Garrick general news thread

[LeonardCohen]

We all see different things and I see exactly what the stats see
I see Ruben Garrick the Great Manly Centre of 2024
12 games
Tackle Efficiency 86.6 %
Tackle breaks 29
Line breaks 10
Tries 7
Try Assists 2

I see that as well but there are two sides to the game of RL and Garrick is costing us in defence. Tackle efficiency does not indicate the poor reads and some of the 13% missed are directly leading to points.

I liked the Garrick to centre idea initially and think he has done great things for our attack…defence on the other hand 😞

 

[LeonardCohen]

He’s in the centres because as part of his extension there’s a clause saying he gets to play in the centres it’s not rocket science

Not really. He resigned before 2023 and played all but one game at centre last year. No coach would put a player before themselves because of a clause in their contract. Flanno let Lomax walk because what the coach wants the coach gets, even if a great player is going to get their nose out of joint and seek a release.

Seibs obviously thinks Garrick’s efforts at centre are acceptable right now. He must like what he is seeing in attack and is prepared to give Garrick time to grow into the role in defence. Not to mention we dedicated an entire preseason to the project.

When Garrick rejected the Knights, he said he wanted a shot at centre, but he was never given a rubber stamp.

 

[BOZO]

I see that as well but there are two sides to the game of RL and Garrick is costing us in defence. Tackle efficiency does not indicate the poor reads and some of the 13% missed are directly leading to points.

I liked the Garrick to centre idea initially and think he has done great things for our attack…defence on the other hand 😞

The factor that you did not take into account is that Garricks 86.6 % tackle efficiency also includes try saving tackles .

The final factor you also did not take into account before you rate how poor Garricks defensive is The Premiership Winning Stephen Chrichton has a lower tackle efficiency than Garrick at 81.4 %

The Fact of the matter and the end of this theory that Garrick is a poor defender
Garirck 86.6 tackle efficiency
Stephen Chrichton 81.4 tackle efficiency

​

 

[Terry Zarsoff]

This seems to be true. No coach in his right mind would continue with Garrick at centre.

What does the club do? We can’t keep crippling ourselves our season is hanging on by a thread.

I believe he prefers the centres, but I also think it’s a furphy that he will only play there. Someone mentioned that elsewhere.

 

[Sheikheagle]

He’s in the centres because as part of his extension there’s a clause saying he gets to play in the centres it’s not rocket science

I don’t think there is a clause however he is being paid centre money.

 

[Sheikheagle]

Not really. He resigned before 2023 and played all but one game at centre last year. No coach would put a player before themselves because of a clause in their contract. Flanno let Lomax walk because what the coach wants the coach gets, even if a great player is going to get their nose out of joint and seek a release.

Seibs obviously thinks Garrick’s efforts at centre are acceptable right now. He must like what he is seeing in attack and is prepared to give Garrick time to grow into the role in defence. Not to mention we dedicated an entire preseason to the project.

When Garrick rejected the Knights, he said he wanted a shot at centre, but he was never given a rubber stamp.

From memory shoulders Matai was a poor defender early on and des stuck with him. Look how that paid off.

 

[double hoops]

I really don't know if Reubs is a poor defender.

I think we had to try his speed at centre early on in the year. There's different views on if he's working out or if he's not.

But to try and understand what these stats mean.

What is a tackle efficiency? Is it as simple as tackles made vs missed?

Any criticism of Reubs would more be about bad defensive reads but what I have no idea about, does tackle efficiency or any other stat
for that matter, cover that?

One on the weekend for example, I think there was one where Reubs just turned a shoulder inwards, selected a player, but no tackle to make, ball gets passed on or that player might have been cut out. Reubs inwards shoulder directly impacts what Saab does who also comes in. If Saab is the closest defender and the opposition winger runs past him.

Is the only missed tackle stat then against Saab?

Same interest for DCE at times.

Most overlaps are poor counting of numbers or bad reads on the inside.

