Dumb

[maxta]

Apologies if this has already been posted.

2 early penalties to allow Wests out of their half when we had them on the rack. They were good enough to turn that into repeat sets, then into points.

Were those penalties fair dinkum? If so, who were the players so dumb as to do that?

I'm happy if the culprits get dropped or fined to make a point!!

Perrett’s offload to start the second half... under instructions? I doubt it!

We have enough good players, and we began with energy, but in the modern game a modicum of intelligence is required.

It’s usually called discipline, and the most disciplined team usually goes far.

In a few cases yesterday we were dumb, and it killed us against a disciplined team.

100% the turning point.....smashing the hapless Tigers with possible the best defensive set all season and then from THAT penalty, Tigers control the ball for the following 15 minutes and 3-4 quick tries.
The thing that is key here for me is not even the dumb penalty, but the attitude following this moment....I mean the defence went from first class to B grade park footy on the back of copping a penalty.
The Champion Manly teams in recent years would have been pi##ed at the penalty whether it was deserved or not and taken the anger out on the Tigers attackers, bashing them in numbers and either creating a dropped ball or ordinary set....instead the heads dropped and it went from "The Iron curtain Defence" to the "Kleenex Defence" and this is pure and simple Bad Attitude.
The way this current team falls apart when there is even a glimpse of adversity is frustrating, I mean the teams with resolve and guts to bounce back from bad calls, mistakes are always a sight in a game, many an Underdog team has beaten more fancied opposition purely off this factor and its un-Manly like (parden the pun) to lack the element of Attitude that had us the most hated, envied team for so many years.

 

[Ralphie]

We don't have a genuine leader on the field. We are used to having a team of 150 + gamers who are cool, calm and committed. DCE isn't a leader IMO and Jake tries his guts out to lead by example but he can only do so much. Too many times over the last 2 seasons we have capitulated when the chips are down. We quickly turn into a rabble and teams run in 20 or 30 unanswered points - we don't have good game management and execution to get ourselves back into contests.

We look a million bucks when things are going our way, but apart from the odd game here and there we aren't showing a lot of toughness to fight our way back into games when momentum swings against us. That comes back to coaching and on field leadership.

We have a team filled with Milleniels. If we had a fit & firing Jamie Lyon leading them we would top 4.

We need 2 things to be competitive again, a leader like Jamie Lyon & a coach like Des Hasler.

 

[BK13]

We look a million bucks when things are going our way, but apart from the odd game here and there we aren't showing a lot of toughness to fight our way back into games when momentum swings against us. That comes back to coaching and on field leadership.

That is 100% spot on. In the golden era things went wrong and Killer, Skivvy, Gifty, Watmough......and 5 others would lift.....make it right. Stop the flow. We don't have that. We are too inclined to sulk for the next 5mins.

 

[1969]

We have a team filled with Milleniels. If we had a fit & firing Jamie Lyon leading them we would top 4.

We need 2 things to be competitive again, a leader like Jamie Lyon & a coach like Des Hasler.

I would rather drape my bollocks over a barbed wire electric fence, than have Hasler back as our coach.

 

[Paw93]

Thank you! Finally someone that talks about the penalties and errors instead of the halves. Croker's not the best 5/8 but if we're always defending then even JT would be made to look like crap.

 

[Snake]

That's the Bozo influence - he pretty much cleaned out our forward stocks and started from scratch. Not that I think he has done a bad job, when it works it looks great - big units hitting the line and offloading. Our issue the last two weeks has been intensity in defence and line speed - these big units aren't hitting with any purpose and there is no line speed in D. We used to bash teams when they had the ball during those Des days, now we wait and cuddle. We struggle to win the ruck because of that and then that leads to penalties for laying on players, hands on balls, not square at marker - all the byproducts of not dominating the tackle. We need to work on turning momentum through some committed defence.

You are correct on all counts. Fulton did make a concerted effort to bring big forwards that can offload to the club and you are also correct about our lack of line speed and failure to dominate the ruck. We keep talking about the halves and the attack but we aren't struggling to score points when we have the ball, it's stopping the opposition from scoring that is the problem. We lose the ruck week in week out. Even against the Raiders, we only won the ruck for a short period in the first half. We've played about an hour and a half of quality football all season so far.

 

[Ralphie]

I would rather drape my bollocks over a barbed wire electric fence, than have Hasler back as our coach.

Well then, each to their own. Just so I know what location to steer clear of, when Hasler comes back where will this self inflicted event be happening.

 

[Karin]

Well then, each to their own. Just so I know what location to steer clear of, when Hasler comes back where will this self inflicted event be happening.

No thank you to Hasler coming back.

I think the game has changed too much and Hasler hasn't adjusted to these new changes.

 

[Ralphie]

No thank you to Hasler coming back.

I think the game has changed too much and Hasler hasn't adjusted to these new changes.

I keep hearing how the game has changed, yet the current crop of top teams seem to be running hard, tackling hard & running block plays.

New you say? Okie Dokie 🙂

 

[Spartan Eagle]

I would rather drape my bollocks over a barbed wire electric fence, than have Hasler back as our coach.

Ouch. Are you sure mate.? And this one's not even electric !

 

[MuzztheEagle]

100% the turning point.....smashing the hapless Tigers with possible the best defensive set all season and then from THAT penalty, Tigers control the ball for the following 15 minutes and 3-4 quick tries.
The thing that is key here for me is not even the dumb penalty, but the attitude following this moment....I mean the defence went from first class to B grade park footy on the back of copping a penalty.
The Champion Manly teams in recent years would have been pi##ed at the penalty whether it was deserved or not and taken the anger out on the Tigers attackers, bashing them in numbers and either creating a dropped ball or ordinary set....instead the heads dropped and it went from "The Iron curtain Defence" to the "Kleenex Defence" and this is pure and simple Bad Attitude.
The way this current team falls apart when there is even a glimpse of adversity is frustrating, I mean the teams with resolve and guts to bounce back from bad calls, mistakes are always a sight in a game, many an Underdog team has beaten more fancied opposition purely off this factor and its un-Manly like (parden the pun) to lack the element of Attitude that had us the most hated, envied team for so many years.

