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Gee I miss the old firm of Choc and Gift every time the kick chase is on.

They wanted to smash who ever picked the ball up. The current chasers all hope the returner doesn't run the ball in their direction.

Its close to embarrassing.
 
Dominance comes during the initial impact not the slowing element of a tackle, if the perception is you are struggling to contain a forward pack in the impact you will receive less latitude in slowing it down.

I'm saying this is the reasoning behind the bias counts, i'm not saying it is always a fair perception to have of Manly--- but over the last few years we are not dominating or containing larger mobile packs as good as the past.

I would prefer to change the perception and "somewhat" control our destiny than hope Refs better judge each tackle which is out of our control.

Along with other teams that are better in slowing down the play the ball in less obvious ways with better techniques.

I disagree. The difference between the current/recent team and previous, more successful, years is only that in the past we've had the ability to overcome the biased referee BS.

It has nothing to do with the dominance, perceived or otherwise, of our current pack. The officials orchestrating momentum in this way has been going on for years, it was happening to Manly even when our pack was routinely smashing the opposition in the initial contact.

The bias is very clear when you do exactly as I suggested above - take a close look at each tackle, ours and the opposition's, and do your own '1-2-3' count - the same count the officials supposedly do. It doesn't matter whether the initial contact was dominant or not - if there's a penalty needed to send the momentum a particular way, it'll be given in less than the supposed three seconds.
 
I disagree. The difference between the current/recent team and previous, more successful, years is only that in the past we've had the ability to overcome the biased referee BS.

It has nothing to do with the dominance, perceived or otherwise, of our current pack. The officials orchestrating momentum in this way has been going on for years, it was happening to Manly even when our pack was routinely smashing the opposition in the initial contact.

The bias is very clear when you do exactly as I suggested above - take a close look at each tackle, ours and the opposition's, and do your own '1-2-3' count - the same count the officials supposedly do. It doesn't matter whether the initial contact was dominant or not - if there's a penalty needed to send the momentum a particular way, it'll be given in less than the supposed three seconds.
With Des Manly pushed the limits in slowing the play the ball and it became more obvious as the forward pack started to slow down and age. We got away with a lot more because we could dominate in defence also.

What is this bias you are talking about please explain yourself more clearly?

Some coaches would rather get all the slow the play the ball penalties done and dusted in their "predetermined" allocation of penalties in the first 20mins others might prefer inside the the 10 penalties done and dusted so they can shorten it for the rest of the game.

You work with whatever you encounter blaming the refs and their "bias" is done by every set of fans not in the top 4.

The Roosters have had periods of high penalty counts against them and that still didn't stop them performing---yeah yeah i know we are talking about the time of the game when receiving them but I'm sure they had some bad early periods also without looking into the stats.(in previous years)

Even looking at the top 8 and bottom 8 make up now it clearly shows the stronger teams and weaker teams, if Manly were a strong enough well performing team we would be in the top 8 irrespective of the timing of penalties.
 
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It's
Barrett comes out every week and says "We need to fix our starts" and then we get spanked at the start of the game and have to play catch up all the time. Our attack still looks incredibly clunky, no-one seems to know what their role is.
It's not Barrett out there giving away penalties, missing tackles & putting us under pressure from the start!! Perhaps the players need to take responsibility! Middle period of the games is generally pretty good & it's when the players seem to wake up & compete. If only they could start & finish with more intensity we wouldn't be where we are now! Catch up football is difficult at the best of times no matter how good the team is........if the boys start strong they can beat anyone.
 
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Can play for 10 minutes, can't play for 80
 
It's

It's not Barrett out there giving away penalties, missing tackles & putting us under pressure from the start!! Perhaps the players need to take responsibility! Middle period of the games is generally pretty good & it's when the players seem to wake up & compete. If only they could start & finish with more intensity we wouldn't be where we are now! Catch up football is difficult at the best of times no matter how good the team is........if the boys start strong they can beat anyone.
Sorry but I can't agree. The basic skills and discipline of a team is set by the coaching staff drilling them until it is 2nd nature. Our team appears as though the coach staff have assumed those skills and discipline already exist..........and they simply don't.
 