But is there a stat anywhere that tells me that?

 

[HK_Eagle]

I like the idea of Talau in the centres with Saab outside him, and Koula and Garrick on the other side.

Talau is a big body and showed what he can do defensively against Staggs a couple of weeks back. Sure, we might not have Garrick’s speed and swerve to put Saab away but our team is doing a lot of defending due to an ability to win the yardage battle so goal line defence is crucial. The shootout approach is not winning us games.

Are you convinced on Koula in centres? And if not, where do you see his best position?

 

[HK_Eagle]

The factor that you did not take into account is that Garricks 86.6 % tackle efficiency also includes try saving tackles .

I’m sorry… WHAT? 😳

Though… I guess if he makes a tackle anywhere on the field he has potentially not allowed a try that play 🤔

 

[LeonardCohen]

The factor that you did not take into account is that Garricks 86.6 % tackle efficiency also includes try saving tackles .

The final factor you also did not take into account before you rate how poor Garricks defensive is The Premiership Winning Stephen Chrichton has a lower tackle efficiency than Garrick at 81.4 %

The Fact of the matter and the end of this theory that Garrick is a poor defender
Garirck 86.6 tackle efficiency
Stephen Chrichton 81.4 tackle efficiency

​

I don’t need a tackle efficiency statistic to tell me that Crichton is a much better defensive centre than Garrick. If anything, the fact that statistics suggest otherwise, has actually brought your argument undone. The statistic is redundant because it doesn’t provide an accurate representation.

Anyway, it’s all good, you love him at centre and I love him in attack at centre but think he is struggling in defence; we move on.

 

[LeonardCohen]

Are you convinced on Koula in centres? And if not, where do you see his best position?

Yeah I think he is a weapon. I just don’t think we’ve been able to unlock him because we do not generate enough ruck speed. If he was able to consistently get good ball against stretched defensive lines, I think he’d torch oppositions. Unfortunately, he gets average ball most games. His speed really helps him cover opposition shifts comfortably, so that edge is quite sound in defence.

I don’t love him at fullback. He is OK and can be dangerous with the speed but I think he plays too sideways and is not a natural ball player so I see him as limited in that position.

 

[HK_Eagle]

Yeah I think he is a weapon. I just don’t think we’ve been able to unlock him because we do not generate enough ruck speed. If he was able to consistently get good ball against stretched defensive lines, I think he’d torch oppositions. Unfortunately, he gets average ball most games. His speed really helps him cover opposition shifts comfortably, so that edge is quite sound in defence.

I don’t love him at fullback. He is OK and can be dangerous with the speed but I think he plays too sideways and is not a natural ball player so I see him as limited in that position.

Yes, fair points. It would be interesting to see what he could do in the Storm set up, for example.

 

[joshcooper123]

I think most people will agree that garrick does play his best footy on the wing, but when turbo was injured and he played fullback he showed he has the speed, power game and some passing attributes that can be useful in the centres. I see him a similar type of player to Nick Meaney, similar build and attributes, but the difference is Meaney makes a lot better defensive decisions compared to Garrick.

But unfortunately Seibs made a statement around a month ago stating that garrick and koula are the long term centres at the club and in the press conference yesterday he said he really likes how the combination of how koula and talau are going.
So don't think Seibs will change it even though he should

 

[Kiwi Eagle]

From memory shoulders Matai was a poor defender early on and des stuck with him. Look how that paid off.

Go back to his first couple of seasons and read topics on here about him, absolutely terrible player that couldn’t defend and should have never been near first grade

 

[Bearfax]

What impresses me about Garrick, is his professionalism. He usually tends to make the right decisions and seems to have a calm manner in dealing with issues on the field. I know sometimes he seems to be a little shaky in defense, but as Bozo has rightly pointed out, his defense stats suggest he's one of the better centre defenders. Talau's defense is only 72%, Turbo 70% young Hopa at this stage 67% and Koula 81%. So Garrick's 86.6% looks pretty decent. Mind you wingers and full backs always rate low in tackle efficiency given their frequent exposure to open field runners. However Bozo's point is quite valid and again points out the elements of my regular sermon that perception is never as accurate as stats. If someone is identified as having a fault, you will tend to look for it, thus reinforcing the belief. Stats often suggest otherwise.

