Post-Game Discussion Eels v Manly [Round 16, 2023]

[Budgie]

Agree mostly but dropping balls cold, not playing the ball properly, missing one-on-one tackles and laying on guys on the 5th tackle until you hear a six-again call has very little to do with coaching at NRL level…
It is all effort and concentration (which our players constantly display a distinct lack of)…
YES, possession told the story but only half the story… if it had been a tennis match Manly’s forced errors stats would have been manageable but our unforced errors were off-the-charts…

The question of why this is happening is exclusively for the coach to answer and then rectify.

He, too, is a statistics beast, but statistics only help those with the coaching nous to fix the problem.

 

[Eagle 1]

It must be a constant surprise to these commentators that gutho isn't in the soo / test team seeing he is the most amazing footballer ever to lace up the boots.

Spot on Global, Gutho's everyone's friend, he's lived of the, oh Manly ditched me and Parra took me in line for so long now it's become tiresome. Can't say i blame him, the armchair experts are all in on this to.

 

[frank stokes]

The question of why this is happening is exclusively for the coach to answer and then rectify.

He, too, is a statistics beast, but statistics only help those with the coaching nous to fix the problem.

It is happening because players get tired and lose their concentration…

you can coach that out of players to a certain point but there is a ceiling - sooner or later it has to be put down to the inability of the individual to concentrate under pressure and duress…

 

[Darknstormy]

This resonates with me. I watch Nrl weekly and still see manly play beach footy instead.
Its not that we lose , but how we are always made to look like amateurs in a professional league

even on a good day manly get beaten to the ball in so many different ways through a game its concerning and not seemingly covered under "its a results driven business "
we also seem to think completions are the only way to control possession instead of creating contests that can change that outcome.
completely ignore so many basic principles
too good for the grind

And we came from SOOO MUCH

This is how bad we are…when we get a repeat set the opposition kick short and know manly will crumble lol

 

[Tomay]

We need to sort out our props. Aloia, Woods and Keppie are terrible. Jake is the only starting caliber middle we have. Paseka and Bullemore are fine bench calibre middles but that’s it.

 

[Bearfax]

Agree mostly but dropping balls cold, not playing the ball properly, missing one-on-one tackles and laying on guys on the 5th tackle until you hear a six-again call has very little to do with coaching at NRL level…
It is all effort and concentration (which our players constantly display a distinct lack of)…
YES, possession told the story but only half the story… if it had been a tennis match Manly’s forced errors stats would have been manageable but our unforced errors were off-the-charts…

Frank you're saying exactly the same as I am. Those issues are coaching issues. if it was just one player doing it I would get him off the field. But this is like a virus in the team. Happens to so many. Its commitment and that starts at the coaching level. I stressed its not just possession. Its also defense. This team leaks points. We're defensively equal to the Tigers and they're coming last. If we didnt have some talented attacking players scoring and setting up tries we'd be down there too.

 

[frank stokes]

Frank you're saying exactly the same as I am. Those issues are coaching issues. if it was just one player doing it I would get him off the field. But this is like a virus in the team. Happens to so many. Its commitment and that starts at the coaching level. I stressed its not just possession. Its also defense. This team leaks points. We're defensively equal to the Tigers and they're coming last. If we didnt have some talented attacking players scoring and setting up tries we'd be down there too.

I totally agree with you Bear but I reckon that some of the little errors being made by these blokes under pressure (and often when not under pressure) cannot be coached out at this point…
They are largely the result of poor concentration and I am not convinced that this can be improved so far into their NRL careers…

 

[manly al]

