Is our pack too big?

[Tomay]

We could do with some of the coin invested in our premier middles being distributed to our edges and especially wing. It would best capitalise on the young promising guys we have coming through (Keppie, paseka) that are cheaper and could just add an old cheap bench veteran in place 4/5. Saying that it would be sad to see either Marty or AFB go.

 

[Deleted member 26876]

I reckon it's a huge problem with our squad, especially now that the back row has died in form and all we have is big props and jake

IMO our problems in order
1. No quality hooker
2. Lack of versatility in the forwards
3. Lack of backline punch/speed

The forwards will do ok with a good number 9 and even the backs will do alright if there is a good forward pack. The problem is top-down and all caused by Fainu hanging around the wrong people

 

[Blake A]

The modern lock has become more of a link with the halves (and Des pioneered this at the Dogs). This allows both halves to play wider and play more of a second receiver / five-eighth role. Jake/Radley/Brown/Yeo/Finucane all play a distributor type role. While Jake probably has the best ball skills of that group he is also the least dynamic with his speed and footwork to take the line on to keep them guessing.

With that being the case, I think Schuster would be the ideal 13 going forward. I like Cust and would like to give him more time to develop and having Schuster inside him would potentially hold up the defence giving him more time.

So my ideal 17 next year:

1 Turbo
2 Hoppa
3 Walker (as he's contracted for 2021 then move him on and bring Funa in fulltime)
4 Suli
5 Garrick
6 Cust
7 DCE
8 AFB
9 Fainu
10 Jake
11 Siro
12 Haumole
13 Schuster

14 *Backup hooker (not Levi or Croker)
15 Parker
16 Marty
17 Paseka

Keppie would be first man up, but don't think we need to carry 3 props on the bench when Jake can play 80 if needed.

Parker to become a hybrid edge forward / centre (think Chris Lawrence)

The main issue is hooker. As I said, this is my 'ideal' side, but with Fainu out until at least July, we need a hooker, probably two. I like Levi's effort but he's just not up to it IMO. Maybe look at Peats on a one year deal and look to bring Joey Lussick or Matt Parcell back from the UK to play 14, both who are off contract I believe.

Parker is fine bringing the ball back out of our red zone every now and then, but to turn him into an edge forward who would have to tackle much bigger bodies and take several hit ups a game is a step too far in my opinion. Frankly, he would get smashed.

 

[Blake A]

I think our forwards are fine... the problem is that our game plan and useless backline means that our forwards are overworked and over relied on. Our forwards would be spared a lot of their hard work if our backline once in a while created something and took over on tackles 4,5&6. Our backline is nothing short of appalling... it lacks all the requirements of backs... speed, creativity, good footwork, height (wingers), passing ability (in general)... when your forward pack is as likely to create tries as your backline is, you know your backline sux.

 

[40 years an eagle]

I reckon it's a huge problem with our squad, especially now that the back row has died in form and all we have is big props and jake

IMO our problems in order
1. No quality hooker
2. Lack of versatility in the forwards
3. Lack of backline punch/speed

The forwards will do ok with a good number 9 and even the backs will do alright if there is a good forward pack. The problem is top-down and all caused by Fainu hanging around the wrong people

I'm surprised you don't see our lack of a game-managing half as one of our 3 biggest problems...let alone the biggest. It is number 1 for me.

 

[40 years an eagle]

I think our forwards are fine... the problem is that our game plan and useless backline means that our forwards are overworked and over relied on. Our forwards would be spared a lot of their hard work if our backline once in a while created something and took over on tackles 4,5&6. Our backline is nothing short of appalling... it lacks all the requirements of backs... speed, creativity, good footwork, height (wingers), passing ability (in general)... when your forward pack is as likely to create tries as your backline is, you know your backline sux.

I don't believe our "backline" is as big a problem as it appears, sure it's not great but the problem is how the backline is initiated/brought into the play. In general the backline is used when they have no room, and are very flat. Edge forwards should be used sparingly, as a weapon, not a part of the backline. Most times they should be running decoy and fed only when they may hit a hole. We are so predictable on the edges and in return our backs have no space. Did I say we are FAR too flat in attack?

 

[Deleted member 26876]

I'm surprised you don't see our lack of a game-managing half as one of our 3 biggest problems...let alone the biggest. It is number 1 for me.

