foran

[Rodo]

Trying to bring this thread back on topic a little....

I think that a lot of Foran's improvement this year has got to do with Andrew Johns working with Foran and DCE at training. He's come on leaps and bounds in the past 6 weeks.

 

[Masked Eagle]

Maybe Joey has had something to do with although you can't be absolutely certain because he's also been a regular with a lot of other halves in the competition who haven't been doing so well.

 

[Technical Coach]

The Johns brothers were masters at the short ball and this is how they attacked mostly. Both Matty and Andrew worked fairly close in together near the ruck and often played side by side rather than either side of the ruck as was common then.

You make up a lot of dribble TC. Watch a couple of 90's games again, it took forever for them to get the ball out wide because they used to attack up the middle and Ainscough used to come in off his wing and attack not too far out from the posts.

Manly strangled any long passing game anyway because of the umbrella style defense.

Maybe you should watch the 90's games again in particular when the Johns Brothers first started out---many long passing switch plays were over-used----yes they did use short balls but they were very rarely flat at the line passes that committed the defence to make bad decisions.

They were good at running angles with forwards (Muir) working over the opposition forwards before spreading the ball but there ball playing in the early days was too deep and too long.

Matty Johns over-used under plays showing his limited ball playing talent----great footballing brain but an over-rated 5/8.

I dont care what peoples opinions are of me but when you start bringing up pathetic come back lines involving family members when you have no idea who i am its those posters that need to be addressed.

Susan your a lot older than me and no i dont ever recall having a 70's hairstyle but i'll call my Mother just in case---why do i need to call she is right here with me helping knit the new away jersey retro style.

I have my opinions so be it--- i dont knock others without making a case as to why i disagree unlike others.

Lets see now Susan----Melbourne will struggle---nope( i do agree they are just making up the numbers in the 8 though)

Foran lacks ball skills and should be lock---that's looking good also.

Still respect your views Susan but you started the personal under-handed comments not me.

 

[eagles2win]

The Johns brothers were masters at the short ball and this is how they attacked mostly. Both Matty and Andrew worked fairly close in together near the ruck and often played side by side rather than either side of the ruck as was common then.

You make up a lot of dribble TC. Watch a couple of 90's games again, it took forever for them to get the ball out wide because they used to attack up the middle and Ainscough used to come in off his wing and attack not too far out from the posts.

Manly strangled any long passing game anyway because of the umbrella style defense.

Maybe you should watch the 90's games again in particular when the Johns Brothers first started out---many long passing switch plays were over-used----yes they did use short balls but they were very rarely flat at the line passes that committed the defence to make bad decisions.

They were good at running angles with forwards (Muir) working over the opposition forwards before spreading the ball but there ball playing in the early days was too deep and too long.

Matty Johns over-used under plays showing his limited ball playing talent----great footballing brain but an over-rated 5/8.

I dont care what peoples opinions are of me but when you start bringing up pathetic come back lines involving family members when you have no idea who i am its those posters that need to be addressed.

Susan your a lot older than me and no i dont ever recall having a 70's hairstyle but i'll call my Mother just in case---why do i need to call she is right here with me helping knit the new away jersey retro style.

I have my opinions so be it--- i dont knock others without making a case as to why i disagree unlike others.

Lets see now Susan----Melbourne will struggle---nope( i do agree they are just making up the numbers in the 8 though)

Foran lacks ball skills and should be lock---that's looking good also.

Still respect your views Susan but you started the personal under-handed comments not me.

You want weird check this **** out:

Keiron Foran

Don Moseley

 

[codewana]

The added strike power of Carney will allow the Roosters to get some wins purely on out-scoring teams

There's another way to win?!?!?!

 

[Technical Coach]

Yeah you got me there Codewana----just to make it clear i'm talking about high scoring games for example 30-20 etc just in case my poor grammar,limited vocabulary and my habit of short replies does not get my point across.......

I prefer to get all my points out in one hit instead of typing up a million short replies to boost my message count.

 

[codewana]

I knew what you meant - had to call you on it though.

*consider this a boost to my message count*

 

[susan]

Another ****house performance from Thurston last night.His kicking,passing and running were disgraceful.

It was a shame really as it was a great game with both sides completing at 85%.

---

canberra 20 melbourne 12

melbourne lose against warriors and canberra at home in a row to go 7 and 3 and have played 7 out of 10 at home thus far with a 30 point flogging by the cowboys in there and falling in against a bronco side with 5 internationals out.

starting to "struggle" maybe not,but they are well on the way.i think i mentioned about 10 times their cosy initial home run and lack of depth will see them struggle at the back end.we'll just see won't we.

as for thurston your rubbish is simply worthless.analyse tonights game for me-will be interested in your thoughts.

 

[Technical Coach]

Like i stated before Susan i agree Melbourne are just making the numbers in the 8---dont rate their forward pack and depth all over the park. If the main trio stay injury free they will get the 50/50 win ratio they need to make the 8 easily.

