Foran v forward strength

[Ryan]

Mate with all due respect, you've been the one ripping into Snake , Foz , Choc ect non stop for weeks.

I get that, but as I stated above, I heard from the horses mouth, that as Ice T says, **** aint like that". Also, lifes too short, and I've come to the realisation, that what will be, will be.

If Foran goes, maybe we throw a lifeline to Carney, or Norman or someone. If Matai goes, Brett Morris. Maybe we improve, maybe we don't. Forget those suggestions if you disagree with them, put in other players.

Do I think these guys could handle the media much better? Yes. But at the same time, they are kids, earning lots of money and are Gen Y, so have little loyalty and passion for the brand, like the Steve Menzies, Darren Lockyer type of era players.

As a season ticket holder, all I want is to watch players who want to play for us, and have fun, and that's what I think our team are lacking. We've gone from a team where Heath Le'Strange and Brett Stewart play paper, rock, scissors on the field, to a team that appears they hate each other.

If I'm honest, I feel exactly the same way about that as I have always done, but what's the point in complaining about it anymore? What will be, will be. At least I have faith that Warwick, Toovey and Perry will de-weed the bad seeds. They need to get a verbal commitment from the players who remain.

We need that passion back again. A player or two who play for the club and the fans. Can't remember the last time a player kissed our emblem like a few of The Rabbits kids did last night after they scored.

That's why I love watching Jesse Sene-Lefao play. Kid just loves it. Completely loves it. It's why Wolfman was so magnetic when he burst onto the scene. Choc looks and is playing unhappy. Most of the playing group are. They look beaten. That's not something that is synonimous with this club of ours over the past decade.

I look forward to the rebuild. There's no point death riding the players. Their performance on the field is what will dictate their quality. We may lose 6 of our last 8 games of this season. If other teams want to pay millions and millions for that, good luck to them.

Lastly, why make a post about a poster? We are debating footy. Is it to get likes? Be better than that. It's Rocker mentality. Play the ball rather than the man. Move on. Show some class mate. Rise above that petty BS. If you do get likes, it proves my point.

 

[the mauler]

I get that, but as I stated above, I heard from the horses mouth, that as Ice T says, ... aint like that". Also, lifes too short, and I've come to the realisation, that what will be, will be.

If Foran goes, maybe we throw a lifeline to Carney, or Norman or someone. If Matai goes, Brett Morris. Maybe we improve, maybe we don't. Forget those suggestions if you disagree with them, put in other players.

Do I think these guys could handle the media much better? Yes. But at the same time, they are kids, earning lots of money and are Gen Y, so have little loyalty and passion for the brand, like the Steve Menzies, Darren Lockyer type of era players.

As a season ticket holder, all I want is to watch players who want to play for us, and have fun, and that's what I think our team are lacking. We've gone from a team where Heath Le'Strange and Brett Stewart play paper, rock, scissors on the field, to a team that appears they hate each other.

If I'm honest, I feel exactly the same way about that as I have always done, but what's the point in complaining about it anymore? What will be, will be. At least I have faith that Warwick, Toovey and Perry will de-weed the bad seeds. They need to get a verbal commitment from the players who remain.

We need that passion back again. A player or two who play for the club and the fans. Can't remember the last time a player kissed our emblem like a few of The Rabbits kids did last night after they scored.

That's why I love watching Jesse Sene-Lefao play. Kid just loves it. Completely loves it. It's why Wolfman was so magnetic when he burst onto the scene. Choc looks and is playing unhappy. Most of the playing group are. They look beaten. That's not something that is synonimous with this club of ours over the past decade.

I look forward to the rebuild. There's no point death riding the players. Their performance on the field is what will dictate their quality. We may lose 6 of our last 8 games of this season. If other teams want to pay millions and millions for that, good luck to them.

Lastly, why make a post about a poster? We are debating footy. Is it to get likes? Be better than that. It's Rocker mentality. Play the ball rather than the man. Move on. Show some class mate. Rise above that petty BS. If you do get likes, it proves my point.

Show some class?? Lol...That's a bit rich coming from you champ.
You've constantly attacked players and posters on here. You should take a bit of your own advice and rise above all the BS.

