Defence

[maxta]

It is the wingers job to time his run and leap to where the ball is coming down .... not where he hopes or would like it to be ...

The notion that the kicker is in any way responsible for the wingers success at catching the ball baffles me ... I know the response I would have gotten from Ray Ritchie or biscuits if I had used that excuse ...

Zac Lomax turns ordinary kicks into pay dirt every week ...

PSS ... Thanks for your kind words ....

Sincerely happy to see you back Woodsie.....and I totally agree with your point, the catch should be made regardless of where it comes down......my point I probably expressed poorly, was the Manly attack in the red zone, the kicks are always "off" too far/wide/short and Saab regularly makes the grab, but is not in a position to plant the ball down, if the kicks were more on point, would be rewarded with more tries as the the preying mantis like Saab would cash in with better service and this would become another option than the "in vogue" shift with backdoor plays to 2nd runners, which seems our only real weapon near the line.
To take it a step further while on the talk of attacking on the line, would like to see a rampaging Oka (from the deep) running unders lines at an iscolated half, or being dropped under near the line.....our forward seem to flat when near the line and we have big men, I feel off say a Harry Grant type who can engage the ruck defence - Paseka, Oka, Sipley would be scoring far more regularly

 

[master blaster]

It is the wingers job to time his run and leap to where the ball is coming down .... not where he hopes or would like it to be ...

The notion that the kicker is in any way responsible for the wingers success at catching the ball baffles me ... I know the response I would have gotten from Ray Ritchie or biscuits if I had used that excuse ...

Zac Lomax turns ordinary kicks into pay dirt every week ...

PSS ... Thanks for your kind words ....

Yeah welcome back, missed ya bigtime

 

[Woodsie]

Saab regularly makes the grab

^ this is the point we disagree on ... he is as often no where near the ball, or completely stuffs up his timing and leap imo ... he gets the odd good one, and does something useful with it ... but Tommy T is way better, as is Lehi.

But as I said, I believe he is better than useful when the ball is coming directly towards him in defence, not so much when coming from the side or overhead

 

[eaglebuzz]

For the record mate, while I'm having a go at recruitment, I'm also arguing against myself here, in that I actually think we already have the tools at the club (barring maybe ONE speedster at prop), to make things more competitive for us:

1. Jake Simpkin needs to be hooker, simple as that. Almost a 70% win record at Hooker with us (very shortsample size), versus Croker who sits in the 40's.

2. Caleb Navale should be in the 12 or 13 jersey. Has the leg speed. Has the intensity. Just needs to be mature enough to carry that from week to week, but we've nurtured him slowly, and really embraced the kid, so I think he could do it.

3. One of Tommy Talau (Dene Halatau type role) or Jake Arthur should be in the other backrow / lock spot. That automatically makes us MUCH more agile, especially defensively.

4. Ethan Bullemor is our starting prop. He makes more impact than almost all of our forwards barring maybe Olakau'atu. Forget contract values, time for us to make footballing decisions that improve the team.

08. Taniela Paseka
09. Jake Simpkin
10. Ethan Bullemor
11. Haumole Olakau'atu
12. Tommy Talau
13. Caleb Navale

And then Jake Trbojevic, Jazz Tevaga, Corey Waddell, Josh Aloiai, Lachlan Croker, Nathan Brown, Siosiua Taukeiaho, Toff Sipley, Michael Chee Kam, Chris Patolo, Ben Trbojevic can fight it out for the last 4 spots. My selection would be:

14. Jazz Tevaga (could play forward or hooker)
15. Josh Aloiai
16. Siosiua Tuakeiaho
17. Chris Patolo

I've left some fan favorites out there I get it. But we NEED to change. Siebold has come 12th and 7th so far, and in my view, that's un-Manly like despite the club (and some fans) praising ourselves.

For the record, our backline is blue-chip.

I've said it before but I really disagree about Bullemor in the starting side. He's smaller and faster which is much more suited to the later periods after the bash and barge phase is over. I agree that his impact is excellent but I think being on the bench is a significant factor behind why that is the case.

 

[Sheikheagle]

Ummmm Saab has jumped high & taken bombs on numerous occasions!

Yep agree.

 

[Sheikheagle]

He is very good at taking defensive bombs ... less than average at taking attacking bombs imo.

Fair call.

 

[Red Baron]

Keen to see how we turn up in D this season. I’ll be happy with 450 points or less scored against us by the end of the regular season.

 

[eaglebuzz]

Keen to see how we turn up in D this season. I’ll be happy with 450 points or less scored against us by the end of the regular season.

If the trials are any indication then our defense still needs a ton of work.

 

[Red Baron]

If the trials are any indication then our defense still needs a ton of work.

I think we will be fine as long as we don’t get any major injuries 🤞

 

[Disco]

If the trials are any indication then our defense still needs a ton of work.

Yes....but also Tommy barking orders at the back is a big upgrade on Falaulo at the back (which is when most of the points were scored in both games).

We need to improve our defence from last year but the trials don't worry me.

 

[Terry Zarsoff]

If we are any threat we MUST fix our defence. You cannot concede 21.7 points a game and hope to challenge.

The goal for this season has to be to reduce that to a minimum of 18 points a game.

The team has to get out of the awful habit of conceding points after giving away penalities and six agains. It was a massive problem and undid all the good work the team did in attack.

Did you mean a maximum of 18 points per game?

Big difference.😉

 

[madmax]

Ohhh to have the defence of our 96,97 team & attack of this team!!! Unbeatable!

 

[Ron E. Gibbs]

We need to improve our defence from last year but the trials don't worry me.