Sorry but I can't agree. The basic skills and discipline of a team is set by the coaching staff drilling them until it is 2nd nature. Our team appears as though the coach staff have assumed those skills and discipline already exist..........and they simply don't.

But again, why does the discipline seem to not 'exist' very early in games, but later in the match suddenly it's all fixed?!
 
With Des Manly pushed the limits in slowing the play the ball and it became more obvious as the forward pack started to slow down and age. We got away with a lot more because we could dominate in defence also.

What is this bias you are talking about please explain yourself more clearly?

Some coaches would rather get all the slow the play the ball penalties done and dusted in their "predetermined" allocation of penalties in the first 20mins others might prefer inside the the 10 penalties done and dusted so they can shorten it for the rest of the game.

You work with whatever you encounter blaming the refs and their "bias" is done by every set of fans not in the top 4.

The Roosters have had periods of high penalty counts against them and that still didn't stop them performing---yeah yeah i know we are talking about the time of the game when receiving them but I'm sure they had some bad early periods also without looking into the stats.(in previous years)

Even looking at the top 8 and bottom 8 make up now it clearly shows the stronger teams and weaker teams, if Manly were a strong enough well performing team we would be in the top 8 irrespective of the timing of penalties.

Mate, it has nothing to do with the coaches 'preferring' to get the 'allocated' penalties out of the way, or save them until later, or whatever.

Refer to what someone else said earlier about the Brisbane/NQ game - the officials allowed the two teams to sort out who should win, and weren't sticking their beaks in trying to swing the momentum. It was noticeable because it was unusual; most games, every single weekend, there are momentum swings clearly orchestrated by the officials.

I've grown up watching this game my entire life. In over 30 years, I have never seen it as bad as it is now in terms of orchestrated outcomes, right down to being able to pick very, very early on in the season which team is the 'darling' of the league and will be given every leg-up possible to get them to the grand final. It was obvious with the STGI/Bennett fairytale, it was obvious with Souths, it was obvious with JT/NQ, and it's as plain as the nose on your face that the governing body and TV networks are desperate to shore up Western Sydney with a Parramatta premiership in the very near future.

The way this plays out in individual games is the biased refereeing, and it's not just Manly - there are a number of teams that are either considered to be the 'bad guy' and billed that way to opposition fans (like Manly); or those that are perennial also-rans, whose fans are used to accepting mediocrity, therefore helping the favoured teams to easy wins over them won't be a big deal - Wests, Newcastle.

The version of rugby league we see now is orchestrated, pantomime garbage compared to what I grew up with. The irony is that in their focus on 'content' and 'product', the NRL have destroyed it.
 
Sorry but I can't agree. The basic skills and discipline of a team is set by the coaching staff drilling them until it is 2nd nature. Our team appears as though the coach staff have assumed those skills and discipline already exist..........and they simply don't.
If discipline is second nature (drummed into them by the coaching staff) then why have they forgotten about it? I doubt it's the coaches that are making them drop balls, lay on players, miss tackles etc.
 
If discipline is second nature (drummed into them by the coaching staff) then why have they forgotten about it? I doubt it's the coaches that are making them drop balls, lay on players, miss tackles etc.

Dropping balls and missing tackles are a different issue (although fatigue does come into it, when you've been forced to defend set after set after set due to 'discretionary' penalties).

But the supposed 'discipline' problem of not getting off the tackled player fast enough - that's the 'grey area' I'm talking about, that is being used to generate momentum for one team over another.

And it's not that players are 'learning on the run' to get up quicker during the game. If anything, you'd expect the issue to get worse as the game goes on and they become more tired. The players' timing and technique doesn't change. It's the behaviour of the officials that changes throughout the game.

Observe also that the favoured team will receive the 'discretionary' penalties late in a tackle count, when they are trapped in their own half and need a leg-up. Then a second one for good measure if they still can't get a result out of the initial bonus set.

The square-ups to the non-favoured team will be in the opposition half, on tackle 1 or 2, so the gain is limited to 10-15 metres and an extra tackle or two. To be taken after the defensive line is well and truly reset, of course.
 
