Is our pack too big?

[1978]

Much has been made of our terrible backline. Less considered is whether our pack is too big and lacks agility:

• We have three props in starting six (including Jake)
• Jake is slow for a modern lock
• Our main props are giants
• Sironen looks slower (is he injured?)
• Des was obsessed with giant forwards at Bulldogs (look how that worked out at end, when game sped up).
• The best forwards these days seem to be dynamic, smaller types: Cam Murray, Radley, Liam Martin at Panthers
• Manly used to be known for mobile back-rowers (Kosef/Gartner/Menzies ... Menzies/Watmough/Stewart/Buhrer).

My pack next year:

• Jake (prop)
• Fainu (hopefully)
• Marty
• Schuster
• Haumole
• Sironen (lock, middle forward)
• Bench: Levi, AFB, Paseka, Miski/Jorge (one of them needs to be converted to a backrower over off-season, and also to provide backline cover off bench).

I'd love to see Miski turned into a small forward. 100kg, very strong. Looks like a nuggety, fast small-forward potentially.

 

[Tomay]

Yes i believe so. Our line speed reflects this. Some of our bigger guys are great with the ball in hand but struggle with lateral agility. Saying that I like each of them, just maybe not as a combination.

 

[Chip and Chase]

I agree we lack that real dynamic middle forward that has good footwork and can find their front for a quick play the ball. It's dynamic hit ups that punch through the line and get a quick play the ball that frees up the halves to work their magic against a retreating defence. Cam Murray, Lolo, Radley, Nathan Brown, Yeo, Barnett....there's a few of them around. We seem to always get held up for a dance with 3 defenders or turtled on our backs too often, kills the ruck speed and advantage is lost. That's one area we could improve.

 

[The better Robbo]

Much has been made of our terrible backline. Less considered is whether our pack is too big and lacks agility:

• We have three props in starting six (including Jake)
• Jake is slow for a modern lock
• Our main props are giants
• Sironen looks slower (is he injured?)
• Des was obsessed with giant forwards at Bulldogs (look how that worked out at end, when game sped up).
• The best forwards these days seem to be dynamic, smaller types: Cam Murray, Radley, Liam Martin at Panthers
• Manly used to be known for mobile back-rowers (Kosef/Gartner/Menzies ... Menzies/Watmough/Stewart/Buhrer).

My pack next year:

• Jake (prop)
• Fainu (hopefully)
• Marty
• Schuster
• Haumole
• Sironen (lock, middle forward)
• Bench: Levi, AFB, Paseka, Miski/Jorge (one of them needs to be converted to a backrower over off-season, and also to provide backline cover off bench).

I'd love to see Miski turned into a small forward. 100kg, very strong. Looks like a nuggety, fast small-forward potentially.

I think it's more to do with the team selections. I'd have Sipley, Boyle, Olakau-atu and Schuster in my 17 and they are all massive boys. Des just picks the wrong forwards as opposed to us being too big. It's our game control and backline that is the problem. Teams running through our middle has more to do with us not being able to build pressure, giving away too many penalties and set restarts

 

[40 years an eagle]

Maybe not so much "too big", more like not agile enough, slow, lethargic, lumbering and not aggressive or willing enough.
Maybe they can be all those things but it's just a lack of motivation and desire.
A pack of 9 Taumalolo's would be perfect, so "big" in itself is not the problem.

 

[mickqld]

Too slow because too injured more like it.
AFB knee ligaments
Marty major concussion Ill effects
Siro chronic knee ligaments
Thommo tongue, knee and shoulder
Jake off season major shoulder surgery.

 

[manlyfan76]

Jake really is a great player.
Hes not the lock we need.

 

[Disco]

[*]The best forwards these days seem to be dynamic, smaller types: Cam Murray, Radley, Liam Martin at Panthers

Haha what?

Good young players but Taumalolo, Papali'i, Haas, Klemmer, Frizell, Cordner, Jake, Marty, AFB, D Fifita, Bateman all say hi.

Not to mention Kikau, Paulo, D Saifiti, Matterson, Taukiaho (sp?)


Also Radley has big bodies in JWH, Collins and Tauk in his pack
Murray the Burges monsters and Martin ha Tamou, JFH and Kikau.

Maybe a better statement would be "The speed of the game also allows smaller more agile forwards to make an impact"

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Interesting topic.
Probably as in most other eras of league, the key is to have a balanced pack. Lots of big guys is great when you dominate possession, but fatal when you keep giving up 6 again.
Panthers and Eels have a good mix this year. I think we have quite a good balance but it may also be why Waddell and Jetski have been getting picked, give us just a little bit more mobility.
In theory anyway!

 

[wedgetail eagle]

Hmmm...tell me, does my prop look big in this pack?

