Kaeo Weekes

[Bearfax]

The issue is, as long as he's not pressing a compelling claim for the top 17, why would we keep him on the books if another club is willing to offer him top 17 cash?

I'm sure the Dogs regretted the decision.

 

[Bearfax]

As I see it, players are like wine (which I enjoy often). Some are ready to drink as soon as they are bottled and are an excellent delight. However, generally they plateau and over the years though still tasty, tend to lose their impact. Other wines are mediocre when first bottled. However given time and aging they increase in impact as the years go by. I think there's a tendency to stick with the immediate impact, rather than something that becomes perhaps better quality with further aging.

A small comparison. Foran burst on the scene aged 19 and was quickly a star player. For a couple of years he was one of the very best five eighths in the game. However, and a lot of injury contributed, he plateaued. Still a fine player but at 33 he is no longer the player he was. Then we look at Cherry Evans. He didn't get selected in the same side until he was 22. Played well but Foran was considered the star. Difference is Cherry Evans didn't plateau. He increased his skill set and now aged 34 he is now one of the two best half backs in the game.

Back when there was a choice between keeping Foran or DCE back in 2015, I wonder how many here would have said Foran. Certainly he seemed to be the Club's preference. I wonder how many would make the same choice today. Foran remains a good player, DCE has, like a vintage wine improved and while the younger Foran is not the player he was back in 2009-15, DCE is markedly better than he was during that period.

Some players need time to develop. Olakau'atu is a prime example. Fairly good to start but year by year he's improving and now show's Beetson like skills. Burbo a year ago was considered unlikely to make it, yet now is developing into a fine back rower. Patience. I think someone like Weekes needs us to be patient. Not saying he'll make it, but I'd hate another Gutherson. Lets give him a little time and see what he's got. Not costing us much, and I suspect he wants to stay.

 

[StuBoot]

It will be especially telling if the Dragons don't sign him. You'd think if Flanagan rated Weekes, he would snap him up.

Nah, he'll take Flanno jnr first.

 

[eaglebuzz]

I'm sure the Dogs regretted the decision.

Thurston was often badly outplayed by Orford during the height of his career whenever we played the Cows. Even the premiership the Cows did win - Jake Granville set up the first two tries, Michael Morgan set up the third. Thurston kicked an absolute sitter of a 20m field goal and they gave him the CC medal.

Really though most of his career highlights happened in a QLD origin side that was absolutely stacked with quality players. In club games he went missing more often than not when it actually counted.

 

[Volley]

I don't know .
He had plenty of chances to grab the bull by the horns,and never did.

We must have a different definition of the word plenty.

 

[TheSoaringEagle2023]

As I see it, players are like wine (which I enjoy often). Some are ready to drink as soon as they are bottled and are an excellent delight. However, generally they plateau and over the years though still tasty, tend to lose their impact. Other wines are mediocre when first bottled. However given time and aging they increase in impact as the years go by. I think there's a tendency to stick with the immediate impact, rather than something that becomes perhaps better quality with further aging.

A small comparison. Foran burst on the scene aged 19 and was quickly a star player. For a couple of years he was one of the very best five eighths in the game. However, and a lot of injury contributed, he plateaued. Still a fine player but at 33 he is no longer the player he was. Then we look at Cherry Evans. He didn't get selected in the same side until he was 22. Played well but Foran was considered the star. Difference is Cherry Evans didn't plateau. He increased his skill set and now aged 34 he is now one of the two best half backs in the game.

Back when there was a choice between keeping Foran or DCE back in 2015, I wonder how many here would have said Foran. Certainly he seemed to be the Club's preference. I wonder how many would make the same choice today. Foran remains a good player, DCE has, like a vintage wine improved and while the younger Foran is not the player he was back in 2009-15, DCE is markedly better than he was during that period.

Some players need time to develop. Olakau'atu is a prime example. Fairly good to start but year by year he's improving and now show's Beetson like skills. Burbo a year ago was considered unlikely to make it, yet now is developing into a fine back rower. Patience. I think someone like Weekes needs us to be patient. Not saying he'll make it, but I'd hate another Gutherson. Lets give him a little time and see what he's got. Not costing us much, and I suspect he wants to stay.

I think the reason why Weekes copped a heap of criticism was the expectancy of him to pretty much shoulder a lot of Turbo's work....which is pretty difficult or close to impossible.
Even when Turbo has a quiet game, his stats read as a man of the match performance for anyone else.

 

[Scorpio]

Weekes can just run along now. Seriously, how many opportunities do we give a talent before making a decision? I cannot remember an upcoming player given as many opportunities as Weekes has had.

