Is Weekes the next Gutherson

[Disco]

Same thing happened to Albert Hopoate at the Raiders, in and out of 1st grade since he's been there.

Hoppa played 20 games last year

 

[Tragic Eagle]

No

 

[Jay Eagle]

Just to double down. Out of his 9 appearances last year he was only on the field for 80 minutes 3 times (another 70). Oh and he never got back to back full games.
In his remaining 5 games he averaged less than 20 minutes on the field

Again not saying he is the next great player but it is not exactly fair to say that he was "given a run"

The best players shine in just 20 minute stints.. he had 3 full games and 1 for 70mins and you think he didn't have enough time to step up???.

Look at the history of the game and it's "potential" stars and what they do with 2 or 3 appearances

Seriously the real stars shine after coming on for 15 to 20 mins and don't look back
Sualauvi Faalogo
Billy Slater
Geoff Toovey
Harry Grant
Selwyn Cobbo
Benji Marshall
Bradman Best
Brett Stewart
Tommy T
Just to name a few
Even Matthew Ridge, never played a single game until he debut for us and gets MOM.
They are superstars

As for Gutho you can add him to that list above, he had NRL player written all over him in his few appearances for Manly, its just that he had Brett Stewart and Tommy T in front of him And the club made the right choice for the club and for Gutho.

The moral of the story is simple if they have star potential they show it straight up at NRL level and then go on

Weekes may end up a solid NRL player just like Albert Hoppa but neither will be a real super star

So answering the thread question.. there's no comparison between Gutho and Weekes

 

[Jay Eagle]

Gutho has star potential and showed it in his limited appearances for us.

He just had Brett Stewart and Tommy T in front of him

The club made the right decision for Manly and Gutho

Gutho and Weekes is no comparison.. Gutho has star potential and showed it when given the opportunity

Weekes had star potential and did very little at NRL level.. so although he may go on to be a handy NRL player he is no star

Just like Albert Hoppa..remember him..the next king on ST

 

[Eagle 1]

Hoppa played 20 games last year

Year before, mainly reserve grade, then lost his place in the finals last season.

 

[frank stokes]

Gutho has star potential and showed it in his limited appearances for us.

He just had Brett Stewart and Tommy T in front of him

The club made the right decision for Manly and Gutho

Gutho and Weekes is no comparison.. Gutho has star potential and showed it when given the opportunity

Weekes had star potential and did very little at NRL level.. so although he may go on to be a handy NRL player he is no star

Just like Albert Hoppa..remember him..the next king on ST

You left out one important factor with Gutho… he was busted - had 2 knee reconstructions with us and looked like he was going to be a liability going forward… the talent was always obvious when he was actually playing…

 

[BOZO]

Is Weekes the next Gutho ??
To me Weekes is a Week to Week proposition who has failed to cement any field position
But then again he could be a late bloomer

 

[Terry Zarsoff]

Claeo Weekerson.

 

[Terry Zarsoff]

Gutho has star potential and showed it in his limited appearances for us.

He just had Brett Stewart and Tommy T in front of him

The club made the right decision for Manly and Gutho

Gutho and Weekes is no comparison.. Gutho has star potential and showed it when given the opportunity

Weekes had star potential and did very little at NRL level.. so although he may go on to be a handy NRL player he is no star

Just like Albert Hoppa..remember him..the next king on ST

We could have done with CG on all those occasions when the Great White Hopevic was out injured.

 

[lsz]

I tend to disagree, Isz. Yes, some consistency in the same position and belief from the coaching staff to do a job certainly helps the confidence of new up-comers. That said, Weekes was given multiple opportunities to snatch the opportunitity and play first grade. He failed miserably. Any hungry fringe player would have snapped up those multiple opportunities afforded to Weekes and shown “something”.. “anything”… yes, he may still come good (anything is possible), but Manly had given him more than enough opportunity.

I think this is one where we will have to agree to disagree

Again I have no idea if he is going to be a world beater or not but to play in the backline in inconsistent positions often as an injury replacement is not an easy task.

Also if you can get past his clear and obvious agendas Gus Gould make a very relevant point on the impact of COVID and the development of kids - there is a real missing generation / slow to rise crop of kids out there

 

[lsz]

The best players shine in just 20 minute stints.. he had 3 full games and 1 for 70mins and you think he didn't have enough time to step up???.

