Footy - Evolved better or worse ??

[maxta]

Over the years, all Silvertails will have obviously witnessed different era's...there's a few here respectfully have seen Footy in older days than I...but plenty who missed my growing up late 80's - 90' style.

I was asked by a colleague "In your opinion, has footy improved or lost a bit since the 80's ??

Very good question as I love the game, even though I question its values at times.

The factors I came up with -

* The games were physically tougher and I liked the fact the little men could shred apart the bigger tired bodies who when replace...could not come back on, so continued half busted....today's game is great for the big players who can sub like touch footy and I'm a bit of a hypocrite, because I love having Kapow and AFB spelled and destroy the opposition fresh and fit.
Imagine Ponga playing against a tired pack - would be worth 1.5 a season !!

*Safety is now rightly a priority for player safety, but I feel the refs are at times extreme....as an example if a player is running and slips and is hit high, yet 1 foot off the ground - I rate this accidental and not even a penalty. Just 1 example of this area - plenty more ....

*I recognise the factor of the wrestle to control ruck tempo and have 2-3 in the tackle....but so many players lack legitimate tackling technique due to this process....I know every time Jake makes a tackle (1 on 1) because the attacker hits the ground quickly and on the spot - maybe this tackle should be rewarded more ?

*Players are over structured these days to the point they often don't get to display their instincts or ability, due to having to follow such strict robotic patterns all about completions and numbers.

*Unfortunately there is some strict junior coaching that takes away Natural footy ability these days imo and it's all about completions and stats....to a degree its needed, but the quality of what is done with possession is the key imo.
I am a fan of structures to ensure teams have a platform to base a game around, but like players to play what's in front of them....if there is an overlap tackle 1 - have a crack and go wide early as an example, or maybe a kick off the scrum for an Addo Carr, Jimmy Jet style player which is rarely done but has a great strike rate.

*Like most sport...has lost a bit of old school loyalty with the mighty dollar stepping in, which is understandable...but can also be disappointing to see a few honourable hearts sell out.
I really admire Arko for his fight during Super League times and it certainly did not help Manly's place in the game - yet I understand what he stood for.

These are just a few things and keen to hear other opinions on changes for good and bad over time in the NRL from fellow Silvertails...

 

[The Who]

All true.
I started watching RL in the early 60s and have seen the transformation, much of it to the detriment of the sport.
Looking back I think I can pinpoint the 'tipping point' from a brutal, but free-flowing, contest into today's spectacle which is more of a Chess game.
It was the introduction of statistics in the 70s and the Americanising of positions and tactics.
I recall Igor Randall blowing up about a stat showing that he'd made a certain number of "errors" in a particular match. He was filthy that someone could judge what an error was, and that it was in black-and-white.
Prior to stats people would know if you had played well without having to rely of post-contact metres etc to decide.
The game was much more instinctive. You weren't programmed. If you thought you saw an opportunity you'd take it, not have to second-guess yourself because the coach had given you a 'game plan'.
You could roam all over the field - if you were fit enough. Centres played alongside one another. One-on-one tackles were expected.
'Bombs' were up-and-unders. 'Hit-ups' were dying-with-the-ball. Tackles were not 'hits', punches were!
Leather footballs made conversions from the sidelines a bloody miracle. Tries were worth three points. At one stage field goals were worth two points, until Simms and Fulton started kicking three and four in some matches.
There was only one ref, who made plenty of mistakes but the match moved on so quickly they were easily forgotten and there was limited footage to check if he'd erred or not.
IMO two refs and video interference have been a blight on the sport. There are two many interchanges allowed. Low tackles are not rewarded sufficiently. Most players are robotic; rarely does the sport produce mercurial backs such as Phil Blake and Johhny Gibbs. Instead, we have big boppers such as Ingliss and Mitchell who use their strength to make breaks.
I think there is a degree of 'scripting' in the NRL these days with refs having an undue influence on results.
I could go on, but if you've read this far then I commend you on your patience.

 

[Fibro Eagle]

It’s quite simple for me
The game is not what it use to be .
When yourself or others talk about a natural footballer there seems to be far and in between in the modern game , When back in the day they were just footballers run hard , tackle hard
One thing that stands out that is the same is the referee they still get things wrong but are more scrutinised today they will always make mistakes
I just prefer the game before all the wrestle and slowing down the ruck . Just look at a game from about the 80’s the difference is obvious .and then there were still great athletes that scored freak tries eg : Blake , Grothe ,Cowora to name a few
So the answer to your question no the game hasn’t evolved to be better , imo

 

[NYEagle]

I’m not going to get technical here but the four most glaring differences to me are:

(1) the players are bigger, faster, fitter and stronger which means that 13 players cover a field pretty easily. I like the 80’s when a player could bust the line because there were not 4 players around him every tackle

(2) I used to love off set plays where a forward comes steaming on to the ball and crashes into the set line. Doesn’t happen much more because they are an easy target. I hate set plays where there two passes thrown and the player caught with the ball loses 5 metres. Hate it

(3) further to point (1) the chip and chase is now pretty much dead. Players just get to the ball too quickly now it can’t be done effectively unless there is an error.

