Hooker

[Stewbojevic]

Unpopular opinion around these parts but I don’t believe hooker is such a big problem for us.

Have a look at the two grand final teams. Would you swap Croker for Walters or Kenny?

Maybe, maybe not. You certainly wouldn’t get a massive upgrade or revolutionary improvement in our side.

In fact, you could argue that Croker has a better kicking game than both and would match them in defence.

This year’s grand final hookers prove that we can be successful with what we’ve got.

Other positions, culture, and a desire to do the 1%ers are the areas we need to improve in my opinion.

 

[Uk eagle]

If you have a team full of average players then you need a decent hooker (don't know why they're still called that). If you have a team full of good/great players playing to a system then you can probably get away with having an average hooker.
If we have our first choice team playing and everyone is on top of their game then Croker is more than good enough, it's just that at times when we've had cattle missing we look like we need that extra spark in attack which he doesn't provide.

 

[40 nil]

It's true that neither GF team this year has elite dummy halves. However, only one GF winning team in the last 10 years had an average dummy half - the Roosters in 2019

2013 Friend (Roosters)
2014 Koroisau (Rabbitohs)
2015 Granville (Cowboys)
2016 Ennis (Sharks)
2017 Smith (Storm)
2018 Friend (Roosters)
2019 Verrills (Roosters)
2020 Smith (Storm)
2021 Koroisau (Panthers)
2022 Koroisau (Panthers)

 

[Stewbojevic]

It's true that neither GF team this year has elite dummy halves. However, only one GF winning team in the last 10 years had an average dummy half - the Roosters in 2019

2013 Friend (Roosters)
2014 Koroisau (Rabbitohs)
2015 Granville (Cowboys)
2016 Ennis (Sharks)
2017 Smith (Storm)
2018 Friend (Roosters)
2019 Verrills (Roosters)
2020 Smith (Storm)
2021 Koroisau (Panthers)
2022 Koroisau (Panthers)

I’d argue that Granville and Friend are average.

But I see your point… alarming to see Api on that list 3 times. He wanted to stay here!

 

[Tragic Eagle]

We need both Croker and GCKT in the 17. Start Croker and then bring the young fella on after 20 minutes in each half. The change up unsettles defensive lines and fatigue creates opportunities for nippy fast dummy halves. I hope our coach is not stuck in the old mind set of wait until he is old enough. This kid is ready and has been for some time. We need to use him from the beginning of the season not wait until seasons end.

 

[LeonardCohen]

Put Croker in the Broncos or Panthers team and he’d be good enough…but we don’t have Haas, Cardigan, JFH, Yeo, and co. So yeah, hooker is a problem for us.

 

[manly al]

I’d argue that Granville and Friend are average.

But I see your point… alarming to see Api on that list 3 times. He wanted to stay here!

Wouldn 'd contend in their prime[ Granville and Friend ] were average .
Tend to think that they played integral and important roles in their sides premiership successes also .
Friend played some S O O for Q L D , maybe Granville was in the odd squad as well [ well i think so ]

 

[IQofalimabean]

Crokers long kicking game is under utilised at 9 big time. It is stupid for him not to be playing in the halves. One of the best 40/20 specialists only kicked 25 times all season absolute madness.

 

[TheSoaringEagle2023]

Croker is fine as a hooker. He's not an 80 minute hooker though. Shared minutes with a natural 9 has been long overdue. He spends so much time tackling that other teams know by default he won't be running out of dummy half to make yardage. We had the luxury of a world class 9 in Api and the best front row pairing in the comp (AFB / Tapau) for a few years, now we have neither.

 

[BOZO]

He spends so much time tackling that other teams know by default he won't be running out of dummy half to make yardage.

Api is also a defensive workaholic but still has the superior Speed and Skill to make not only yardage but also create try scoring opportunities

 

[BOZO]

Put Croker in the Broncos or Panthers team and he’d be good enough…but we don’t have Haas, Cardigan, JFH, Yeo, and co. So yeah, hooker is a problem for us.

Excellent Analogy feathered friend
I see your perspective
The only way is up with every upgrade to every team
and an upgrade to our number 9 position is obvious for the ones that can see what we see

 

[eaglebuzz]

Both of those sides have a high impact bench hooker who comes on to give spark once the grind phase of the match is ending. I hope GCKT can be that for us.

 

[Scorpio]

Put Croker in the Broncos or Panthers team and he’d be good enough…but we don’t have Haas, Cardigan, JFH, Yeo, and co. So yeah, hooker is a problem for us.

