Just a Short 2013 Intro LOL

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Little light on content and serious analysis TC. I'll wait for the unabridged version.
 
Let me preface this post by noting that I think Tooves will develop into a great coach in time. I was saying similar things about Hasler until 2008, so please people don't read this post as an attack on Tooves or a call for him to go.

The reason our 2012 attack was pedestrian was because of the amount of scrambling defence we had to do. The real problem throughout 2012 was our defence. The stats look Ok, but that's because of the extreme effort expended in scrambling. From 2007 to 2011 we had a classic "up & in" style of defence with fast line speed. This meant the opposition were more often confined to the middle third of the field. In 2012 I cannot count the number of times we were caught sliding and backing up, which is utterly energy sapping with the previously mentioned scramble. Low energy left means players switch into autopilot in attack.

Fix the defence and the attack will follow.

Tooves has coached 4 big games, the WCC and three semi finals for one win. He was clearly out coached in two of those games and I hope he's learned the tough lessons from that.
 
Fair comment Ralphie, he was on L plates in 2012, hopefully he moves to P ( at least) this year.
 
Whilst everyone has their opinions on Toovey I do not see any problem with his interactions with players / media / club officials etc.

Clearly he is a different style of person to Ha$ler - but that does not mean he does not have the package to succeed as a first grade coach.

Give the bloke some time & credit - he was not suppose to be the coach last year - got thrust in there years ahead of the business plan, took over under rumours and inuendos, with a very bitter environment surrounding him and the club.

But hey we were 1 game off maKing the GF !! Those statistics reflect the man he is. Geez I find it hard how people can't warm to him here.

Ha$ler was / is a bully. Fullstop. We saw that magnified after he left us high & dry and the emails and his behaviour of poaching staff was leaked to the SMH / media.

We do not want a bully at the helm, we want a true Manly legend leading us.:)
 
Ok guys, forget the coach - say we had Bellamy.

I still believe we need new innovative plays. I still believe we need a more consistent effort in defense, because at times this past season, we were unbreakable, and had the best defense in the league. That shows we have the talent, we just need the commitment and consistency.

I was unhappy about Glenn Stewart's year. He needs a few more cogs in his game, or he'll be heavily and easily marked like he was this past season.

Hopefully Joey Johns helps our halves be more diverse and spontaneous. I thought our usual plays (which are very good - but known to the opposition) happened too frequently.

Ok, injuries plagued us. And if guys like Tony Williams was hanging around the squad not committed to the cause as he was quoted in saying, then there's that as well.

That doesn't detract from the fact that I believe there is a lot of improvement in a lot of areas we could and should see. Just the 1 percenter's. Wingers ability under the high ball. Foran doing different things (I believe he himself said he wants a better 2013). G Stewart changing up his game - I really want to see him with more room, and time again somehow.

Maybe even a halves utility that could come in and change the play if we are getting bogged down (Liam Foran??). I remember 3-4 years ago, we had Le'strange on the bench, and when he came on, we looked like a different team (I know it was at Hooker). Heck, could Liam Higgins be that guy?

I guess what I'm saying, is we need to be "different" to catch the opposition off guard. Bellamy does that with Melbourne (much to peoples dismay). Des did that in the later years with Manly.

And 1947 - Des is, was, and always will be a Manly legend mate. People are only upset, because we lost such a valuable asset. He played in 255 games for Manly, scoring 72 tries. He played 24 games for NSW and Australia while playing for us. He coached us for 206 games, and won 2 premierships. Des will always be Manly.
 
Mark from Brisbane said:
Fair comment Ralphie, he was on L plates in 2012, hopefully he moves to P ( at least) this year.

That's "P" for Premiers!


wooot!
 
Ryan, Bellamy has Slater, Smith, Cronk and a host of other Rep players.

He's not the messiah, he's a salary cap cheat.

He doesn't change his style unless the refs crack down on his latest innovation (Cheating tactic).