Look at the history of the game and it's "potential" stars and what they do with 2 or 3 appearances

Seriously the real stars shine after coming on for 15 to 20 mins and don't look back
Sualauvi Faalogo
Billy Slater
Geoff Toovey
Harry Grant
Selwyn Cobbo
Benji Marshall
Bradman Best
Brett Stewart
Tommy T
Just to name a few
Even Matthew Ridge, never played a single game until he debut for us and gets MOM.
They are superstars

As for Gutho you can add him to that list above, he had NRL player written all over him in his few appearances for Manly, its just that he had Brett Stewart and Tommy T in front of him And the club made the right choice for the club and for Gutho.

The moral of the story is simple if they have star potential they show it straight up at NRL level and then go on

Weekes may end up a solid NRL player just like Albert Hoppa but neither will be a real super star

So answering the thread question.. there's no comparison between Gutho and Weekes

Agree to disagree. Also it is far too simplistic to just name players and say they looked like superstars when there plenty that take their time.

Just off your list

Bradman Best was being shopped by the knights for the first part of last year, Ridge was an all black hardly a rookie, Brett did he should the first game and was not seen again that year.

I am not saying he will be a star, all I am saying is that he would need more of a run before you could write him off. I think we looked at him and did not think he fit in either the 1, 3/4 or 6 which is why he was cut

 

[Rocky]

Weekes had no spot in this years Manly team. Just like he didn't at the end of last year.

That's not to say he won't turn out to be a good player. But Manly did the right thing by the club, and by Weekes, in letting him go and take an opportunity elsewhere.

 

[Bearfax]

Just a few corrections to players being identified in comparison to Weekes.

Albert Hopoate played 20 games for Canberra last year in a side that made the finals and was in a permanent wing position. Hardly a fialure. Gutherson did not star for Manly early in his first grade career. He played only 5 games with the Sea Eagles. Injury plagued him in his first few years. He signed a 2 year contract with Manly and then soon after was given permission to sign elsewhere.

Certainly Gutherson had Stewart and Turbo vying for full back, but Brett was on his last legs and as mentioned Manly had only a few months earlier resigned the kid for 2 years. I think the injuries more than available positions led to his departure. And note he often played 5/8, a position we have been starved of for the past decade.

Weekes played 12 games for Manly so hardly a means of determining his worthiness, especially when considering he was playing behind a side languishing near the bottom of the table. Both Saab and Koula, despite their exceptional speed, were not otherwise looked upon with great favour initially.

As I suggested lack of patience has led to many leaving for greener pastures. Not as bad as Wests, but you dont see players with talent leaking out of SC and Melbourne, especially when your junior strength is limited..

 

[Darren]

I just can't see where Weekes would fit with us? Not at 1, 6, 7, 9 or 14. Tom or Tolu, Brooks, DCE, Froggy, Gordon and Jamie. Maybe as a 14 but the two young guys are talented too. We are chasing the gun half from the tigers so not long term for 7 for Weekes.

 

[Bearfax]

I just can't see where Weekes would fit with us? Not at 1, 6, 7, 9 or 14. Tom or Tolu, Brooks, DCE, Froggy, Gordon and Jamie. Maybe as a 14 but the two young guys are talented too. We are chasing the gun half from the tigers so not long term for 7 for Weekes.

And it seems that was one of the reasons Gutherson left. Yet in following years his talent could have been seriously valued in a team that went down hill for the next half a decade. You have to turn the argument around. Don't ask what he can do for Manly today. Ask what Manly would do if in a year or two such skills are developed and were suddenly needed but had been lost. You can never know fully what future needs will be.

Once they've gone, that opportunity is kaput. I know its hard with the salary cap, but young up and comers cost far less initially than established players brought in, and they are better adapted to the Manly style of play and team mates. Most of Manly's previous stars were brought through the junior system, or were young imports yet to show their true value, and few of them were instant stars. They were allowed time to adapt and develop

We were lucky to snare Brookes and I hope he succeeds, but what would Manly have done if they hadn't grabbed him. And what happens, as one news item asked, if he fails. Eggs in one basket case. Remember the great hopes with the Northern Eagles with the pairing of Toovey and Jason Taylor. Didn't work, despite the undoubted talents of both players.

