
Seems like a good thread in which to make this point!
All our calls for Des to get with the times, and to select Schuster, Hoppa, Funa, Haumole, Sipley, etc etc are based on us watching the selected team come up short (which they have several times this year) and on our assessment of the potential of those we want promoted.

Yes Des is loyal to his first choice guys, that is not a negative, and yes he actually cares about the welfare of the players in his squad, that too is not a negative.

But many seem to forget that Des and his trusted advisors are watching these blokes train day in and day out. And I don't think training is merely running around the oval or lifting weights. If someone was standing out with superior performance or attitude they will get their chance. Anyway, as I've said in other threads, I'm sure those young guys are fully in Des's sights and he is constantly thinking about the best time to introduce them. I'm thinking won't be long now. As Sam Cooke said, a change is gonna come :)
 

Eagle of London

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2016
Messages
1,231
A lot of the dead wood will be let go over the next 2 years im sure. lets just hope the special few in the NRL haven't stolen our young saplings by then.
 

BOZO

The Incomparable Immortal Bob Fulton
2019 Tipping Competitor
Joined
Jul 26, 2010
Messages
16,881
I hope all our players can play with a lot more HATE in them
HATE of losing against the opposition
635c8de01f610d6572e675f71e1f1de7ab47e0834bcd4b3398b9105bffacb00d.gif
 

The Who

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2010
Messages
11,828
But many seem to forget that Des and his trusted advisors are watching these blokes train day in and day out. And I don't think training is merely running around the oval or lifting weights. If someone was standing out with superior performance or attitude they will get their chance. :)
I take your point, but give me that bloke who performs in a match to someone who trains the house down. How well did Cliffy train?
I played a lot more cricket than rugby and league but I clearly remember going to a club intrastate when I was transferred for my job and being really impressed by a bloke batting in the nets. I mentioned this to my new captain and he said "he never performs in a match". The guy did get picked again for a few matches that season and the captain was proven right: he couldn't score when it counted".
That's a long-winded way of saying the only form that matters is on game day.
 

The better Robbo

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Joined
Oct 5, 2017
Messages
1,405
I take your point, but give me that bloke who performs in a match to someone who trains the house down. How well did Cliffy train?
I played a lot more cricket than rugby and league but I clearly remember going to a club intrastate when I was transferred for my job and being really impressed by a bloke batting in the nets. I mentioned this to my new captain and he said "he never performs in a match". The guy did get picked again for a few matches that season and the captain was proven right: he couldn't score when it counted".
That's a long-winded way of saying the only form that matters is on game day.
Bellamy said the same about Munster. He said you would never select him based on training. I think a lesson to be learnt is Cust, he obviously wasn't training the house down as he only got selected through injury BUT come game day he is man of the match. I think picking someone based on training is another mistake Des makes
 

SeaEagleRock8

Sea Eagle Lach
Staff member
Premium Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2009
Messages
18,830
Fair point, but with the alternates not playing then all they have to impress with is last year's games and their trial form.
 

Shoe1

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2010
Messages
11,012
Realistically, with this covid thing, best to call off the season now. It looks obvious from the graph that it is time to avoid travel and crowds.
 

2020 Ladder

Team P W D L PD Pts
1 Panthers 13 11 1 1 150 23
2 Storm 13 11 0 2 188 22
3 Eels 13 11 0 2 124 22
4 Roosters 13 9 0 4 174 18
5 Raiders 13 8 0 5 27 16
6 Knights 13 7 1 5 71 15
7 Rabbitohs 13 7 0 6 52 14
8 Sharks 13 7 0 6 44 14
9 Sea Eagles 13 6 0 7 -48 12
10 Tigers 13 5 0 8 12 10
11 Warriors 13 5 0 8 -131 10
12 Dragons 13 4 0 9 -30 8
13 Titans 13 4 0 9 -153 8
14 Cowboys 13 3 0 10 -104 6
15 Broncos 13 3 0 10 -223 6
16 Bulldogs 13 2 0 11 -153 4
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