 

[manlyfan76]

Hmmm...tell me, does my prop look big in this pack?

Ask the hooker.

 

[Fibro Eagle]

The forwards don't look good
Cause our backs don't get good ball and are on the slower side also stands out without tommy and a good hooker making yards up the middle

 

[jbb/james]

We are prop heavy in the traditional sense. The loss of apis defense which hasn't been replaced , while the game speeds up. Less nimble around the ruck.

Not enough tackles out of sirro

we have the best pack if we kick well to march ourselves downtown but if we dont they are too big to play origin pace at our own end.
Keppie and paseka both tackle well for big guys but generally we are back pedalling when they come on if afb and marty start

 

[HoldenV8]

My 2 cents on the pack / bench for the rest of the year.

PR - Addin Fonua-Blake
HK - Danny Levi
PR - Jake Trbojevic
SR - Hermole Olakau'atu
SR - Corey Waddell
LK - Curtis Sironen

Bench - Lachlan Croker, Martin Taupau, Taniela Paseka, Joel Thompson

However, I'm more likely to marry Elle McPherson this afternoon than we're likely to see that line up.

 

[manlyfan76]

8 Kapow
9 Cust
10 Keppie
12 Jake
11 Haumole
13 AFB

14 Levi
15 Paseka
16 Siro
17 Sipley
Schuster in at 5/8


I'm more likely to marry Melania Trump this afternoon.

 

[Damien2812]

I think letting big Marty go after next season would help us with recruiting a good mobile backrower. Maybe shift Jake to backrow next year?

 

[manlyfan76]

I think letting big Marty go after next season would help us with recruiting a good mobile backrower. Maybe shift Jake to backrow next year?

I think Jake could be a good 2nd rower, a ball playing threat, great defender, and follows up breaks.

 

[ricardo]

Our forwards are great. Lay a good platform and plenty of go forward. Do not mess with.

 

[mosto]

The modern lock has become more of a link with the halves (and Des pioneered this at the Dogs). This allows both halves to play wider and play more of a second receiver / five-eighth role. Jake/Radley/Brown/Yeo/Finucane all play a distributor type role. While Jake probably has the best ball skills of that group he is also the least dynamic with his speed and footwork to take the line on to keep them guessing.

With that being the case, I think Schuster would be the ideal 13 going forward. I like Cust and would like to give him more time to develop and having Schuster inside him would potentially hold up the defence giving him more time.

So my ideal 17 next year:

1 Turbo
2 Hoppa
3 Walker (as he's contracted for 2021 then move him on and bring Funa in fulltime)
4 Suli
5 Garrick
6 Cust
7 DCE
8 AFB
9 Fainu
10 Jake
11 Siro
12 Haumole
13 Schuster

14 *Backup hooker (not Levi or Croker)
15 Parker
16 Marty
17 Paseka

Keppie would be first man up, but don't think we need to carry 3 props on the bench when Jake can play 80 if needed.

Parker to become a hybrid edge forward / centre (think Chris Lawrence)

The main issue is hooker. As I said, this is my 'ideal' side, but with Fainu out until at least July, we need a hooker, probably two. I like Levi's effort but he's just not up to it IMO. Maybe look at Peats on a one year deal and look to bring Joey Lussick or Matt Parcell back from the UK to play 14, both who are off contract I believe.

 

[BOZO]

The modern lock has become more of a link with the halves (and Des pioneered this at the Dogs). This allows both halves to play wider and play more of a second receiver / five-eighth role. Jake/Radley/Brown/Yeo/Finucane all play a distributor type role. While Jake probably has the best ball skills of that group he is also the least dynamic with his speed and footwork to take the line on to keep them guessing.

With that being the case, I think Schuster would be the ideal 13 going forward. I like Cust and would like to give him more time to develop and having Schuster inside him would potentially hold up the defence giving him more time.

So my ideal 17 next year:

1 Turbo
2 Hoppa
3 Walker (as he's contracted for 2021 then move him on and bring Funa in fulltime)
4 Suli
5 Garrick
6 Cust
7 DCE
8 AFB
9 Fainu
10 Jake
11 Siro
12 Haumole
13 Schuster

14 *Backup hooker (not Levi or Croker)
15 Parker
16 Marty
17 Paseka

Keppie would be first man up, but don't think we need to carry 3 props on the bench when Jake can play 80 if needed.

Parker to become a hybrid edge forward / centre (think Chris Lawrence)

The main issue is hooker. As I said, this is my 'ideal' side, but with Fainu out until at least July, we need a hooker, probably two. I like Levi's effort but he's just not up to it IMO. Maybe look at Peats on a one year deal and look to bring Joey Lussick or Matt Parcell back from the UK to play 14, both who are off contract I believe.

Funa has shown some ability but has not shown enough to move on a elite centre like Walker