 

[Wombat Legacy]

Let's not forget that the top teams have really done their homework on Manly. Yes our forwards are smallish and we do not have the experience there anymore, but they are all having a dip.
Souths basically went 18-0 up through targeting Tafua and picking out lapses in defence out wide. Watch the first 20 minutes and tell me I am wrong.
If Tafua cannot sort these deficiencies out in his game, his career will be over at NRL level. Even Hiku looked all over the shop last night. They all try hard, but Robbo and Wolfie they are not.
Whilst I believe there are factions and players are unhappy, that is not the underlying problem. Passion is down and there seems to be less enthusiasm in the contest from some.
Foran to me looks like he needs some new challenges. I think he is looking at our team and thinking that there is not a lot of modification & adaption in our game. I really think he is the future captain should he stay, but as mentioned above, he is not looking overjoyed at the moment.
Can only hope we turn things around next week

 

[Ryan]

Show some class?? Lol...That's a bit rich coming from you champ.
You've constantly attacked players and posters on here. You should take a bit of your own advice and rise above all the BS.

Whatever, I won't get into a slanging match with you. I left that in the playground 20 years ago. Go for your life champion, but keep trying as hard as you can. I'm here to discuss footy, not me, nor you.

Rise above it mate. Care to accept or refute my actual post about THE TEAM, rather than obsessing with me? I mean, it's great you think about ME in a post about footy (really flattering and all), but I'm not that interesting.

 

[Mal Cochrane]

Where has Ryan gone? Recent posts have been level headed and making some bloody good sense the last 48 hours!

Just having some fun Ryan

 

[Moops]

The way I see it is like this:

Last night, we were without two very good ball playing, wide running backrowers, who tend to make metres pretty quickly off the mark, and often have the defensive line moving backwards due to this.

Secondly, our three best defenders (Buhrer, Ballin & Stewart) were all out at the very same time. Take any teams 3 best defenders, their lock, hooker and utility player out, and most teams would struggle.

Third, while Taufua is young, and will get over this slump (remember Anthony Minichello also went through this at one point in his career), he is being focused, and targeted, and is costing us.

I think it's really premature to blame either Kieran or Daly in all of this. They are playing behind a very bland, slow and monotonous forward pack. That's not to say at full strength they are like that, because Ballin, Fa'aoso, Buhrer & Glenn Stewart makes that same forward pack multi faceted.

I'm not making excuses, because we have been pretty poor for two months. But I think the underlying issues are being blown out of proportion. Why do I say that? Because Mark Bryant, who is an ex-player, but still very, very active with our club told me so himself, and I'm sure he wouldn't mind me saying. He straight up told me Choc said to him, he is disappointed that people are blaming him for so many thing that just aren't true, and the club is much tighter than all of this Telegraph garbage. (He actually got Matt Ballin to get me a signed jersey )

Last night The Rabbits were on fire. They have spent very craftily, and are going to be right there at the end. They are big, mobile, unbroken and are all pulling in the same direction. This is there year in my opinion. I couldn't think of any teams that would have rolled them last night. That, and the NRL has done everything in their power to accomodate them last night.

I think we are looking for things to blame here. Personally, while very upset at our form of late, we have to remember how many dollars are sitting on the sidelines, a few players are down on form, and the teams with the bigger, more mobile, and with lots of mongrel in them are doing well, and we don't have that at the moment.

We also have to remember, if our team came 14th this year, we woldn't be upset at players leaving. We are upset, because through it all, we came equal 1st. Not many teams get that honor. If players leave, maybe it's for the better, and Warwick, who has had a lot of things go his way over the last decade, will transition our team, by bringing in more mobile, aggressive, diverse players like JWH, Lussick & others that we have lost, but need.

Lastly, it is very unlikely teams have the space for the Watmough's 450k, Foran's asking price and the DCE's. Ok, maybe a bottom dweller like The Titans or Raiders, but then, who cares. It's going to be fun watching us go through another rebuild. That's when I made the best friends amongst you last time.

Maybe we need to bottom out and miss the finals for a few years. The club has a successful tradition, so it shouldn't take too long to rebuild things.

 

[Ryan]

Nah mate, we can re-build and still compete. This club has far too much pride to re-build as a bottom dweller, I'll tell you that.

 

[Mavin]

Nah mate, we can re-build and still compete. This club has far too much pride to re-build as a bottom dweller, I'll tell you that.

I actually agree with Ryan it at the moment is all doom and gloom but I'm excited for the future and looking forward to what players are in it with us for the long haul. This is a test for the players like DCE and FOZ who have only known success as first graders are they up for the fight? or do they want the door? I hope they both are in it for the long haul. Either way I trust Toovey and Dave Warwick to pull the right reigns.

