Debate on Tommy T

[maxta]

Noone can doubt his ability or the magic he brings to Manly - the bloke is a Freak.
Bet the question I ask.....
Many believe you shut down Tom T - you shut down Manly...
After the Storm and Rabbits finals games, all you heard was media and fans talking up Manly had last these games on the back of Tommy T being shut down and in reflection, his influence was down on most other games.
Personally see it more take away his input, as he is such quality you can only minimise his ability, not stop it.
Now to the Real factor....in these games Manly were bullied in the middle of the field, losing contacts and were out enthused losing the tempo and control which had the butterfly effect on Tom T , taking away his possession rate, where he got the ball, his time and space, giving the impression he was shut down, where in reality his team around him had to find a way to lift which in essence, would have made Tom Far more dangerous.
Just my opinion, but interested to see how fellow Silvertails see it ??
Did they magically shut Tom down, or close down the machine room in the middle to stop Tommy making the candy ?

 

[highlandeagle]

The forwards need to be fitter and hungrier. They need to dominate and work on their line speed. Hopefully they will improve like they did from 07 to 08.

 

[40 nil]

close down the machine room in the middle to stop Tommy making the candy ?

This ^

 

[47MVEagle]

Agree, our forwards need to dominate to give our backs (not just Turbo) opportunity & room to move.

 

[Shoe1]

It’s a myth Maxta. Storm and Souths shut down our forwards. Not tommy. No space for tommy to shine if the forwards don’t hold their own.

 

[Ranga]

Agree with the comments that they shut down the engine room. The biggest difference I see between us and the top 3 in attack is the top 3 have more bodies in motion. Forwards, backs, they all have more energy pushing up and around the ball in the middle of the park, which makes the defence second guess and helps create momentum.

 

[Woodsie]

No backs .. Tom included .. but no backs or half's have ever excelled in 113 years behind a beaten pack.

.This also gets back to the debate about the use of the interchange bench ... and what players are used where .. People can talk all day long about how Walker has played well .. and he has ... but one player playing well in a team of forwards going backwards ain't gonna work.

We have the players and talent .. we just need to get the mix, positions and game structures right .. onwards and upwards in 2022 ..

 

[StuBoot]

I'll argue that Souffs didn't shut down Tom.
They came hard at us early BUT when we got up their end Tom put Garrick over but Suli wasn't diligent enough to not run into Reynolds.
Tom got over down the right and 99/100 times he scores - but the ball came free - good luck or good management from Souufs?

That's twice early in the game that they couldn't shut him down, overall the team just wasn't good enough to overcome those two negative plays and the 50/50's went their way.
We shut ourselves down chasing the game and we know what effect those two missed opportunities had.

 

[Eagle 1]

I'll argue that Souffs didn't shut down Tom.
They came hard at us early BUT when we got up their end Tom put Garrick over but Suli wasn't diligent enough to not run into Reynolds.
Tom got over down the right and 99/100 times he scores - but the ball came free - good luck or good management from Souufs?

That's twice early in the game that they couldn't shut him down, overall the team just wasn't good enough to overcome those two negative plays and the 50/50's went their way.
We shut ourselves down chasing the game and we know what effect those two missed opportunities had.

I concur with your assessment SB, just think it was a game we weren't far of winning. We made lots of mistakes and errors, possession was at around 60-40 sths. If we had scored those two disallowed try's in the first half, and momentum always goes with try scoring. Souths could of folded and become mentally shot, and thinking it's all to hard. 2nd half was better, we scored twice at the end on 10min of sustained possession and pressure. We will learn from this and be a better side for it....oh back to Maxtas survey, no dominance from the forwards, then Tommy gets snookered ( a snooker term ) every time.

 

[manlyfan76]

Imagine Cliff Lyons in a team with Turbo.

Schuster is our best hope in these games. He will create if there is extra attention on our Turbo

 

[jbb/james]

things to consider regarding the forwards
we essentially have the same forward pack when tommy plays and when he doesnt yet we are an entirely different team
last year AFB and marty tore teams a new one. we only looked good when they were on the field. no tommy and we were historically abysmal even though forwards were killing the ad line for big parts of games

In the semis tom had less impact granted, but that was mainly better opposition who kept there heads and gameplan and didnt fold because they were mentally better teams as well . we destroyed the chooks in between because there roster wasnt as good

the refs put the whistle to sleep in finals so the 10m and ruck speed is increased in semis and our attack style to do everything 2 or 3 passes off the ruck played into the fast moving defensive hands

these forwards will play better with a better slice of possession and have fought back to give the team opportunities well into both losing semis. if our gameplan is to be rolling the dice constantly and kick poorly we should invest in new forwards more suited to those conditions.

what we really lack is a backrower who gets back to help the backs out of our territory from kicks. i think this is where the bench of walker and lawnton hurts us. they are keen but not the type of bodies built for it. Liam martin is fantastic at this

be honest 1 in 4 of our kick offs fall 20 m short . This **** has to change. you just cant give teams easy yardage anywhere, anytime

 

[Freagle]

keppie was a massive loss, so early in that final. Brings mongrel, line speed, hard hits etc.

 

[lsz]

I think it is more of a comment on the standard of league "journalism" and a lack of proper analysis that results in the "no tommy no manly".

Clearly, we came up against better packs and could not match them - something I think our young pack will address next year

 

[George Rose's Butcher]

I thought he had alot less involvement in both those final games. Alot less dummy half runs and 1st receiver runs. Whether it was a game plan or not i dont know just something I observed. 🤷

 

[The Who]

Possession has a lot to do with results. Manly coughed up a lot of ball to both Melbourne and Souffs and paid the price.
The same thing happened to Storm against the 'Riff and the very talented Pap Smear was nullified.
When we play against a top 4 team we need a 50-50 share of possession, and Turbo will get us home most of the time.