The same thing happened in a number of games last year and its scary when it happens, half the team seems to switch off and there is no coming back. We were all over the Tigers in that set, even the commentators could see it, but we were really pushing the limits with the refs for a penalty and from the 2nd tackle I could feel it coming.
My best guess is that we came out with a game plan to get quickly off the line and shut down the Tiger's play-makers but after the first and subsequent penalties half the team doesn't want to give away the penalty while other half sticks with the game plan and looks so out of place next to the players next to them that they give away a penalty or worse a line break. There is a real lack of team cohesion when things don't go our way.

 

[Captain Moondog]

Maybe we need a new team song...
LIFE IS HARD, BUT IT'S HARDEST WHEN YOU'RE DUMB
(Mark Graham)

Life is hard, but life is hardest when you're dumb
No joie de vivre, just endless hours of tedium
With a negative IQ,
You'll be lonely, sad, and blue
Life is hard, but life is hardest when you're dumb

Life is hard, but life is hardest when you're dumb
You wait for years but inspiration never comes
Thoughts you don't have remain unheard
'Cause you can not find the words
Life is hard, but life is hardest when you're dumb

Life is hard, but life is hardest when you're dumb
Between your ears a dark and silent vac-u-um
If there's a void behind your face,
Why not rent out the vacant space
Life is hard, but life is hardest when you're dumb

Life is hard, but life is hardest when you're dumb
Why not just lay back and smoke a bowl of opium
If being stupid is your fate,
Well just relax 'cause it's too late
Life is hard, but life is hardest when you're dumb

 

[Karin]

I keep hearing how the game has changed, yet the current crop of top teams seem to be running hard, tackling hard & running block plays.

New you say? Okie Dokie 🙂

I mean relying mainly on bulked up forwards (like he did with the Bulldogs) isn't going cut it anymore.

 

[Ralphie]

I mean relying mainly on bulked up forwards (like he did with the Bulldogs) isn't going cut it anymore.

Ok, so James Graham goes to St Merge & they are killing it with that very same approach.

 

[Karin]

Ok, so James Graham goes to St Merge & they are killing it with that very same approach.

And yet Des wasn't able to pull it off...

 

[Ralphie]

And yet Des wasn't able to pull it off...

Nah, a complete failure. He only made 2 Grand Finals & 4 finals series in 5 years. Barrett by comparison.........oh wait.......

 

[Karin]

Nah, a complete failure. He only made 2 Grand Finals & 4 finals series in 5 years. Barrett by comparison.........oh wait.......

He has coached for 13 years Barrett is in his 3rd.
He has left the Bulldogs with back ended contracts- yet again.

Not taking any past success away from him, also not forgetting how $$ talks and walks.

I think it is time to agree to disagree

 

[Technical Coach]

I say again James Graham would have been absolutely perfect, and look how his team is going now!!

Too simplistic to look at the situation in such a way, Manly have lacked forward depth and overall depth for a while now, do you sign Graham and lose 2-3 up and coming forwards who would add depth.

Graham would look sluggish in a team that is lacking forward fire power and depth (just like the over-rated Bulldogs pack at the end of his time)

You need to retain the depth and youthful aggressiveness then add the experience----much harder to do in these more strict salary cap times.(but not impossible)

Can you imagine how many more players Manly would have to offload after the "investigation" comes to an end if we had Graham also on our books.

I just wish the NRL "pay back mode" mentality will hurry up and be done with, the circle jerk they are having at the moment has been going on for far too long.

 

[Technical Coach]

We have a team filled with Milleniels. If we had a fit & firing Jamie Lyon leading them we would top 4.

We need 2 things to be competitive again, a leader like Jamie Lyon & a coach like Des Hasler.

Well the Xbox PS generation are used to rewinds/flash backs or cutting their losses and starting the game again when things go wrong "to fix a mistake".

 

[Technical Coach]

What this match showed - apart from reinforcing that refs change the course of each game - is that Big isn't always better. In the past season we've been fixated on big forwards, which will work when we have the ball but in the first half yesterday we had just 21% of possession. The Tigers' small, more mobile team ran our guys ragged. Kapow, AFB, Perrett, Penny, Tent, even Jake, are slow (Jake is a prop playing as a lock). When there is a lot of ball movement we don't cope well. Cast your mind back to when we had Gift, Dropnaugh, BJ and Buhrer - smaller, faster forwards who could also tackle.
When you saw both teams warm up it looked like a mis-match; we were so much bigger than the Tigers. How wrong that proved.
If you watched our Under 16s play you would have noticed how many huge Polynesian kids we now have. This must be a deliberate recruitment ploy which doesn't always work.

I wouldn't say Manly have a bad mix in the size department---i think they have done quite well in this area.

When you are talking about size it is more in relation to not having sluggish "fat type" old school size players, you definitely need size that still retains good mobility and leg drive.

If you cast your mind back to the above smaller forwards you are referring to they ended up being a generation behind(size wise) even as far back as 2012, even during the 2013 GF year (back line saved Manlys arse that year) and struggling to contain other forward packs.

Just a little more resilience and the penalty count momentum swings will turn around---if anything with higher penalty counts and stop start play size should be less of an issue.(at times)

Manly are just not digging in to come out the other side and build their own penalty set swing against the opposition.