(4) No fatigue which added so much intrigue to games back in the 80’s

NYEagle

 

[HappilyManly]

The wrestle has ruined league from the aggressive, athletic spectacle that I've watched since the 70s 😡

I see no skill in 3 men overpowering 1 at all.

That's why watching Jake (why don't other Manly forwards copy his style ) and Croker take down an opponent 1 on 1 is such a joy to watch

It's also the reason we need a 2nd Referee.
They in turn insert themselves into the game and detract from the footy 😎

Footy in the 21st century could be so much better without the wrestle 🙁

 

[BOZO]

when Manly are winning footy is always at its best

 

[ricardo]

More injuries. A full 19 players were injured magic round (which is obviously more than a full team including bench). Could look into that.

 

[Harmless27]

Its a good question.

I enjoyed Rubgy League when it was a sport, not an entertainment product (i.e. when it was free to air, when you had to listen to your team on 2BL 702 if they weren't the feature match on 9, and the pay-TV money didn't distort things)

It was a semi amateur sport, which meant the true quality players could expose the less-talented players.

It wasn't as polished, but it was more fun. If I had to name an era.... mid-90's just prior to the super league war for me.

 

[eagle66]

All true.
I started watching RL in the early 60s and have seen the transformation, much of it to the detriment of the sport.
Looking back I think I can pinpoint the 'tipping point' from a brutal, but free-flowing, contest into today's spectacle which is more of a Chess game.
It was the introduction of statistics in the 70s and the Americanising of positions and tactics.
I recall Igor Randall blowing up about a stat showing that he'd made a certain number of "errors" in a particular match. He was filthy that someone could judge what an error was, and that it was in black-and-white.
Prior to stats people would know if you had played well without having to rely of post-contact metres etc to decide.
The game was much more instinctive. You weren't programmed. If you thought you saw an opportunity you'd take it, not have to second-guess yourself because the coach had given you a 'game plan'.
You could roam all over the field - if you were fit enough. Centres played alongside one another. One-on-one tackles were expected.
'Bombs' were up-and-unders. 'Hit-ups' were dying-with-the-ball. Tackles were not 'hits', punches were!
Leather footballs made conversions from the sidelines a bloody miracle. Tries were worth three points. At one stage field goals were worth two points, until Simms and Fulton started kicking three and four in some matches.
There was only one ref, who made plenty of mistakes but the match moved on so quickly they were easily forgotten and there was limited footage to check if he'd erred or not.
IMO two refs and video interference have been a blight on the sport. There are two many interchanges allowed. Low tackles are not rewarded sufficiently. Most players are robotic; rarely does the sport produce mercurial backs such as Phil Blake and Johhny Gibbs. Instead, we have big boppers such as Ingliss and Mitchell who use their strength to make breaks.
I think there is a degree of 'scripting' in the NRL these days with refs having an undue influence on results.
I could go on, but if you've read this far then I commend you on your patience.

CLASSIC Hit-ups' were dying-with-the-ball.

It's all down to interpretation and you are correct @The Who. I haven't heard dying with the ball for quite a while and that is what we see in nearly every minute of every match. I still recall in the 90's it was a big deal, "5 hitups and kick, what has the game become."
The 70's & 80's had toughness and ingenuity

 

[Shnorky]

Over the years, all Silvertails will have obviously witnessed different era's...there's a few here respectfully have seen Footy in older days than I...but plenty who missed my growing up late 80's - 90' style.

I was asked by a colleague "In your opinion, has footy improved or lost a bit since the 80's ??

Very good question as I love the game, even though I question its values at times.

The factors I came up with -

* The games were physically tougher and I liked the fact the little men could shred apart the bigger tired bodies who when replace...could not come back on, so continued half busted....today's game is great for the big players who can sub like touch footy and I'm a bit of a hypocrite, because I love having Kapow and AFB spelled and destroy the opposition fresh and fit.
Imagine Ponga playing against a tired pack - would be worth 1.5 a season !!

*Safety is now rightly a priority for player safety, but I feel the refs are at times extreme....as an example if a player is running and slips and is hit high, yet 1 foot off the ground - I rate this accidental and not even a penalty. Just 1 example of this area - plenty more ....

*I recognise the factor of the wrestle to control ruck tempo and have 2-3 in the tackle....but so many players lack legitimate tackling technique due to this process....I know every time Jake makes a tackle (1 on 1) because the attacker hits the ground quickly and on the spot - maybe this tackle should be rewarded more ?*Players are over structured these days to the point they often don't get to display their instincts or ability, due to having to follow such strict robotic patterns all about completions and numbers.

*Unfortunately there is some strict junior coaching that takes away Natural footy ability these days imo and it's all about completions and stats....to a degree its needed, but the quality of what is done with possession is the key imo.
I am a fan of structures to ensure teams have a platform to base a game around, but like players to play what's in front of them....if there is an overlap tackle 1 - have a crack and go wide early as an example, or maybe a kick off the scrum for an Addo Carr, Jimmy Jet style player which is rarely done but has a great strike rate.