 

[pjayz]

hey Playz I agree he is playing ok but his calling card is the mongrel factor and his reputation is built on ball playing tough at the line and big defence.in the last couple of months his X factor that sets him apart is not there.He I has been going no better or no worse than others in a struggling team but to command the huge dollars he needs to lift his intensity.He is not a supremely gifted player like DCE but his courage and toughness is what sets him apart.He is simply not a happy camper.Which way the club goes on this DCE /Foranissue will be a defining factor for us.

I know many will say DCE has been below par as well (and he has) but halves are as rare as hens teeth and players with his brilliance( as opposed to Forans toughness and desire) and in my opinion he has to be the priority if we need to make a choice.Lets hope it doesn't come to that.Put it this way,Choc leaving will help his mindset,I can tell u that.

Yes I hope it doesn't come to that, because I really rate him, but I agree that top #7's are few and far between. If Choc and Steve do leave, maybe it ends there.

 

[Ryan]

Nah mate, we can re-build and still compete. This club has far too much pride to re-build as a bottom dweller, I'll tell you that.

I actually agree with Ryan it at the moment is all doom and gloom but I'm excited for the future and looking forward to what players are in it with us for the long haul. This is a test for the players like DCE and FOZ who have only known success as first graders are they up for the fight? or do they want the door? I hope they both are in it for the long haul. Either way I trust Toovey and Dave Warwick to pull the right reigns.

Exactly mate. This is a test of our character, and character is something Manly Sea Eagles have in abundance, I tell you what.

 

[Technical Coach]

Firstly the bunnies were always going to win last night but 40 nil after 60 may be the best thing to happen to our club.We are not used to this and let's hope it provokes a response.Those blaming Ballin and Buhrer missing haven't been watching the last 6 weeks.Without them we were always going to lose but to put it bluntly Manly Warringah footballs teams do not succumb like that.Other factors are in play.The reality is 10 years of success in the salary cap era is sensational and it is hats off to everyone involved.This day was always coming and the key is to make the right moves.

A couple are obvious but the tricky area is around the halves.The obvious ones will happen now...Choc will go,Stevie should be allowed to leave.Both are club legends and for different reasons don't want to be here.Let them go.They deserve respect.Snake will stay simply because we will pay him almost double what other clubs will given his injuries and he is contracted till 2016.Injuries aside Bullet has a lot give our club over the next 3 years.

Now the hard bit.I have been a proponent of keep the halves and build around them like the Storms big three.The problem with that is that Kieran Foran,despite what all the fans want to believe,is looking to leave and in my opinion will be elsewhere in 2016.Only my opinion.If you want a single illustration of our problems at the moment then look at the way he is playing.The mongrel is gone and 2/3 of Kieran's paycheck is due to his incredible desire and toughness.He is playing ok but that fierceness that is his X factor is for the moment gone.

So do we throw the cheque book at Foran big time and hope that he gets past this? Tough question and the byproduct of it all is will DCE buy into an era of Manly rebuilding as virtually the sole lynchpin if Foran leaves.As long term fans we know the Eagles rarely take long to be a force once again but a Bennett led Broncos will be tough to resist. Foran staying or going may very well be what makes his mind up either way.

Personally I think Kieran will be leaving.Whether we bite the bullet and pay Kieran huge overs or really bolster a pack that needs rejuvenating badly will probably shape our next decade.The blokes who run the football side of things at Manly are prove performers and I am confident we will make the right moves.

You do realise not long ago Foran was winning most man of the match awards.

No point in Foran playing with aggression busting a shoulder and is out injured reducing our halves options. Foran has deliberately been reducing his aggressive approach(playing smarter not harder) to help keep him fresh for the back end, he is paid to create not always be an enforcer.

What is the point of halves playing with aggression behind a pack that can't compete all you are going to do is pop a shoulder and weaken the squad more by not being able to play.

Yes he has been quiet this last month or so behind a pack that can't compete so has DCE, I will say DCE has played more tough this year which I am liking.

Both halves come across as smart, intelligent and well rounded, they are currently living in a smart, intelligent classy area why would you want to leave if the contract is competitive.

No idea why I was shot down so bad for suggesting our forwards were lacking at the start and middle of the year during our good run it was so obvious.

I was impressed that the coaching staff were able to extract the performances they did and had Manly in the top 4 for most of the year with such a weak forward pack.

In saying that not once this year have Manly looked like taking the title, not enough punch, not enough aggression, way too many missed tackle counts and struggling to slow the play the ball.

We should all be thankful that when Manly have a bad year these days we still make the 8 better yet the top 4 unlike other teams.