Mate, it has nothing to do with the coaches 'preferring' to get the 'allocated' penalties out of the way, or save them until later, or whatever.

Refer to what someone else said earlier about the Brisbane/NQ game - the officials allowed the two teams to sort out who should win, and weren't sticking their beaks in trying to swing the momentum. It was noticeable because it was unusual; most games, every single weekend, there are momentum swings clearly orchestrated by the officials.

I've grown up watching this game my entire life. In over 30 years, I have never seen it as bad as it is now in terms of orchestrated outcomes, right down to being able to pick very, very early on in the season which team is the 'darling' of the league and will be given every leg-up possible to get them to the grand final. It was obvious with the STGI/Bennett fairytale, it was obvious with Souths, it was obvious with JT/NQ, and it's as plain as the nose on your face that the governing body and TV networks are desperate to shore up Western Sydney with a Parramatta premiership in the very near future.

The way this plays out in individual games is the biased refereeing, and it's not just Manly - there are a number of teams that are either considered to be the 'bad guy' and billed that way to opposition fans (like Manly); or those that are perennial also-rans, whose fans are used to accepting mediocrity, therefore helping the favoured teams to easy wins over them won't be a big deal - Wests, Newcastle.

The version of rugby league we see now is orchestrated, pantomime garbage compared to what I grew up with. The irony is that in their focus on 'content' and 'product', the NRL have destroyed it.
I'm saying the the coaches can have "some influence" over what type of penalties they are more likely to receive, if you slow the play the ball down constantly and rack up 5-6 straight penalties doing so the chances are the rest of the penalties will be aimed in other areas---it's a no brainer.

I'm not saying the bias flood of penalties has anything to do with the above i was adding these thoughts to the discussion that "some" coaches "try" and dictate what type of penalties they would rather receive at certain times of the game.

The "allocation" comment was in agreement with you, we can all see the flood of penalties both teams will receive, that eventually 70% of the time evens out at the end of the game---but to a degree if you are seen to dominate the early exchanges you will get the first rub of the green especially in slowing down the play the ball.

Yes getting behind and struggling with the early flood of penalties against you doesn't help but you make it out as if there is some large conspiracy against Manly then softening your stance to appear more balanced by throwing a few weak clubs into the mix suffering the same issues.

League will never get the mix of penalties right
1)Low penalty counts and "a good game is all about not seeing the ref" will lead to mob rule.

2)"Too many penalties" creates too much stop start.

3)"Lopsided counts" even when warranted create a "we are not being fairly treated" outcry from fans

4) "Flood of penalties against us" what about the other team getting a few penalties it should be 1 for 1 Ref start making this happen, "it is all about consistency".

5) "We give away a penalty now its the other teams turn" how predictable would that be

Why don't you start putting your money where your mouth is if it is so obvious and stop complaining, you could end up being wealthy from uncovering this big conspiracy that all refs are behind.

Are you also suggesting the teams making the top 4 and GF's since 2014 have been orchestrated and not the best teams in the comp, or are you going down the road of "they have become the best teams due to a massive leg up"

It is the nature of League and trying to appease too many people that has caused the present not some well orchestrated Illuminati conspiracy.

I will say going to the video ref is encouraged for tries to promote KFC, which i think is an Illuminati corporation lol so you might be onto something here.
 
The problem is that the majority of penalties are for 'soft' offences that don't deserve the massive imposition of a touch-finder plus another set of six. For years we've been calling for short-arm penalties as in RU where they tap and go.
Add a five-minute sin bin to the penalty mix to give refs an option for a serial offender, and the impact that penalties have on the outcome of matches would be much fairer.
 
I'm saying the the coaches can have "some influence" over what type of penalties they are more likely to receive, if you slow the play the ball down constantly and rack up 5-6 straight penalties doing so the chances are the rest of the penalties will be aimed in other areas---it's a no brainer.

I'm not saying the bias flood of penalties has anything to do with the above i was adding these thoughts to the discussion that "some" coaches "try" and dictate what type of penalties they would rather receive at certain times of the game.

The "allocation" comment was in agreement with you, we can all see the flood of penalties both teams will receive, that eventually 70% of the time evens out at the end of the game---but to a degree if you are seen to dominate the early exchanges you will get the first rub of the green especially in slowing down the play the ball.