Lachlan Croker offers more than Mitch Kenny does. If Penrith and Manly swapped them today, Penrith would still win the premiership... and the same people on Silvertails who blame Croker for our current predicament will probably be the first to lament that we didn't keep him!

I find that blaming the hooker who is on about $300-400k per season for not turning the other 29 squad players into premiership winners is very backward logic.

 

[Scorpio]

Api is also a defensive workaholic but still has the superior Speed and Skill to make not only yardage but also create try scoring opportunities

For what it's worth

Lachlan Croker - 2023
6 tries
4 try assists
5 line break assists
2 forced drop-outs
15 offloads
858 tackles at 92.6% efficiency
27 average run metres
4 40/20 kicks (equal first in competition)

Contract value according to DT = $300k/season


Api Koroisau - 2023
6 tries
7 try assists
6 line break assists
3 forced drop-outs
12 offloads
719 tackles at 87% efficiency
58 average run metres
0 40/20 kicks

Contract value according to DT = $650k/season

 

[Rocky]

For what it's worth

Lachlan Croker - 2023
6 tries
4 try assists
5 line break assists
2 forced drop-outs
15 offloads
858 tackles at 92.6% efficiency
27 average run metres
4 40/20 kicks (equal first in competition)

Contract value according to DT = $300k/season


Api Koroisau - 2023
6 tries
7 try assists
6 line break assists
3 forced drop-outs
12 offloads
719 tackles at 87% efficiency
58 average run metres
0 40/20 kicks

Contract value according to DT = $650k/season

Looking at those salaries, i'd say both are underpaid.

Croker prob worth 450-500k and Api 800k.

 

[TheSoaringEagle2023]

For what it's worth

Lachlan Croker - 2023
6 tries
4 try assists
5 line break assists
2 forced drop-outs
15 offloads
858 tackles at 92.6% efficiency
27 average run metres
4 40/20 kicks (equal first in competition)

Contract value according to DT = $300k/season


Api Koroisau - 2023
6 tries
7 try assists
6 line break assists
3 forced drop-outs
12 offloads
719 tackles at 87% efficiency
58 average run metres
0 40/20 kicks

Contract value according to DT = $650k/season

Api is a far better hooker than Croker. don't kid yourself.
Did you include the stat where Api has won 3 premierships at 2 different clubs.
and the difference in pay means Api has more of a leadership role in the team.
You will also find that difference in pay is due to clubs wanting Api. If Croker wanted to test the market, how many other teams would want to sign him.
Absolutely ridiculous comparison based on 1 season and not over a career span.

 

[eaglebuzz]

For what it's worth

Lachlan Croker - 2023
6 tries
4 try assists
5 line break assists
2 forced drop-outs
15 offloads
858 tackles at 92.6% efficiency
27 average run metres
4 40/20 kicks (equal first in competition)

Contract value according to DT = $300k/season


Api Koroisau - 2023
6 tries
7 try assists
6 line break assists
3 forced drop-outs
12 offloads
719 tackles at 87% efficiency
58 average run metres
0 40/20 kicks

Contract value according to DT = $650k/season

If there was a "quality of service from dummy half" stat that would tell a much richer story.

 

[TheSoaringEagle2023]

If there was a "quality of service from dummy half" stat that would tell a much richer story.

Add runs from dummy half as well. See what I did there.

 

[eagleron]

If you have a team full of average players then you need a decent hooker (don't know why they're still called that). If you have a team full of good/great players playing to a system then you can probably get away with having an average hooker.
If we have our first choice team playing and everyone is on top of their game then Croker is more than good enough, it's just that at times when we've had cattle missing we look like we need that extra spark in attack which he doesn't provide.

Yes they should be referred to as dummy halves, no such thing as a Hooker in the modern game

 

[LeonardCohen]

Lachlan Croker offers more than Mitch Kenny does. If Penrith and Manly swapped them today, Penrith would still win the premiership... and the same people on Silvertails who blame Croker for our current predicament will probably be the first to lament that we didn't keep him!

I find that blaming the hooker who is on about $300-400k per season for not turning the other 29 squad players into premiership winners is very backward logic.

It’s not logic I’ve used?

Who suggested as much?

I’m suggesting that Penrith and Brisbane have a good enough squad to carry an average 9. We don’t. So a better 9 would be nice. Not suggesting Croker is responsible for the rest of the squad or that he needs to turn us into a premiership force…