I fully agree the home ground games are helping their cause and Origin wont help but it appeared you wrote them off as being competitive in your preseason analysis. I'm purley saying the main three attackers and one of the best coaches in the game in relation to structures will always make them competitive and would never write them off.

I'm guessing everyone will bring up the "Bellamy was crap in Origin" line---Origin is about players playing with passion and maintaining intensity not about a coach who can drill in structures that will keep a team competitive throughout the NRL season.Are you going to tell me Meninga will be a great NRL coach now......

Will watch the Cowboys game if the motivation to be overly arrogant and run rings around your analysis fuels the desire to do so---seems to not take much these days so heres hoping.

I never stated Thurston was a useless player----i stated "he could play" but is over-rated and will not win an NRL G/F on the back of his talents.

I was never a huge fan of Orford more in relation to bad habits not ironed out earlier in his career---had the potential to be a lot better than he showed. If age was not a consideration and i had the choice of both players to "build" a competitive consistent "NRL" team that is best suited to building a structure around i would choose Orford.

 

[Kiwi Eagle]

Hahaha

 

[Chip and Chase]

Orford > Thurston. That'll do me.

 

[Technical Coach]

How could anyone not see Foran had ball playing ability---he showed more than enough glimpses last year with double pumps, going to the line and holding the ball back etc. The more he runs at defensive lines going backwards the more at the line he can play----allowing flat at the line plays with hole runners hitting the edges.

If he is not allowed or encouraged to develop his right side plays he will end up a ball playing lock---big waste if it happens.

---

Foran reminds me a little of Brad Fittler in his latter stages of his career playing at the line and passing flat. I recall a game at Brookie in 96 or 97 when the Roosters were killing our right edge defence targeting Tooves and Terry Hill--- some beautiful decoys and hole running with Fittler orchestrating the plays off the smarts of Gould.(Manly came back from 18 or 24 points down to win on a Friday night)

---

Travis Burns also showed glimpses in his first year. Foran did show those things at times in 09 but it looked forced and like he was running the training drills on the field. I go by my statement, but his improvement this year as a playmaker is UNPRECEDENTED!!!!!!

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First rule with 5/8's---if young and have developed the "safe attacking habit" of stepping back inside too often without showing any potential of developing a ball playing outside game do not sign them for long periods.

More clubs on the way for Travis until he packs a few kg's and ends up a lock---never rated him but a tough player.

---

Orford > Thurston. That'll do me.

That's not what i'm saying Chip and you know it--- certain types of players are best suited for long NRL seasons others may have more talent but are not suited at building a structure around or guiding the team around the park.

---

In many respects i rated Monas above Orford in relation to ball playing skills and kicking even toughness just lacked pace off the mark and breaking the line(he did show it occasionally i admit)----once Orford lost this part of his game also he was worthless.

My personal opinion i'm not totally convinced purchasing Orford was the main reason we went from the bottom of the 8 to the top 4---i think the development and maturity of our young playing group was a major factor and this helped the argument that Orford was the reason but in the end we won a G/F so who am i to argue.(Plus having 2 halves increased depth when one was injured helping win a few games throughout the season)

I do recall there was a period when Monas slipped back into half while Orford was injured and our win ratio went up then Orford came back and we started to struggle again.

In the end being a fence sitter and looking at "what ifs" does not make a good coach---Dessie made the choice we won a G/F shortly after and thats all that counts but i still dont think it was as simple as that.

---

Foran running at the line is reminding more and more of Thurston rather than Fittler. He forces the defence to make decisions on every play. And even when the defence gets it right, Foran normally has them running backwards.

And who was it that complained Dessie was not doing enough to help Foran develop as a playmaker?

I dont think Dessie is the type of coach that develops "ball players" skills and makes them a better attacker---A.Johns is more likely to be influencing the all round options in his game and choosing the right times to inject himself into the action.

What i'm liking is the scrum play where Foran comes from the short side to the open side making the extra man and actually passing left to right even if its just a deep 2nd man play.

I dont mind coaches slowly developing young players and keeping it simple but he had all last season to develop one side of his game.

This season its time to start to develop both sides of his game but i guess easing DCE in also may have forced Dessie to keep it simple for a longer period and maybe the 2nd half of the season we will see more.

At the moment the improvements have been one sided doing the same things as last year but more effective(playing at the line better) plus an improved kicking game i just dont want Foran to be seen as a left edge player for the rest of his career.

 

[susan]

as I said in a previous post

Simplicity is often genius,complication is always the first resort of a fool.

 

[Technical Coach]

Having creative all round options does not mean it has to be overly complicated---(for starters replicate the same moves on both sides of the ground with both players)

Lack of variety will deliver frustration in spades forcing more risky offloads and a greater defensive load from all the errors that are induced.

Sticking with what works for too long will end up leaving you chasing the pack you need to keep evolving.

Manly fell behind in 09 in relation to the change of interpretation of what you could get away with in slowing the play the ball----every other club had a few trial games under the new interpretation while we were in England getting ready for the world club challenge.

Still to this day we are behind the pack in this regard and getting pinned way too often but its slowly getting better.