Yes getting behind and struggling with the early flood of penalties against you doesn't help but you make it out as if there is some large conspiracy against Manly then softening your stance to appear more balanced by throwing a few weak clubs into the mix suffering the same issues.

League will never get the mix of penalties right
1)Low penalty counts and "a good game is all about not seeing the ref" will lead to mob rule.

2)"Too many penalties" creates too much stop start.

3)"Lopsided counts" even when warranted create a "we are not being fairly treated" outcry from fans

4) "Flood of penalties against us" what about the other team getting a few penalties it should be 1 for 1 Ref start making this happen, "it is all about consistency".

5) "We give away a penalty now its the other teams turn" how predictable would that be

Why don't you start putting your money where your mouth is if it is so obvious and stop complaining, you could end up being wealthy from uncovering this big conspiracy that all refs are behind.

Are you also suggesting the teams making the top 4 and GF's since 2014 have been orchestrated and not the best teams in the comp, or are you going down the road of "they have become the best teams due to a massive leg up"

It is the nature of League and trying to appease too many people that has caused the present not some well orchestrated Illuminati conspiracy.

I will say going to the video ref is encouraged for tries to promote KFC, which i think is an Illuminati corporation lol so you might be onto something here.

League will never get the penalties right so long as there is a focus on the officials 'controlling' a game, rather than letting the game unfold while ensuring safety and fair play are paramount. That's what a referee or umpire is supposed to do. The modern-day progeny of Hollywood Harrigan have gone far beyond that.

Please try not to be so condescending. There are plenty of people who are as vocal as I am - if not more - about the corruption that is rife in the NRL. It's no longer a sport; it's a multi-billion dollar business and marketing exercise, and there are clear advantages given to certain teams at particular times when it suits an agenda.

There's little monetary value in allowing a team with a relatively small fan base to be continuously successful; you get a marketing and membership boost when they win a premiership, but that boost is multiplied tens of times when it's a 'popular' team that wins. More so when you've allowed a conspiracy narrative to build up for a few years prior, and that team happens to 'represent' a large geographical region. The Parramatta 'fairytale' being pushed at the moment is not just about trying to win back lost ground from GWS and WSW, but also the giant merchandise goldmine that place will be when they win the big one. It was the same with Souths. That is another reason the NRL hierarchy is not keen on back to back premiers - the monetary boost is nowhere near as huge the second time around.

If the emphasis on gambling and the barely-hidden involvement of all manner of shady types with this competition doesn't raise your suspicions, all I can say is you are rather naive.
 
Dropping balls and missing tackles are a different issue (although fatigue does come into it, when you've been forced to defend set after set after set due to 'discretionary' penalties).

But the supposed 'discipline' problem of not getting off the tackled player fast enough - that's the 'grey area' I'm talking about, that is being used to generate momentum for one team over another.

And it's not that players are 'learning on the run' to get up quicker during the game. If anything, you'd expect the issue to get worse as the game goes on and they become more tired. The players' timing and technique doesn't change. It's the behaviour of the officials that changes throughout the game.

Observe also that the favoured team will receive the 'discretionary' penalties late in a tackle count, when they are trapped in their own half and need a leg-up. Then a second one for good measure if they still can't get a result out of the initial bonus set.

The square-ups to the non-favoured team will be in the opposition half, on tackle 1 or 2, so the gain is limited to 10-15 metres and an extra tackle or two. To be taken after the defensive line is well and truly reset, of course.
List all the favoured teams and why they are favoured along with naming the refs who favour teams.

Let me see if i can work it out myself.

Nth Qld was pushed to make the GF after all the bad calls they have had in the past and to sure up Nth Qld, which is a growth area for League along with wanting an all Qld final.

Brisbane to sure up Sth Qld, maintain tv ratings and interest in Origin.

Souths because they are the pride of the League lol and it's been way too long since they last won a GF.

Parra to boost NSW tv ratings and sure up the West from the onslaught of Football and AFL.

Panthers to sure up the West.