If we ever had him as a coach, I would suspend my membership for the duration of his tenure.


Mark from Brisbane said:
Fair comment Ralphie, he was on L plates in 2012, hopefully he moves to P ( at least) this year.

Despite my concerns about our defence, I think we are as good a chance as anyone to win the comp this year.
 
Certainly agree about the auto pilot attack and constantly going to our predictable plays left and right. Big reason was that Gift had an interrupted season and seened to just hang out wide waiting for the play to come to him. On the other side Tdog was just a liability slow, lazy non committed -good riddance. 2013 will rely heavily on Choc, Fa'aoso , Horo & Lawrence giving us straight hard yards and quick play the balls. If they dont fire for us we will struggle to match the top teams again.We need agression in attack as well as defense and we will rely heavily on these guys to give it to us. With that our halves will have the guile to create match winning plays. That is where Joey is going to play a huge part for us. He wont be on the field but I feel his style of plays are going to shine through those young halves and it will be magic to watch.
 
Ryan said:
I guess what I'm saying, is we need to be "different" to catch the opposition off guard. Bellamy does that with Melbourne (much to peoples dismay). Des did that in the later years with Manly.

Bellamy rarely changes a thing; he's got the best fullback and hooker (player) in the game running things with a top 3 halfback. The only observable change to Bellamy's tactics was to throw it around more after the 2010 SC rort broke. But his style returned to pre-rort coaching for the last two years because it is simple and works; but needs the likes of Smith to make it happen, and Slater to capitalise on it.

Des' style was pretty much the same from year to year, IMO. Subtle changes but essentially it was high-intensity defence leading to more ball in the back end of games to run away with a match. Key injuries killed off this charge for a few seasons, something that Bellamy has been largely blessed with. A Smith-less Storm is barely a top 8 side.
 
That is where Joey is going to play a huge part for us. He wont be on the field

He should run the water like 2V did. That would be awesum.
 
manlyfan76 said:
That is where Joey is going to play a huge part for us. He wont be on the field

He should run the water like 2V did. That would be awesum.

I think that his Ch Nein commitments would rule that out.
 
I think that his Ch Nein commitments would rule that out.

Surely he could combine both, they could compliment each other!
 
TC, respectfully disagree.

We have the best halves combo in the comp, bar none.

Will they deliver in 2013? I think they will get their second title in 2013, they are just so much better than any other halves combo. Natural ability, toughness, skill, precision, you name it, no other team can claim to have what we have.

Will they be given the best tactics to work with? Well all comes down to whether you trust Toovs and his support team, and I do!
 
Ryan said:
And 1947 - Des is, was, and always will be a Manly legend mate. People are only upset, because we lost such a valuable asset. He played in 255 games for Manly, scoring 72 tries. He played 24 games for NSW and Australia while playing for us. He coached us for 206 games, and won 2 premierships. Des will always be Manly.

This has all been said so many times before. So will keep it short Ryan.

Des conducted himself in one of the most unprofessional and unethical ways at the back end of the 2011 season and for that reason in my mind he is not a Manly legend.
 
silvertail said:
TC, respectfully disagree.

We have the best halves combo in the comp, bar none.

Will they deliver in 2013? I think they will get their second title in 2013, they are just so much better than any other halves combo. Natural ability, toughness, skill, precision, you name it, no other team can claim to have what we have.

Will they be given the best tactics to work with? Well all comes down to whether you trust Toovs and his support team, and I do!

I never stated we do not have the best or one of the best halves combinations, the issue is we are not scoring enough points at critical times of the game when we are dominating.

We have our own trademark plays that work well against your average defences yet at times still lacks a smarter deeper science about it that will maintain composure under pressure.

Too often observers look at the defence and think "we are leaking points more so than last year the defence must be the issue" when sometimes the issues are created from an inefficient poorly structured predictable attack and poor go forward. Keeping your defence sharp and fresh by taking pressure off your defensive effort in terms of controlling a greater percentage of possession and field position will reduce scrambling defence.