Think that the game was gone after the i st 15 mins or so , not just with the shocking handling and failing to cope with pressure but just the total lack of proper structure in attack and defence . Even that ineffectual kick for touch by Jacob Arthur instead of an attacking kick in the very early stages just set the wrong tone eve more . Can :t understand also why so many just dumb plays from players who really should know better , Sipley , Alioia , Haumole [ though he is still needed longer term for the side to get back to some more consistent and competitive level ] Like to know who had the wisdom to sign Alioia for another 2 season after this one , that attempted tackle on Hopgood was C grade standard . Outplayed , out coached , lack of co ordination, sub standard tackling , just could not imagine it being any worse prior to the game but has been a pattern just so regularly this season and just reminiscent of the last stanza of games last season . Probably need Garrick back on one wing again , doubt if Saab will repeat last night 's shaky effort . Tippy toes went back to just having no confidence under the high ball , maybe Vagea could offer more . Ferris could be worth looking at or that other Blacktown centre [ not Harper ] but maybe they are not available . Weekes probably did do not too bad in general and certainly showed his pace when he quite easily tracked down Sivo . One bright spot when Koula got clear . Schuster probably could not have gone worse in a game where he of course really needed to step up . Bulemor continues to impress , why he has not been re signed is a total mystery when there are plods like Alioia and to a lesser extent Sipley on longer term deals . Not one of Tent "s best games but needed long term like Haumole to get the team to some semblance of respectability Probably miss Jake the most out of the " big " 3 missing in order or to help hold the middle together . Maybe time to find another 13 , Bully , Sam Fainu , Zac Fulton . Would not mind Stuckey coming into contention as another edge option but probably availability issues as well . Also just can not comprehend the benefit of kicking the ball on the 3 rd or 4 th tackle when the side was struggling for possession as it was .

 

[Bearfax]

There’s talent in the squad but it only gets you so far. I don’t see a lot of competitive spirit and energy in our roster. Your favourite Schu is great when it comes to doing the fancy stuff, the stuff you see as ‘exceptional ability’ but he is much like rest of our squad in his application to the fundamental effort areas of the game.

A team is made up of 17 variables. Too many of our 17 variables are lacking competitive edge, spirit, desire and effort. The Eels did nothing fancy last night but proved that competing hard trumps the ability to throw clever passes and chip kick. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not exclusively blaming Schu for our loss but feel the squad is made of too many players with talent and not much else.

LC I agree but again this is a coaching issue. Players respond to the energy and belief in their coach. These kids need to think like a team not as individuals. As I said, Fulton knew how important possession and defense was. You don't need champion players to defend, just be committed. Get that fixed up and the team will function. We saw it against the Storm and against the Dolphins. They looked committed. But it has to be maintained.

Manly's most recent premiership sides were top defensively. Average points against in 1987 was 14.5, 2008: 14.5 and 2011: 13.8. Compare with Manly recently 2018: 24, 2019: 18 (best year), 2020: 25, 2021: 20.5, 2022: 24. So far this season its 23. You cant win if you don't defend. It remains Manly's Achilles Heel, along with retaining possession despite all the promises of improvement and we've had a large range of players in that time

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Spot on Global, Gutho's everyone's friend, he's lived of the, oh Manly ditched me and Parra took me in line for so long now it's become tiresome. Can't say i blame him, the armchair experts are all in on this to.

Gutherson is popular because he is a fitness fanatic who gets the most out of his talent, he is always courageous under the high ball, he has great vision, and, most importantly, he has footy nous and a massive competitive drive.
It's just a pity Manly didn't recognise those traits years ago when he wanted nothing more than to be a Sea Eagle.

 

[Darknstormy]

We need to sort out our props. Aloia, Woods and Keppie are terrible. Jake is the only starting caliber middle we have. Paseka and Bullemore are fine bench calibre middles but that’s it.

What do you think of Sipley?

 

[Bearfax]

I totally agree with you Bear but I reckon that some of the little errors being made by these blokes under pressure (and often when not under pressure) cannot be coached out at this point…
They are largely the result of poor concentration and I am not convinced that this can be improved so far into their NRL careers…

Concentration comes from training. You learn to do something over and over and over and the chances of making a mistake diminish. Basic training for a kid learning to catch. Do it over and over and eventually the kid wont drop the ball. Most of these skills become automatic. If they panic its because its not yet automatic. I drive a car and my reactions are virtually automatic if I get into a difficult situation. No panic, allow your training to take over. You don't even think about it. If you're not confident, it means you're not properly trained. If they drop the ball often, it mean they're not properly trained.