*Like most sport...has lost a bit of old school loyalty with the mighty dollar stepping in, which is understandable...but can also be disappointing to see a few honourable hearts sell out.
I really admire Arko for his fight during Super League times and it certainly did not help Manly's place in the game - yet I understand what he stood for.

These are just a few things and keen to hear other opinions on changes for good and bad over time in the NRL from fellow Silvertails...

Correct on everything there from what I can see, however it is never going to be as safe whilst there is wrestle in the ruck, and big fresh bodies colliding. I think - 2 only in a tackle, except within 10m defenders line, reward leg tackles by allowing same ruck time as 2 men standing tackles. No interchange just 4 replacements except HIA. Guys like Elgey would be much better players in the game. Penalize any lifting tackle. We have to remember that it is the mothers who allow their kids to continue playing once testosterone kicks in, so in junior league any thuggery that takes away from the natural football talent is dismissed. im sure gleenturg is looking closely at this thread

 

[wombatgc]

The wrestle has ruined league from the aggressive, athletic spectacle that I've watched since the 70s 😡

I see no skill in 3 men overpowering 1 at all.

That's why watching Jake (why don't other Manly forwards copy his style ) and Croker take down an opponent 1 on 1 is such a joy to watch

It's also the reason we need a 2nd Referee.
They in turn insert themselves into the game and detract from the footy 😎

Footy in the 21st century could be so much better without the wrestle 🙁

Yep that’s my one gripe too...the wrestle. I believe they need to reward a one on one legs tackle by calling it a name similar to a surrender tackle (grasscutter?),where by the tackled player can’t kick out the tackling player . The tackled player should be delayed 3-5 secs before they can play the ball. I know I haven’t worded it very well, but I think you get my gist.

 

[Harvies elbow]

Worse.
I liked the game when,
A knock on was a knock on and a knock back wasn't.
The ball had to hit the deck before it was a knock on unless it was propelled forward deliberately.
A tackler released the tackled player immediately.
You could take a quick tap.
You could strike for the ball in the play the ball.
They played on more often without pulling the game up.
We had deep backlines.
We had 1 referee.
No bunker.
I could go on.

I would like to see,

6 interchanges only.
A 3 second play the ball.
In goal touches.
The advantage played more often.
Todd greenturd to be involved in a bestiality scandal and Beatbox to be traded for Julian Assange.
Someone to take over the game to get the $ to the grassroots.
That'll do for now...

 

[Chip and Chase]

I'd love to see them bring back the striking at the ball in the ruck BUT only in cases where the tackled player puts the ball on the ground as he gets to his feet and steps over it. If you haven't fully stood up to play the ball then you run the risk of losing possession, and possibly a finger or two. This will slow down the ruck for an extra second and take away all these subjective penalties that are milked by players fighting to play the ball as they half get to their feet.

Leg tackles need to be rewarded, 100% agree @wombatgc , should be a "dominant tackle" and the tackler gets to keep them wrapped up for that extra second or two. I'd even allow a leg pull too, keep them down so the tackler can get up to marker - be hard to police but there has to be some reward for a good tackle and a chance to hold the mark as the dominant performer in that ruck

 

[Briza]

Having been a fan of Rugby League since the late 70's I think it slowly gone downhill from its peak in the 90's, to the point where I watch Manly and Origin only.

 

[midsteyne]

I loved the game when players were garbo,s and coppers and cellarmen.
The ref's let the biff go, players got sent off for coat hangers.

 

[Loobs]

Quality, speed and skill is vastly superior now. Watch a classic game on Foxtel - if you take any emotional attachment out of it, it's borderline unwatchable.

The only thing that really ****s me with the current game that they can't work out a way to make forward passes reviewable. Oh and scrums. Make them a contest again. Winning one against the feed is like a 40/20. If they can't fix the scrum just do away with it.

 

[Woodsie]

The seventies ... when men were men .. and bald headed GreenTurds was a medical condition ....

 

[weev]

Has anyone mentioned scrums yet?

 

[mave]

SuperLeague killed it, no question about it.

Turned the whole game into a sport for touch footy playing "athletes", with supersonic ruck speed allowed, which led to two refs needed, which led to the wrestle, which led to all sorts of injuries, counter tactics, and cheating, etc.
Nothing has been the same since SL.

NRL is not real Rugby League, imo, which is why I have advocated people get down to your local A grade club and get a reminder of how Rugby League used to be played at the top level, and what's required to get the NRL closer to what I believe most punters want to watch.

 

[Nike]

Reduce the interchange or change the 10 metres and the rate of collision related injuries will drop, not to mention it increases fatigue which opens up the game for the more diminutive players ala Preston Campbell to have a viable impact.

I'd say there has to be more of an effort from the top towards a balance between encouraging footballers AND athletes. The footy is better today, no doubt about that but the administration has been alienating fans left, right and centre which feeds into the frustration and criticisms. As @Loobs mentioned before the older games are almost unwatchable now for fans like myself who weren't around.