100%, slipped my mind. Doesn't even need to be a star but definitely need a game-manager and that's why I put the dummy half problem as our top one because Fainu in a sense was developing into our game-manager, directing our attack and getting our forwards running onto the ball and everyone invested and involved.

I put it to this
1. No quality number 9/no directing halfback (one would be great, having both would be huge)
2. Lack of versatility in the forwards
3. Lack of backline punch

 

[Dan]

Well the Mrs says no, my pack is fine

 

[bSw]

I think it's more to do with the team selections. I'd have Sipley, Boyle, Olakau-atu and Schuster in my 17 and they are all massive boys. Des just picks the wrong forwards as opposed to us being too big. It's our game control and backline that is the problem. Teams running through our middle has more to do with us not being able to build pressure, giving away too many penalties and set restarts

And when the back 5 can't get us out of our own 20, how can anyone expect our middles to do everything??

Panthers, storm, raiders have monster packs... If anything, Levi is too small

Also let's not forget Thommo and Jake are well underdone this year and have both been physically weak as piss

 

[bSw]

100%, slipped my mind. Doesn't even need to be a star but definitely need a game-manager and that's why I put the dummy half problem as our top one because Fainu in a sense was developing into our game-manager, directing our attack and getting our forwards running onto the ball and everyone invested and involved.

I put it to this
1. No quality number 9/no directing halfback (one would be great, having both would be huge)
2. Lack of versatility in the forwards
3. Lack of backline punch

Pretty much the only 3 things you need to field a rugby league team

 

[XV-1]

Bring Liam Knight back to Manly. Faster than any other of our forwards.

 

[Freagle]

And when the back 5 can't get us out of our own 20, how can anyone expect our middles to do everything??

Panthers, storm, raiders have monster packs... If anything, Levi is too small

Also let's not forget Thommo and Jake are well underdone this year and have both been physically weak as piss

All those packs though, seem to mix up bigger forwards with smaller ones. Raiders I couldn’t call monsters... Papalii is huge but mobile, and only what, 110kg. Dunamis Lui is not big for a prop at all. Interesting that the Panthers have bulked up Fisher-Harris and turned him into a prop, he’s a lot more mobile than most. Storm have som huge guys, for sure - but also smaller ones in and around the big guys.

 

[maxta]

I'm not sure Big is the problem but more mobility.....100% get the point and theme of the thread, particularly the back end of halves when the defence consistently opens up more and looks like poor defensive plays by the outside backs, but truth be known, all starts in the middle...

 

[bSw]

All those packs though, seem to mix up bigger forwards with smaller ones. Raiders I couldn’t call monsters... Papalii is huge but mobile, and only what, 110kg. Dunamis Lui is not big for a prop at all. Interesting that the Panthers have bulked up Fisher-Harris and turned him into a prop, he’s a lot more mobile than most. Storm have som huge guys, for sure - but also smaller ones in and around the big guys.

How I miss choc and gifty

 

[XV-1]

Cameron Murray on 500k vs Jake Tolman on 900k.

Who is taking unders for their team?

 

[Ranga]

Cameron Murray on 500k vs Jake Tolman on 900k.

Who is taking unders for their team?

Where did you get that figure for Cam? He re-signed this year through to the end of 2025, so I figured he’d be on much more than that.

 

[Deleted member 26876]

Bring Liam Knight back to Manly. Faster than any other of our forwards.

Great idea

 

[Evo]

Good thread but NUP. We'll look small against the Melbourne pack this week.....and I like that Bellyache has a crack and plays Nelson the man monster at 13 to see how it goes. Jake HAS to change his game and farkn crunch in defence like he used to. Opposition would always be looking for him, I havent seen a Jake hit for yonks. Is his shoulder still dodge?

Just need more energy, line speed, attitude and aggression which starts between the ears.....and better rotation. Keppie, Olakau & Paseka are guns and deserve more time off the pine. Cannot believe Olakau can't make the bench.

 

[Scorpio]

AFB, Marty, Keppie and Paseka should in theory be one of the best prop rotations in the NRL. But something is missing.

Lack of offloads? No support runners? Or are we just too flat and shallow in attack?

I think it is a whole-of-team issue, without Tom and Manase we seem to have lost direction and haven't really adapted.

 

[germaneagle]

Not in the brains department.