Flipping the 'forwards win matches' mantra in 2024

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The Who

Journey Man
It appears our coaches and masters are hoping to re-visit the past by compiling a team of forward toilers with flashy backs. It worked in the 1980s for Parramatta who, by and large, had packs that held oppositions with unwavering defence then unleashed a mighty backline of Cronin, Ella, Grothe, Kenny, Sterling etc.
I'm surmising that our tactics in 2024 will be similar. If possible we'll use our pack as workhorses (why else would we recruit Wardell?) and give our backs the ball at every opportunity.
In 2024 we could be playing an exciting brand of football, replacing the bash-and-barge style by giving early ball to attacking weapons DCE, Brooks, Koala, Garrick, Saab and Turbo. This backline is, potentially, as good as any.
Looking at our 2024 pack I can only see Guacca as the sole ball-runner and The Shoe as the sole ball-player', the latter of whom will need to regain his mojo if he is to even make the 17.
Thoughts?
 

Blake

Reserve Grader
We got a bit of a sneak peak at that style during the manly v panthers game towards the end of the season. They got the ball out wide, early and for a little while there we were right in the game.
That is, until Panthers did what the Panthers do so well and just grind the game away from us.
 

08Dream

Member
Tipping Member
I also remember Seibs and Schuster saying something along the lines of numbers on the back will be just that and that players wont be confined to a single position on the field.
 

40 nil

It's only a game ...
That is, until Panthers did what the Panthers do so well and just grind the game away from us.
The Sea Eagles played flamboyantly in that game, but in the process gifted 12 points to the Panthers (Crichton intercepted a DCE pass & Turuva scored from an ill fated Garrick kick).
 

jbb/james

First Grader
Premium Member
Tipping Member
after a pack plays its first 10 or 15 minutes
Teams either grind the opposition out
or attempt to blow them away

We are stuck on option B repeated. It has about a 30% sucess rate, mostly against weaker opposition. it looks great and we usually add 1 decent scalp per season

That is Manly wit Tom as a cheat code
 

rmd

Reserve Grader
Tipping Member
It appears our coaches and masters are hoping to re-visit the past by compiling a team of forward toilers with flashy backs. It worked in the 1980s for Parramatta who, by and large, had packs that held oppositions with unwavering defence then unleashed a mighty backline of Cronin, Ella, Grothe, Kenny, Sterling etc.
I'm surmising that our tactics in 2024 will be similar. If possible we'll use our pack as workhorses (why else would we recruit Wardell?) and give our backs the ball at every opportunity.
In 2024 we could be playing an exciting brand of football, replacing the bash-and-barge style by giving early ball to attacking weapons DCE, Brooks, Koala, Garrick, Saab and Turbo. This backline is, potentially, as good as any.
Looking at our 2024 pack I can only see Guacca as the sole ball-runner and The Shoe as the sole ball-player', the latter of whom will need to regain his mojo if he is to even make the 17.
Thoughts?
I think if you look back at those days of the early 80's, of Manly v Parra, Manly had by far the best forwards in the comp and all of them played SOO or for Australia, whereas Parra, apart from Price, were toilers and they basically had 5 of the Australian back line.

Gibson's philosophy at Parra seemed to be 'if we can stop them scoring, we'll score plenty' and yet at the Roosters prior, he had the completely opposite situation, with an amazing forward pack and with only a few stars in the backline, and those he had, he knew could contest the high ball. So John Peard became 'the bomber'. Gibson really was a master of structuring his game strategy around the squad he had.

Penrith at the moment is completely different, as they just have reps across the board and barring allegiance to their home country, or through heritage, they'd probably have 9 in the Australian squad, not all necessarily starting, but in the squad. How they fit them all under the Cap I have no idea, however, they continually have to release players, and they do so, and then from their huge nursery, another few step up and become stars.

We talk about forwards and backs.

The NRL is all about metres gained in any set of 6, and usually the 'grunts' hit up at least 3 tackles a set, maybe 4, sometimes 5.

The defence has to be 10 metres behind the play the ball, whereas the attacking team can be flat, however, usually the first runners are a metre behind the play the ball when they take the ball, at which time the defence has already encroached at least a metre, and assuming each player runs at the same speed, a gain of 5m is probably equitable, should a tackle be effective. Those forwards who average over 10m a carry indicates they actually break the line far more often than not. Haas is a great example, as he can be stopped for a 2m gain and then in the next set run for a 20m gain.

So:
Plan A: Our strategy is to reduce the amount of distance the opposition gains in their attack allowing our team to attack from closer range and gradually place more pressure, as they are constantly playing deep in their half and we are likely to find errors. And that seems to be Seibs plan.

Plan B: Stuff Plan A, let's just see what happens and hope for the best. It could be an alternative!
 

LeonardCohen

Bencher
It’s a dumb strategy. I understand it in the context of last season’s match against the Panthers because we had an enormous injury toll in the pack and nothing to lose, but to meticulously go about assembling a squad (if that’s indeed what we are doing) for this type of low percentage football, is fraught with danger.