The one thing that bothered me about the trials is the same thing that's bothered me for years and I hoped Seibold would fix: we don't appear to have any systems in defence or attack. Everything is ad-libbed. Contrast that to the Penrith third-grade side who rolled us, who played to the same systems as the first-grade side. They have patterns in attack and defence where every player knows his role, as well as the roles of the players around him. So while the players may change, the systems don't.

 

[jbb/james]

The one thing that bothered me about the trials is the same thing that's bothered me for years and I hoped Seibold would fix: we don't appear to have any systems in defence or attack. Everything is ad-libbed. Contrast that to the Penrith third-grade side who rolled us, who played to the same systems as the first-grade side. They have patterns in attack and defence where every player knows his role, as well as the roles of the players around him. So while the players may change, the systems don't.

i know the word systems are thrown around as a magical but when it comes down to it, it just looks like game management. control and kicking over skills and footy

The riff have the best game manager and are the best team and the other players emulate and strive to be cleary like. it helps there juniors are hungry and the wests comp is pretty huge with plenty of big island boys litteed through the grades. Even tylor bunting coing on as 5th string seemed to have patience but was 8 zillion to 1 ay manly

bellamy is the best coach and he creates game managers with hard work and discipline...Blake green, cooper cronk, jerohme hughes. Its an assembly line and they are highly accountable for the role every week and melbourne just grind it out

brisbane had a great year when adam reynolds walked into the role and they fell off whem he limped out with injury

history showns brains, skill and braun beat skill and braun more often. with fatigue the game needs to be kept simple and players need reliability to help them get tthrough long periods of defence and the riff forwards are often seen head down knowing its not there play and getting ready to head downtown and check out momentarily. its reliable and respectful to the work they do IMO

flashy footy is good for sponsership

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

flashy footy is good for sponsership

Also, certain clubs have different styles. Manly has always played an attractive attacking brand of footy. Even when we were the best defensive side in the mid-90s. Storm are known for being regimented, Dogs tenacious etc.

Obviously the best side in any given year must be good at defence and attack. I agree with you that a reckless attitude in attack simply turns the ball over and soon the pressure on defence becomes too much.
But personally I want to see Manly win games with spectacular play. I want them to have impenetrable defence but only so that they then have the freedom to delight with extravagant attack.
A balancing act no doubt.

 

[jbb/james]

Also, certain clubs have different styles. Manly has always played an attractive attacking brand of footy. Even when we were the best defensive side in the mid-90s. Storm are known for being regimented, Dogs tenacious etc.

Obviously the best side in any given year must be good at defence and attack. I agree with you that a reckless attitude in attack simply turns the ball over and soon the pressure on defence becomes too much.
But personally I want to see Manly win games with spectacular play. I want them to have impenetrable defence but only so that they then have the freedom to delight with extravagant attack.
A balancing act no doubt.

Of course entertainment styles are in the eye of the beholder. I dont think penrith or melbourne are necessary boring BTW, there fans seem pretty pumped, can book finals tickets and annual leave for 2075

Entertaining is fine while your waiting to be successful i suppose but ultimately more about how we accept our losses and maybe not about how we improve . Might help a coach a bit as it helps with sponsors

Its rare a 42 30 game keeps me glued or what i consider best footy entertainment even if it has 5 tries for the ages

Its always been about the balance of the game in jeopardy what thrills me. Everyone loves a long range try but they are highlights ond not an indicator of game quality and for me the entertainment value

 

[manly al]

Some encouragement ongoing in that on a few occasions last season and particularly again in games early on against the Storm , Roosters and Panthers , Manly 's overall defence was of a real good standard .
Maintaining that on a consistent basis has been the real problem.
Also that late season defensive effort against the Sharks , another definite negative and especially covering inside plays and reading outside plays .
Seemed to show just that lack of desperation and ability to react defensively and not going to be a top 4 contender or even anticipated top 8 side unless this can be in better order .
Swarming type defence of the Panthers on a regular basis, very effective and certainly lays a good platform , some element of this would no doubt help Manly but still needs that individual or collective ability and effort measures to do better defensively .
Just have to see how that stated off season priority to get some improved defensive outcomes goes once the season proper gets underway

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Its always been about the balance of the game in jeopardy what thrills me. Everyone loves a long range try but they are highlights ond not an indicator of game quality and for me the entertainment value

That's where we differ. I enjoy any game in which Manly is always leading by at least 6+ points.
Close games kill me, and losing games kill me even worse!

 

[Lloyd]

I tend to think where we struggle and are know where near the Penriths and Melbournes is slowing the ruck down. Those two in particular have their defenders tangled with the attacking player which slows the ruck down and helps them set their defence much better than the rest. It is particularly noticeable when you watch them live. I think our defence is ok when we have time to set but we consistently lose the ruck and I don’t see us being top 4 until this area improves.

 

[maxta]

I tend to think where we struggle and are know where near the Penriths and Melbournes is slowing the ruck down. Those two in particular have their defenders tangled with the attacking player which slows the ruck down and helps them set their defence much better than the rest. It is particularly noticeable when you watch them live. I think our defence is ok when we have time to set but we consistently lose the ruck and I don’t see us being top 4 until this area improves.

I agree...and watch the difference.
Line speed is "off the pace" and there's reasons -

Apart from Oka, the pack lack contacts often and the opposition bends our line, making it obvious when attempting to slow the play ball and it's penalty time.
Also they generate more numbers in the tackle, allowing more control defensively and also allowing a "peel off" effect, very legal and adding seconds to each tackle.
Lastly they almost always "Put the player on the grass" and 90% on their backs further gifting time to reset the defensive line.
This combined adds up to a slower play ball and the defence can generate that line speed over and over, which is the snowball effect in controlling the ruck.