 

[Ryan]

Firstly the bunnies were always going to win last night but 40 nil after 60 may be the best thing to happen to our club.We are not used to this and let's hope it provokes a response.Those blaming Ballin and Buhrer missing haven't been watching the last 6 weeks.Without them we were always going to lose but to put it bluntly Manly Warringah footballs teams do not succumb like that.Other factors are in play.The reality is 10 years of success in the salary cap era is sensational and it is hats off to everyone involved.This day was always coming and the key is to make the right moves.

A couple are obvious but the tricky area is around the halves.The obvious ones will happen now...Choc will go,Stevie should be allowed to leave.Both are club legends and for different reasons don't want to be here.Let them go.They deserve respect.Snake will stay simply because we will pay him almost double what other clubs will given his injuries and he is contracted till 2016.Injuries aside Bullet has a lot give our club over the next 3 years.

Now the hard bit.I have been a proponent of keep the halves and build around them like the Storms big three.The problem with that is that Kieran Foran,despite what all the fans want to believe,is looking to leave and in my opinion will be elsewhere in 2016.Only my opinion.If you want a single illustration of our problems at the moment then look at the way he is playing.The mongrel is gone and 2/3 of Kieran's paycheck is due to his incredible desire and toughness.He is playing ok but that fierceness that is his X factor is for the moment gone.

So do we throw the cheque book at Foran big time and hope that he gets past this? Tough question and the byproduct of it all is will DCE buy into an era of Manly rebuilding as virtually the sole lynchpin if Foran leaves.As long term fans we know the Eagles rarely take long to be a force once again but a Bennett led Broncos will be tough to resist. Foran staying or going may very well be what makes his mind up either way.

Personally I think Kieran will be leaving.Whether we bite the bullet and pay Kieran huge overs or really bolster a pack that needs rejuvenating badly will probably shape our next decade.The blokes who run the football side of things at Manly are prove performers and I am confident we will make the right moves.

You do realise not long ago Foran was winning most man of the match awards.

No point in Foran playing with aggression busting a shoulder and is out injured reducing our halves options. Foran has deliberately been reducing his aggressive approach(playing smarter not harder) to help keep him fresh for the back end, he is paid to create not always be an enforcer.

What is the point of halves playing with aggression behind a pack that can't compete all you are going to do is pop a shoulder and weaken the squad more by not being able to play.

Yes he has been quiet this last month or so behind a pack that can't compete so has DCE, I will say DCE has played more tough this year which I am liking.

Both halves come across as smart, intelligent and well rounded, they are currently living in a smart, intelligent classy area why would you want to leave if the contract is competitive.

No idea why I was shot down so bad for suggesting our forwards were lacking at the start and middle of the year during our good run it was so obvious.

I was impressed that the coaching staff were able to extract the performances they did and had Manly in the top 4 for most of the year with such a weak forward pack.

In saying that not once this year have Manly looked like taking the title, not enough punch, not enough aggression, way too many missed tackle counts and struggling to slow the play the ball.

We should all be thankful that when Manly have a bad year these days we still make the 8 better yet the top 4 unlike other teams.

Take a teams lock, and maybe best forward out of a team, then take out the next player who is as close to that as possible, then pull out a Hooker that is stabilizing and effective, and anyone would struggle.

I think that yes, our forwards got dominated. I also think that at full strength, our forwards would out skill and play all of their forwards.

I hate to think of adding G Stewart to that already beastly pack in Souths.

 

[Technical Coach]

Firstly the bunnies were always going to win last night but 40 nil after 60 may be the best thing to happen to our club.We are not used to this and let's hope it provokes a response.Those blaming Ballin and Buhrer missing haven't been watching the last 6 weeks.Without them we were always going to lose but to put it bluntly Manly Warringah footballs teams do not succumb like that.Other factors are in play.The reality is 10 years of success in the salary cap era is sensational and it is hats off to everyone involved.This day was always coming and the key is to make the right moves.

A couple are obvious but the tricky area is around the halves.The obvious ones will happen now...Choc will go,Stevie should be allowed to leave.Both are club legends and for different reasons don't want to be here.Let them go.They deserve respect.Snake will stay simply because we will pay him almost double what other clubs will given his injuries and he is contracted till 2016.Injuries aside Bullet has a lot give our club over the next 3 years.

Now the hard bit.I have been a proponent of keep the halves and build around them like the Storms big three.The problem with that is that Kieran Foran,despite what all the fans want to believe,is looking to leave and in my opinion will be elsewhere in 2016.Only my opinion.If you want a single illustration of our problems at the moment then look at the way he is playing.The mongrel is gone and 2/3 of Kieran's paycheck is due to his incredible desire and toughness.He is playing ok but that fierceness that is his X factor is for the moment gone.