The last team I can remember (I could be wrong) that threw the ball around and leaked points but still won the comp, were Penrith in 2003. Most years, the team with the best pack and best defence wins.

I am concerned by our recruitment. Lodge (injured), Waddell (NSW Cup quality), Woods (retire please) and Brown (should retire now). Goodbye Fainu and Keppie. Seriously?!

We should be keeping the young and athletic types to supplement our top pack, not bring in and/or keep crap. The game is all about speed…we need a faster pack.
 

Stewbojevic

Reserve Grader
It’s a dumb strategy. I understand it in the context of last season’s match against the Panthers because we had an enormous injury toll in the pack and nothing to lose, but to meticulously go about assembling a squad (if that’s indeed what we are doing) for this type of low percentage football, is fraught with danger.

The last team I can remember (I could be wrong) that threw the ball around and leaked points but still won the comp, were Penrith in 2003. Most years, the team with the best pack and best defence wins.

I am concerned by our recruitment. Lodge (injured), Waddell (NSW Cup quality), Woods (retire please) and Brown (should retire now). Goodbye Fainu and Keppie. Seriously?!

We should be keeping the young and athletic types to supplement our top pack, not bring in and/or keep crap. The game is all about speed…we need a faster pack.
Yea the speed in our pack is non-existent.

Paseka has decent speed for his size and Bully/Burbo are relatively quick. The rest are painfully slow.
 

joshcooper123

Reserve Grader
Yea the speed in our pack is non-existent.

Paseka has decent speed for his size and Bully/Burbo are relatively quick. The rest are painfully slow.
100% agree, i don't get why we are looking at signing Nathan Brown where we could of been getting Connor Watson who will be improving our leg speed in the middle of the park for 60 mins coming off the bench after the first 20 after we win the forward battle. They are both roosters players that are without a contract for 2024 and would be on very similar cash.
 

40 nil

It's only a game ...
We should be keeping the young and athletic types to supplement our top pack, not bring in and/or keep crap. The game is all about speed…we need a faster pack.
It appears the coach is aiming for short term results (job security?) rather than long term squad development.

During the 2022 preseason, Koula was hyped by players & coaching staff as the 'next big thing'. Slowly, but surely the hype has been justified.

During the 2023 preseason, there was similar hype from players & coaching staff about Samuela, but he was only given a taste of NRL. For whatever reason, our best junior forward since Haumole (IMO) was moved on. Similarly, our best junior halves prospect since DCE was moved on (btw, I don't think Samuela is a bad kid - time will tell).

p.s. I think Brooks will probably shine as a Sea Eagle
 

SeaEagleRock8

Sea Eagle Lach
Premium Member
Tipping Member
Yea the speed in our pack is non-existent.

Paseka has decent speed for his size and Bully/Burbo are relatively quick. The rest are painfully slow.
Paseka has great speed for a big man and so does Bull.

Likely changes so far, from 2023 pack:

In: Lodge (for Keppie), Schu (for Tuilagi), James (Woods), Waddell (Fainu), and Brown or someone (Condon)
Also Burbo, Matterson, and Arthur will all probably feature more often next year.They're mobile and hard workers with some skill.
Plus Gordie could really make a difference as a dummy half option.

So all up (and ignoring personal qualities) that definitely looks like a net win. Bit more oomph, and more creativity through Schu and Gordie.
 

The Who

Journey Man
The last team I can remember (I could be wrong) that threw the ball around and leaked points but still won the comp, were Penrith in 2003. Most years, the team with the best pack and best defence wins.
The Tuggers won in 2005 using that strategy.
 

Phobia

Reserve Grader
It appears the coach is aiming for short term results (job security?) rather than long term squad development.
Given what happened to Tooves, Hasler, and the constant breathing down their necks by Penn's management, this might be a good idea from Seibold for himself. Some of the results in the 2004/5 season under Des would've had him sacked under the club's current management. But instead they stuck with him and let him build, and Manly became a premiership force. The premiership pressure breathing down the coach's neck today and Penn's stupid belief that we have a premiership roster is completely counter-intuitive and is detrimental to the club's long term development.
 

lsz

First Grader
Staff member
The way the current player market works it is pretty simplistic to just look at the current players on the market as the players who are avail on 1 November are possible as well


As an example could we make an offer to a Toby Rudolph (as an example...). Sharks are then in a position to keep a player who is going elsewhere or focus on a hazzleton to secure him by using some of the Rudolph money.
 

Eagle Eyed

Reserve Grader
Paseka has great speed for a big man and so does Bull.

Likely changes so far, from 2023 pack:

In: Lodge (for Keppie), Schu (for Tuilagi), James (Woods), Waddell (Fainu), and Brown or someone (Condon)
Also Burbo, Matterson, and Arthur will all probably feature more often next year.They're mobile and hard workers with some skill.
Plus Gordie could really make a difference as a dummy half option.

So all up (and ignoring personal qualities) that definitely looks like a net win. Bit more oomph, and more creativity through Schu and Gordie.
I like to see the positivity, and with a bit of luck with injuries, Brooks fresh start, who knows, I like our chances of a more than competitive titlt
 
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