Some people here think young players should never be dropped from first grade (even if their form warrants that decision), others think they should be jettisoned from the club after a few ordinary performances.

Glenn Stewart was in and out of first grade for 4 years before he finally nailed a starting spot, then never looked back.

As long as a player's ongoing form warrants it, then I have no problem with them being dropped to reserve grade, as long as they are told what they need to work on to earn their spot in first grade again.

 

[Steagle]

Nah, he'll take Flanno jnr first.

Reckon he will get an offer from the squeels

 

[Bearfax]

Thurston was often badly outplayed by Orford during the height of his career whenever we played the Cows. Even the premiership the Cows did win - Jake Granville set up the first two tries, Michael Morgan set up the third. Thurston kicked an absolute sitter of a 20m field goal and they gave him the CC medal.

Really though most of his career highlights happened in a QLD origin side that was absolutely stacked with quality players. In club games he went missing more often than not when it actually counted.

Hey DCE is outplayed on occasions by lesser lights. Happens. But I doubt there would be many who see Thurston as having been anything but outstanding during his career. I remember watching a number of his games for the Cows and I always thought he and Bowen were the keys to their sides attack. Sorry cant agree wit you Eagle.

 

[TheSoaringEagle2023]

Some people here think young players should never be dropped from first grade (even if their form warrants that decision), others think they should be jettisoned from the club after a few ordinary performances.

Glenn Stewart was in and out of first grade for 4 years before he finally nailed a starting spot, then never looked back.

As long as a player's ongoing form warrants it, then I have no problem with them being dropped to reserve grade, as long as they are told what they need to work on to earn their spot in first grade again.

Nothing wrong with being dropped, but to write them off as to never to play first grade again after a few appearances I think is non-sensical. Although if say you have someone who has been on the fringes for 4 or so years then maybe they aren't good enough.
With regards to Weekes, he pretty much bypassed BWSE / Reserve grade and went straight from Flegg/Harold Matthews to 1st grade. Big jump to go from playing against kids to not just playing men...but elite men in an elite competition. I think someone like GCKT probably was correctly eased into 1st grade, by having pretty much a full season playing in reserves.

 

[eaglebuzz]

Nothing wrong with being dropped, but to write them off as to never to play first grade again after a few appearances I think is non-sensical. Although if say you have someone who has been on the fringes for 4 or so years then maybe they aren't good enough.
With regards to Weekes, he pretty much bypassed BWSE / Reserve grade and went straight from Flegg/Harold Matthews to 1st grade. Big jump to go from playing against kids to not just playing men...but elite men in an elite competition. I think someone like GCKT probably was correctly eased into 1st grade, by having pretty much a full season playing in reserves.

I'm sure we'll keep him if he doesn't get a better offer, but right now I don't consider him a first grader.

 

[robbiea]

We must have a different definition of the word plenty.

There's hundreds of reserve graders that never get their one shot to "Make it".
Maybe plenty was over the top ,yes.
He has had more chances than a lot of others though.

 

[Bearfax]

My concern, as previously stated, is that Seibs is feeling under the hammer, recalling his time at the Broncs, and is looking for quick fix solutions. Penn wants results after years in the wilderness. Supporters are demanding success.

Though I understand the urgency, I think a lot depends on a balanced approach to getting success. We've seen how the Dogs spent a fortune bringing in players from outside letting many go and where has it go them. Manly are a bit the same. Success is something that develops through stability over time. Manly have had a good juniors progression but they seem to expect quick solutions from these kids and that rarely happens.

So many good players in the Manly past took several years in first grade to be the stars they became. Jumping about throwing out those you develop and bringing in others only to be disappointed, is shooting yourself in the foot. Like I said Melbourne and Sydney City handle this situation far more wisely. Expecting instant results such as expecting champion play from debutants is unrealistic. If I raised a child that way I'd be a pretty poor parent. Nurturing is an ongoing process and we all have to learn, make mistakes, take the knocks, harden up, but certainly not be discarded before we even have a chance to start.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Like I said Melbourne and Sydney City handle this situation far more wisely.

Serious? They can afford to have their 18-20 yo budding superstars biding their time patiently in lower grades because they are already successful in NRL at present. Manly is not.

Not to mention Melbourne and Chooks have far more budding teen superstars warming in the oven than we do, for all the oft-documented reasons why they are so advantaged.

I think Manly has done a good job bringing our front rowers through, Sipley's try v Panthers may be a huge milestone for him on his journey to become a dominant NRL prop.

Also Haumole, Koula, Schu and Burbo, developing at different rates but we've brought them through.

If the likes of the Fainus, Feledy Fifita & co were always going to wave goodbye (for family reasons) then better to do it before they become key members of our NRL side.