I was actually going to name all clubs except Manly because who really needs the North Shore, not a growth area for League but offers a large disposable income demographic who prefer to pay for games on a weekly basis(more expensive) than save money with memberships and 6 game passes lol.
 
League will never get the penalties right so long as there is a focus on the officials 'controlling' a game, rather than letting the game unfold while ensuring safety and fair play are paramount. That's what a referee or umpire is supposed to do. The modern-day progeny of Hollywood Harrigan have gone far beyond that.

Please try not to be so condescending. There are plenty of people who are as vocal as I am - if not more - about the corruption that is rife in the NRL. It's no longer a sport; it's a multi-billion dollar business and marketing exercise, and there are clear advantages given to certain teams at particular times when it suits an agenda.

There's little monetary value in allowing a team with a relatively small fan base to be continuously successful; you get a marketing and membership boost when they win a premiership, but that boost is multiplied tens of times when it's a 'popular' team that wins. More so when you've allowed a conspiracy narrative to build up for a few years prior, and that team happens to 'represent' a large geographical region. The Parramatta 'fairytale' being pushed at the moment is not just about trying to win back lost ground from GWS and WSW, but also the giant merchandise goldmine that place will be when they win the big one. It was the same with Souths. That is another reason the NRL hierarchy is not keen on back to back premiers - the monetary boost is nowhere near as huge the second time around.

If the emphasis on gambling and the barely-hidden involvement of all manner of shady types with this competition doesn't raise your suspicions, all I can say is you are rather naive.
"Mate, it has nothing to do with the coaches 'preferring' to get the 'allocated' penalties out of the way, or save them until later, or whatever." you start with that kind of tone you deserve a condescending based reply.
 
List all the favoured teams and why they are favoured along with naming the refs who favour teams.

Let me see if i can work it out myself.

Nth Qld was pushed to make the GF after all the bad calls they have had in the past and to sure up Nth Qld, which is a growth area for League along with wanting an all Qld final.

Brisbane to sure up Sth Qld, maintain tv ratings and interest in Origin.

Souths because they are the pride of the League lol and it's been way too long since they last won a GF.

Parra to boost NSW tv ratings and sure up the West from the onslaught of Football and AFL.

Panthers to sure up the West.

I was actually going to name all clubs except Manly because who really needs the North Shore, not a growth area for League but offers a large disposable income demographic who prefer to pay for games on a weekly basis(more expensive) than save money with memberships and 6 game passes lol.

It's 'shore up', not sure.

I'm done. You adopt the same tone of know-it-all condescension with anyone who dares to disagree with you, don't pretend it's in response to anything particular I said. That's a longstanding pattern, and precisely why I usually just skim past your posts.
 
League will never get the penalties right so long as there is a focus on the officials 'controlling' a game, rather than letting the game unfold while ensuring safety and fair play are paramount. That's what a referee or umpire is supposed to do. The modern-day progeny of Hollywood Harrigan have gone far beyond that.

Please try not to be so condescending. There are plenty of people who are as vocal as I am - if not more - about the corruption that is rife in the NRL. It's no longer a sport; it's a multi-billion dollar business and marketing exercise, and there are clear advantages given to certain teams at particular times when it suits an agenda.

There's little monetary value in allowing a team with a relatively small fan base to be continuously successful; you get a marketing and membership boost when they win a premiership, but that boost is multiplied tens of times when it's a 'popular' team that wins. More so when you've allowed a conspiracy narrative to build up for a few years prior, and that team happens to 'represent' a large geographical region. The Parramatta 'fairytale' being pushed at the moment is not just about trying to win back lost ground from GWS and WSW, but also the giant merchandise goldmine that place will be when they win the big one. It was the same with Souths. That is another reason the NRL hierarchy is not keen on back to back premiers - the monetary boost is nowhere near as huge the second time around.

If the emphasis on gambling and the barely-hidden involvement of all manner of shady types with this competition doesn't raise your suspicions, all I can say is you are rather naive.
Manly, Melb and Roosters have dominated for most of the last 10-15 years, all small supporter bases with only Melb having a real potential growth element in-line with your theories/conspiracies to a limited degree.

Oh Politis is part of the Roosters and they have close Channel 9 links damn i missed that one.
 

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