 

[frank stokes]

Concentration comes from training. You learn to do something over and over and over and the chances of making a mistake diminish. Basic training for a kid learning to catch. Do it over and over and eventually the kid wont drop the ball. Most of these skills become automatic. If they panic its because its not yet automatic. I drive a car and my reactions are virtually automatic if I get into a difficult situation. No panic, allow your training to take over. You don't even think about it. If you're not confident, it means you're not properly trained. If they drop the ball often, it mean they're not properly trained.

Again, agree… but most of these blokes have had 2 seasons at least at NRL level and are still failing under pressure…

Even Bart Cummings and Tommy Smith had to move nags on at some point when it became obvious that, despite the best training regimes in the world, they would be more competitive at Kembla Grange than they were at Randwick…

 

[jbb/james]

Here is a perspective

who does the team hold in high regards in terms of safe mistake free footy. Who sets that benchmark/ standard, and is then in a position to demand better from others because they walk the talk

been good winners for a while and boy do we whoop it up when we are up by 30 but we are also that team that lets the last minutes in games go when they will win allowing soft tries . its really soft and shows how happy we are to apply the handbrake whenever possible in any game. Cue in rack

we try to get by, self preserve . It is the Manly team for some time.

 

[LeonardCohen]

Gutherson is popular because he is a fitness fanatic who gets the most out of his talent, he is always courageous under the high ball, he has great vision, and, most importantly, he has footy nous and a massive competitive drive.
It's just a pity Manly didn't recognise those traits years ago when he wanted nothing more than to be a Sea Eagle.

* popular with the commentators.

Opposition fans can't stand him.

 

[jbb/james]

Gutherson is popular because he is a fitness fanatic who gets the most out of his talent, he is always courageous under the high ball, he has great vision, and, most importantly, he has footy nous and a massive competitive drive.
It's just a pity Manly didn't recognise those traits years ago when he wanted nothing more than to be a Sea Eagle.

guthos play to strip paseka over the line is the smartest play from a manly junior in a decade

 

[Bearfax]

Again, agree… but most of these blokes have had 2 seasons at least at NRL level and are still failing under pressure…

Even Bart Cummings and Tommy Smith had to move nags on at some point when it became obvious that, despite the best training regimes in the world, they would be more competitive at Kembla Grange than they were at Randwick…

What do they say. Practice, practice, practice. Slap on head. Practice, practice practice. Slap on head. Practice pr....

 

[frank stokes]

What do they say. Practice, practice, practice. Slap on head. Practice, practice practice. Slap on head. Practice pr....

Or in Darren Weir’s case… practice, practice, practice. Cattle prod. Practice, practice, practice. Cattle prod…

 

[Eagle 1]

Gutherson is popular because he is a fitness fanatic who gets the most out of his talent, he is always courageous under the high ball, he has great vision, and, most importantly, he has footy nous and a massive competitive drive.
It's just a pity Manly didn't recognise those traits years ago when he wanted nothing more than to be a Sea Eagle.

Oh well, that's life I guess. He's not the first one we've let go. The commentators keep pushing this line, ex Manly player doing wonders at Parra etc etc. How long has it been now.. I've heard enough.

 

[frank stokes]

Here is a perspective

who does the team hold in high regards in terms of safe mistake free footy. Who sets that benchmark/ standard, and is then in a position to demand better from others because they walk the talk

been good winners for a while and boy do we whoop it up when we are up by 30 but we are also that team that lets the last minutes in games go when they will win allowing soft tries . its really soft and shows how happy we are to apply the handbrake whenever possible in any game. Cue in rack

we try to get by, self preserve . It is the Manly team for some time.

Jake… terrible with giving away 6 agains tho (although better this year)