Yes defensive structure and attitude at times is the cause but in most cases at manly we have a decent defensive structure and the effort levels are normally at a good level. There was a few games last year though where the effort was lacking but by and large Manly squads over the past 5yrs have usually put in.


Hamster Huey said:
Ryan said:
I guess what I'm saying, is we need to be "different" to catch the opposition off guard. Bellamy does that with Melbourne (much to peoples dismay). Des did that in the later years with Manly.

Bellamy rarely changes a thing; he's got the best fullback and hooker (player) in the game running things with a top 3 halfback. The only observable change to Bellamy's tactics was to throw it around more after the 2010 SC rort broke. But his style returned to pre-rort coaching for the last two years because it is simple and works; but needs the likes of Smith to make it happen, and Slater to capitalise on it.

Des' style was pretty much the same from year to year, IMO. Subtle changes but essentially it was high-intensity defence leading to more ball in the back end of games to run away with a match. Key injuries killed off this charge for a few seasons, something that Bellamy has been largely blessed with. A Smith-less Storm is barely a top 8 side.

I agree 100% the consistent performing teams tweak and add a little to their own structures every year(not large scale changes) and set the tone for other clubs to catch up and follow. They basically try and improve their current style and structures through increased speed/sharpness and add a little something new to spice things up.

From 2006/07 to 2012 Melbourne and Manly have led the charge in terms of attacking and defensive structures(including both teams mastering the wrestle and having others follow) plus raising the intensity and fitness levels.

Both clubs have improved the off and on field performance data retention and rehab also but it's getting to a point now where most clubs are carbon copies of each other--- it's time to start adding more elements to catch teams off guard like 07 08.

I also still believe the Manly squad has a self confidence drop in the big games against a Melb outfit containing Smith, we have not overcome this hurdle yet and to me it showed in the choking performance of the last game of 2012 and at Brookie also.(Melb still have the stronger mental edge over all clubs but is starting to show signs of fading)

Manly should gain confidence in the fact that even if they choked and showed signs of a long season during that last game with 20mins to go they were i think only down by 8---if Manly were on their game they would have easily made the GF.
 
The question of the ability of the coach cannot be overstated. The past seven Grand Final Wins have been shared between just three coaches.

2006 - Bennett - Donkeys
2007 - King Grub - Purple Scum (Cheating)
2008 - Ha$$ler - Manly
2009 - King Grub - Purple Scum (Cheating)
2010 - Bennett - Illawarra
2011 - Ha$$ler - Manly
2012 - King Grub - Purple Scum

So for Tooves to win in 2013 he will need to lift his game to be the equal of those three or better. I see him achieving that in a couple of years from now, but not in his second year, although I sincerely hope he proves me wrong.

Ha$$ler took five years to get there, even Bennett took fours years with what was essentially the Qld SOO team (1988-1991, just counting the Donkeys, longer if you count Canberra).

Tooves is in a very difficult position, taking over after a GF win and a club and supporters with such high expectations.
 
Slater didnt play for 6 weeks and Storm lost 5 last year.Coincidence, I think not.I cannot think of a team in history who has basically had the uninterrupted use of 3 superstars(2 of whom will be likely immortals) for almost 10 years with virtually zero injury.Their time will come and they will face the same challenges we did last year at some stage.If last year with Slater and the 2008 GF is a guide to how they deal with the odd superstar injury then it wont be pretty when a couple go down and history suggests they are due.

Bellamy will need to do a Bennett to get finally crowned a master by getting a less gifted side home.I think he will be a big success at another club(despite my deep seated hatred of his wrestling methods that are now a huge part of our game) but until he wins minus Smith Slater and Cronk and an unlimited chequebook re staff/facilities/technology etc the jury is still out.
 

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