Doesn't it warm the soul

[Lyonstomenzies]

That was Tooveys plan. Seemed like a pretty good one to.

I always thought that our long term replacements for Brett Stewart, Lyon & Matai were TomT, Hiku and Gutherson and all interchangeable. It did seem to be the plan

 

[yokahontas]

It certainly wasn't for Walker, who at that stage was a Rabbit just recovering from his overdose. In fact judging by my helpful time line (post #14 above) I'd say Hiku was released for Walker.

You may well be right - it's all just speculation - but I suspect more than one player had to be let go to fit Walker in. Two months from Gutherson being released to Walker signing isn't a great amount of time. I'd guess that getting Walker for 2017 was in the planning prior to his OD - that just paved the way for him to be released a year early.

 

[HoldenV8]

The new "Irish International" James Hasson

Ok, I should have said legitimate international lol

 

[HoldenV8]

You may well be right - it's all just speculation - but I suspect more than one player had to be let go to fit Walker in. Two months from Gutherson being released to Walker signing isn't a great amount of time. I'd guess that getting Walker for 2017 was in the planning prior to his OD - that just paved the way for him to be released a year early.

From what I remember, we were targeting both Walker and Marty Taupau for this year but both suddenly became available for 2016 and before any other club got their hooks in, we pounced.

Losing Peta Hiku did hurt because he was a good player here and if he can get over being injury prone he'll do well at Penrith. But letting Gutho go was just a bonehead move by the club.

 

[Snake]

Gutho left because he was one of the players told he would be granted a release if he could find a contract elsewhere, despite having two years to run on his Manly contract. If he was so desperate to leave so he could play fullback, why did he re-sign in the first place...?

Pretty damn likely he got the tap on the shoulder to free up money when Walker became available. And I know which player I'd rather have in a Manly jersey...

Yeah he got tapped on the shoulder because he was behind Snake and Tom...tapped or not, the point stands that the circumstances around his exit are different to the circumstances now and hindsight is a marvellous thing.

 

[yokahontas]

Yeah he got tapped on the shoulder because he was behind Snake and Tom...tapped or not, the point stands that the circumstances around his exit are different to the circumstances now and hindsight is a marvellous thing.

Mate, he was behind Snake and Tom when he signed the extension - less than six months before he was granted the release. That's the point you missed - that circumstance did not change between him signing the extension and him being granted the release.

What DID change was 14 players being told they could/should look elsewhere, and a couple of players (Taupau and Walker) becoming available earlier than expected. Taupau is not a bad signing; Walker was never, and will never be, an upgrade on Gutherson. On attitude, guts and defensive ability alone, Gutho craps all over him, without even looking at attacking talent/potential.

If you're looking for the guy who got his reputation, his premiership, and his rep honours off the pure luck of coming into an established side at its peak - look no further than D. Walker.

 

[Snake]

Mate, he was behind Snake and Tom when he signed the extension - less than six months before he was granted the release. That's the point you missed - that circumstance did not change between him signing the extension and him being granted the release.

What DID change was 14 players being told they could/should look elsewhere, and a couple of players (Taupau and Walker) becoming available earlier than expected. Taupau is not a bad signing; Walker was never, and will never be, an upgrade on Gutherson. On attitude, guts and defensive ability alone, Gutho craps all over him, without even looking at attacking talent/potential.

If you're looking for the guy who got his reputation, his premiership, and his rep honours off the pure luck of coming into an established side at its peak - look no further than D. Walker.

I am pretty sure the circumstances around the salary cap changed between him signing the extension. Players were tapped on the shoulder for a reason. We had the positions covered and we needed to free up cash...at the time there was no foreseeable pathway for Gutho to make the 17 so he was moved on...then injuries and form played a role; something that no one could predict and that's my point.

Look, I don't completely disagree with you...it may have been a short sighted move and it probably has come back to bite us on the arse a little but I don't think Gutherson is the messiah. He is doing a good job but Tom T is the man and Gutho is Eels scum now and he kinda runs like a fairy anyway so I am just gonna focus on my club and my players and Gutherson can kiss my arse!

 

[yokahontas]

I am pretty sure the circumstances around the salary cap changed between him signing the extension. Players were tapped on the shoulder for a reason. We had the positions covered and we needed to free up cash...at the time there was no foreseeable pathway for Gutho to make the 17 so he was moved on...then injuries and form played a role; something that no one could predict and that's my point.

Look, I don't completely disagree with you...it may have been a short sighted move and it probably has come back to bite us on the arse a little but I don't think Gutherson is the messiah. He is doing a good job but Tom T is the man and Gutho is Eels scum now and he kinda runs like a fairy anyway so I am just gonna focus on my club and my players and Gutherson can kiss my arse!

I'm not saying Gutherson is a better fullback than Tom, far from it. But he's not playing fullback at Parramatta either - and fullback was never his only position. He would've been a very tidy centre or 5/8 option for us, just like he is for them.

And I don't think his position 'in line' behind Tom ever changed, from re-signing to being released, and he would've known that all along.

 

[Snake]

I'm not saying Gutherson is a better fullback than Tom, far from it. But he's not playing fullback at Parramatta either - and fullback was never his only position. He would've been a very tidy centre or 5/8 option for us, just like he is for them.

And I don't think his position 'in line' behind Tom ever changed, from re-signing to being released, and he would've known that all along.

I think he'd be a good winger for us and obviously he wouldn't let you down in the centres but I think he will struggle at 6 against good sides with quality defence...time will tell.

Anyway I respect your opinion and I can see how it's been formed...there has been a lot of collateral damage at Manly in the last two years; I am still getting over Toovey being dismissed...I don't know that I ever will.