As for Weekes, I've suggested before it is simply for squad balance. Which position could he fill that we don't already have several ahead of him?

 

[manly al]

Doesn 't seem to be too much interest from other clubs and again doubt that he would be able to get a much better deal contract wise .
Now that Latu has moved on , could be some scope for a back up 6 opportunity .
Jacob Arthur offers some steady input and reasonable control as a 6 on most occasions . However not expected but can hardly compete with Weekes in a bit of an X factor comparison
Kaeo however would have to show a bit more game control factor at i st grade level in the halfs to be rated a more suited prospect there .
Again maybe some scope to measure up in a centre role but a bit of competition there as well .
Faualo probably a slightly better type finisher and making more of his opportunities at this stage so competition not just at N R L level but even with other emerging players .
Might be in his best interests to stick around for another season , if Latu Fainu was still in the system , probably not much inclination then if there was even limited appeal and opportunity elsewhere

Looks like he may be staying which is not such a bad outcome all round

 

[Bearfax]

Serious? They can afford to have their 18-20 yo budding superstars biding their time patiently in lower grades because they are already successful in NRL at present. Manly is not.

Not to mention Melbourne and Chooks have far more budding teen superstars warming in the oven than we do, for all the oft-documented reasons why they are so advantaged.

I think Manly has done a good job bringing our front rowers through, Sipley's try v Panthers may be a huge milestone for him on his journey to become a dominant NRL prop.

Also Haumole, Koula, Schu and Burbo, developing at different rates but we've brought them through.

If the likes of the Fainus, Feledy Fifita & co were always going to wave goodbye (for family reasons) then better to do it before they become key members of our NRL side.

As for Weekes, I've suggested before it is simply for squad balance. Which position could he fill that we don't already have several ahead of him?

SER8 what you say is in a sense correct but as I set it a..s about. The very fact they have budding super stars waiting patiently in lower grades while they have a successful first grade side is precisely the point. Manly dont have a successful side, and don't have the luxury of developing youngsters just to show them the door because they havent performed immediately. Yet they've bought average first graders, while their juniors are being told to look elsewhere instead of allowing them time to develop. Not logical. All the more reason these kids should be allowed to develop and moved into first grade gradually. Yes some players have been brought through nicely but others are being encouraged to leave. Let's not assume that the Fainus, Feledy, Fifita, Gutherson, Tom Wright etc were totally at fault. We dont know the politics here. All we know is good talent went elsewhere.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

I agree in the ideal world clubs keep young talent until they develop, except everyone doesn't develop to the standard required for NRL.
Also I disagree that Storm and Chooks handle this better. They simply have better resources to attract a continuous stream of talent. Storm showed Croft the door, Chooks showed Hastings the door, also Flanagan.

The other point is, how would Seibs go if he’d said, “Look I might win a couple of wooden spoons but in 3 or 5 years we’ll be going for the premiership”? We both know it would be, “OK thanks for your interest in the position! We’ll let you know”

 

[TheSoaringEagle2023]

I agree in the ideal world clubs keep young talent until they develop, except everyone doesn't develop to the standard required for NRL.
Also I disagree that Storm and Chooks handle this better. They simply have better resources to attract a continuous stream of talent. Storm showed Croft the door, Chooks showed Hastings the door, also Flanagan.

The other point is, how would Seibs go if he’d said, “Look I might win a couple of wooden spoons but in 3 or 5 years we’ll be going for the premiership”? We both know it would be, “OK thanks for your interest in the position! We’ll let you know”

Seibold's not the fittest looking specimen so that probably works against him as well.

 

[AlxFromNthNarra]

Some people here think young players should never be dropped from first grade (even if their form warrants that decision), others think they should be jettisoned from the club after a few ordinary performances.

Glenn Stewart was in and out of first grade for 4 years before he finally nailed a starting spot, then never looked back.

As long as a player's ongoing form warrants it, then I have no problem with them being dropped to reserve grade, as long as they are told what they need to work on to earn their spot in first grade again.

I often read in "Da Meejah" that a player being demoted to Reggies means they are 'on the outer' and suggests that player may be looking for a new club.

Its poison, bit not always untrue. Look at Lodge.

Hopefully the players that are dropped are assured that it's form-related, not 'bigger picture' club planning, and can cut thru the BS of the media.

We dropped a few players this last year - and you know what? They deserved to be dropped. But a lot of them are potential key players in future if they use it as motivation to sort their sh*t out, rather than sulk and take it as a personal insult, and shut up shop.

 

[TheSoaringEagle2023]

Nah, he'll take Flanno jnr first.

Ive heard Flanno speak highly of Weekes on radio.