Mind you I prefer Garrick on the wing and Talau at centre but that is more personal preference more based on the complete game of the respective players.

 

[Terry Zarsoff]

….But unfortunately Seibs made a statement around a month ago stating that garrick and koula are the long term centres at the club and in the press conference yesterday he said he really likes how the combination of how koula and talau are going.
So don't think Seibs will change it even though he should.

They are the ‘long term’ centres whilst Seibold is the coach.

Depending on results this year, we might have a new coach next year. Or at best/worst (depending on your perspective), Seibold is on notice to lift his approach, if he wants an extension beyond 2025.

 

[Damien2812]

If Garrick continues in the centres than Seibold will be gone as head coach in the near future. The coach needs to make the tough decision and put Garrick back to the wing and Talau back to centre.

 

[LeonardCohen]

What impresses me about Garrick, is his professionalism. He usually tends to make the right decisions and seems to have a calm manner in dealing with issues on the field. I know sometimes he seems to be a little shaky in defense, but as Bozo has rightly pointed out, his defense stats suggest he's one of the better centre defenders. Talau's defense is only 72%, Turbo 70% young Hopa at this stage 67% and Koula 81%. So Garrick's 86.6% looks pretty decent. Mind you wingers and full backs always rate low in tackle efficiency given their frequent exposure to open field runners. However Bozo's point is quite valid and again points out the elements of my regular sermon that perception is never as accurate as stats. If someone is identified as having a fault, you will tend to look for it, thus reinforcing the belief. Stats often suggest otherwise.

Mind you I prefer Garrick on the wing and Talau at centre but that is more personal preference more based on the complete game of the respective players.

Perception is often more accurate than stats. Your sermon is misguided. Are you prepared to say that basically the entire RL community has their eyes painted on in thinking that State of Origin centre Crichton is an inferior defensive centre to Ruben Garrick, based on tackle efficiency statistics? Answer yes or no without a riddle please.

 

[HK_Eagle]

What impresses me about Garrick, is his professionalism. He usually tends to make the right decisions and seems to have a calm manner in dealing with issues on the field. I know sometimes he seems to be a little shaky in defense, but as Bozo has rightly pointed out, his defense stats suggest he's one of the better centre defenders. Talau's defense is only 72%, Turbo 70% young Hopa at this stage 67% and Koula 81%. So Garrick's 86.6% looks pretty decent. Mind you wingers and full backs always rate low in tackle efficiency given their frequent exposure to open field runners. However Bozo's point is quite valid and again points out the elements of my regular sermon that perception is never as accurate as stats. If someone is identified as having a fault, you will tend to look for it, thus reinforcing the belief. Stats often suggest otherwise.

Mind you I prefer Garrick on the wing and Talau at centre but that is more personal preference more based on the complete game of the respective players.

Garrick’s telling defensive stat looked great as he dropped off To’o for two of his tries.

 

[Disco]

Garrick’s telling defensive stat looked great as he dropped off To’o for two of his tries.

Are you talking the first and second tries?

To be honest I think it is simplistic and harsh to attribute those last ditch efforts when To'o is in space for the reason the tries were scored.

To'o scores minimum 9 out of 10 in those situations.

The damage is done earlier.

If you look at the first try (image below), you can see DCE has been pulled in by the edge backrower. This creates a 3 on 2 and it is effectively game over.

Garrick and Saab have to come in and Garrick actually does well to then pivot and get to To'o however To'o is to good in space a couple of metres out.

Its lazy to blame Garrick or Saab there IMO.