Manly have let go the two up and comers in Weekes and Latu Fainu who could have developed. They are seeking instant gratification and success. Hope it happens. I think though, too often, there's a sense to compare previously players based on what they became, not what they were at their developing stage. Takes time to build Rome

 

[Darren]

I think we will spend big time on a half when DCE finishes. Latu needs a few more years so may get him back etc at the right time. The young Alexander is going great guns in matts I hear too.

 

[Scorpio]

Just a few corrections to players being identified in comparison to Weekes.

Albert Hopoate played 20 games for Canberra last year in a side that made the finals and was in a permanent wing position. Hardly a fialure. Gutherson did not star for Manly early in his first grade career. He played only 5 games with the Sea Eagles. Injury plagued him in his first few years. He signed a 2 year contract with Manly and then soon after was given permission to sign elsewhere.

Certainly Gutherson had Stewart and Turbo vying for full back, but Brett was on his last legs and as mentioned Manly had only a few months earlier resigned the kid for 2 years. I think the injuries more than available positions led to his departure. And note he often played 5/8, a position we have been starved of for the past decade.

Weekes played 12 games for Manly so hardly a means of determining his worthiness, especially when considering he was playing behind a side languishing near the bottom of the table. Both Saab and Koula, despite their exceptional speed, were not otherwise looked upon with great favour initially.

As I suggested lack of patience has led to many leaving for greener pastures. Not as bad as Wests, but you dont see players with talent leaking out of SC and Melbourne, especially when your junior strength is limited..

I'm pretty sure it's as simple as, Manly don't see him as the #1 option in any starting position at the moment... so with that knowledge he could have either:
a) Signed a contract to stay here, but the contract value would have reflected that he would be a reserve/utility, and he would have only got limited opportunities accordingly, or,
b) He could look elsewhere for another club that had vacancy in a starting position, he would have more opportunities to prove his worth there.

Canberra had a vacancy for their starting 5/8 role and gave him an offer so that's where he went, best of luck to him.

 

[Bearfax]

I'm pretty sure it's as simple as, Manly don't see him as the #1 option in any starting position at the moment... so with that knowledge he could have either:
a) Signed a contract to stay here, but the contract value would have reflected that he would be a reserve/utility, and he would have only got limited opportunities accordingly, or,
b) He could look elsewhere for another club that had vacancy in a starting position, he would have more opportunities to prove his worth there.

Canberra had a vacancy for their starting 5/8 role and gave him an offer so that's where he went, best of luck to him.

Accept that Scorpio. No doubt the same applied to Gutherson. What I was trying to get across is that thinking for the moment only, often can lead to lack of options when vacancies occur. Eggs in one basket so to speak. Having someone of potential on standby who knows he's next cab off the rank I would have thought wise. I realise they could make good somewhere else, and they do, don't they. Selfish to keep them. Damned right but ensures one has effective back ups, something Manly have struggled with for almost the past decade. From what I read both Gutherson and Weekes wanted to stay, but were encouraged to look elsewhere. If you feel you're not wanted, do you stay?

 

[mave]

Whilstever our illustrious owner imposes KPIs on the Coach, why would the Coach look any further ahead than meeting the current KPI.

 

[LeonardCohen]

These sorts of conversations are pointless. There's a salary cap, there's players developing later than others, there's family reasons, players all vying for the same position, etc. there are so many variables.

Players don't always leave because they're considered 'not good enough'. Weekes and Gutherson are both talented footballers but Gutherson was behind Turbo and although 6 was floated as a potential option, he has gone onto be a career fullback elsewhere; we'll never know. He hasn't led Parramatta to a title, so what's to say he would have done that for Manly? We move on.

Weekes looks a talent but again, we've got Turbo and we've got Brooks. Both are better in their respective positions at this stage of their careers. Weekes may go on and be successful, I hope so. Again, we move on. It's footy. This black and white notion that we have failed as a club every time a player leaves and makes something of themselves, is fairytale stuff.

Penrith are the benchmark and they've had to let a number of promising juniors go in the last few seasons, on top of some serious big name players. That's footy.