So do we throw the cheque book at Foran big time and hope that he gets past this? Tough question and the byproduct of it all is will DCE buy into an era of Manly rebuilding as virtually the sole lynchpin if Foran leaves.As long term fans we know the Eagles rarely take long to be a force once again but a Bennett led Broncos will be tough to resist. Foran staying or going may very well be what makes his mind up either way.

Personally I think Kieran will be leaving.Whether we bite the bullet and pay Kieran huge overs or really bolster a pack that needs rejuvenating badly will probably shape our next decade.The blokes who run the football side of things at Manly are prove performers and I am confident we will make the right moves.

You do realise not long ago Foran was winning most man of the match awards.

No point in Foran playing with aggression busting a shoulder and is out injured reducing our halves options. Foran has deliberately been reducing his aggressive approach(playing smarter not harder) to help keep him fresh for the back end, he is paid to create not always be an enforcer.

What is the point of halves playing with aggression behind a pack that can't compete all you are going to do is pop a shoulder and weaken the squad more by not being able to play.

Yes he has been quiet this last month or so behind a pack that can't compete so has DCE, I will say DCE has played more tough this year which I am liking.

Both halves come across as smart, intelligent and well rounded, they are currently living in a smart, intelligent classy area why would you want to leave if the contract is competitive.

No idea why I was shot down so bad for suggesting our forwards were lacking at the start and middle of the year during our good run it was so obvious.

I was impressed that the coaching staff were able to extract the performances they did and had Manly in the top 4 for most of the year with such a weak forward pack.

In saying that not once this year have Manly looked like taking the title, not enough punch, not enough aggression, way too many missed tackle counts and struggling to slow the play the ball.

We should all be thankful that when Manly have a bad year these days we still make the 8 better yet the top 4 unlike other teams.

Take a teams lock, and maybe best forward out of a team, then take out the next player who is as close to that as possible, then pull out a Hooker that is stabilizing and effective, and anyone would struggle.

I think that yes, our forwards got dominated. I also think that at full strength, our forwards would out skill and play all of their forwards.

I hate to think of adding G Stewart to that already beastly pack in Souths.

We would only be reasonably competitive at full strength the performances throughout the year even during the winning periods have not been all that great.

Roosters and Souths are a generation ahead in terms of the physical makeup of the squad, we have the skill and smarts but lacking physically.

 

[bones]

We should not be planning to put $1mil aside for any player. I don't care who they are, or how good they are. $2mil should should have been enough to secure DCE and Foz as well as re-sign Glenn. It's not that I begrudge any player earning what they can command. I just think it's too high a percentage of a $6mil or $7mil cap to use on one player. The talent needs to spread more evenly between the backs and the forwards like it has been for last decade. We are getting light on in forwards. Next year we will be even worse off.

 

[panash]

Different price tag for different players and clubs.

For example.

If Brisbane offers DCE 700k a year and he asks manly to match it becauae his happy there and can't what does DCE do ??

If manly agree we sign a great talent half back , let senior player/s go and piss off other senior players for different reasons , and season/s become a castrophy !!!

Or manly decline lose a star half back keep an ageing roster happy and hope for the best.

It's unfair to expect a fellow team mate to take a pay cut ( especially if he is worth it or if other clubs think so ) even if certain players made decisions to take pay cuts in the past.

You don't like the situation , shut your gob or move on quietly.

 

[HappilyManly]

These marquee Player's contracts are be made up of Cap + TPA etc
So its not a 1/7th share of the Cap for a million dollar contract.

eg.
When the Dogs contract for Fifi was published, it was for 450k plus an MOU for 200+ from a TPA.

Darius and Hayne were reportedly shortchanged by 200k this year due to their Third Party Company not meeting their obligations.

 

[simon64]

We should not be planning to put $1mil aside for any player. I don't care who they are, or how good they are. $2mil should should have been enough to secure DCE and Foz as well as re-sign Glenn. It's not that I begrudge any player earning what they can command. I just think it's too high a percentage of a $6mil or $7mil cap to use on one player. The talent needs to spread more evenly between the backs and the forwards like it has been for last decade. We are getting light on in forwards. Next year we will be even worse off.

I respect your posts bones. You're usually pretty close to the money and/or pretty funny.

But how far short of the million do you think Sid and Foz are ?

For mine, they have to be worth 800K each. Surely two guys with the marketing potential of DCE and Foran can attract third party money as well.

They're young and a brilliant 6 and 7. The extension of our decade of dominance hangs on their retention for mine.