D -- DAY FOR DES

[pjayz]

These are negotistion issues rather than a conversation about ability. Still relevant.
You have bought up and intersting point about cap balance.the last time we were successful was when we had a balanced halves pairing providing the necessary game to be contenders

The question i pose is how we afford that without weakening other components. The biggest cut to the bottom line i see is in cherries contract, because he wont achieve the results we want unless others are shaping the game. And he hasnt lived up to those lofty heights in years, if ever

We were happy to let go of AFB even though he is one of the best props . While he requested it , we were happy to get his salary off the books to get aoli , foran , and a bit of fat tonspread round

I agree that Cherry is not going to suddenly become the game manager we all want, his skill set lays elsewhere. Given that, I also agree that $1.25m is too much; however, he is an elite player in the current competition. That is why he is the QLD and Aus half-back. Supply and demand principles are at play here. Probably only Cleary could rightfully get those dollars as a complete halfback. Keary and Munster are 5/8's and would be up there with Cleary. That is it. DCE is ahead of the other halves in the competition. The halves are vital to any team, without a good one you have no chance. We have one of the few good ones. Look at the money Hunt is on, or Milford, or Brookes - all way over paid because the demand is high and the supply is low.

I do agree that being able to knock off $300k from his salary and re-distributing that would be a big help. The club should be looking to work with Daly's manager and encouraging third party sponsorships to offset that amount. Daly is the QLD captain, well spoken and well presented - surely sponsors would be interested. This is where the club needs to lift its game. They need to make Manly's brand attractive, which is why the off field crap that seems to follow this club has to stop.

It isn't an easy one, and this is where the CEO and his management team need to prove their worth and get creative. DCE isn't going to give up coin, but there is an opportunity to 're-finance' so to speak. We need DCE, and we need cap balance - so now we need the people with the ingenuity to make that happen.

 

[Captain Moondog]

D-day for Vacine
Just watched some old lady on the TV with Scomo get the first pfizer shot in Australia. Morrison holds up two fingers and says "V for Vacine" in classic Churchill fashion. The old lady gives him the same salute the other way around LOL.

 

[jbb/james]

Have to take into account that D C E would be receiving the player marquee allowance and probably a continuing T P A so not all negative with his big chunk of the cap but so would other high profile players from other clubs and Cherry is still apparently the highest paid . Just the fact he is pretty settled in Manly with 3 seasons left and plenty of promising players coming through and at reasonable contract levels [ at least for some time yet ] ideally better that he sees out his contract and again can produce some high quality footy on a regular basis in the process

I am very hopeful that a different scenario could play out

At one point DCE signed a contract that did not reflect his abilities and he held manly over barrel even though contracted.

Im wondering if a man that did that once, backflipped on the titans now has it in himself to reduce his contract due to his desire to win some comps

He once witnessed a culture where players took unders to ensure succcess so he has seen other great players act this way. A lot of the milestones that people bang on about to justify his greatness were only possible due to other players sacrifice

He is touted as a leader. Surely these lessons would not be lost on such greatness, a manly legend with plenty of coin down the back of the lounge

Greatness is not about what we take but about what we give

He may just be all about the coin, loves living on the beaches and being backslapped . Its his choice, he has the option.

 

[manly al]

I am very hopeful that a different scenario could play out

At one point DCE signed a contract that did not reflect his abilities and he held manly over barrel even though contracted.

Im wondering if a man that did that once, backflipped on the titans now has it in himself to reduce his contract due to his desire to win some comps

He once witnessed a culture where players took unders to ensure succcess so he has seen other great players act this way. A lot of the milestones that people bang on about to justify his greatness were only possible due to other players sacrifice

He is touted as a leader. Surely these lessons would not be lost on such greatness, a manly legend with plenty of coin down the back of the lounge

Greatness is not about what we take but about what we give

He may just be all about the coin, loves living on the beaches and being backslapped . Its his choice, he has the option.

Can see where you are coming from but it was the Titan"s offer that Manly were then pretty compelled to offer if they wished to retain him and taking into account that a few months earlier Manly balked at continuing with that initial 850 k offer , So in many ways , can not blame him for going for the big bucks on offer and even his back flip on a purely professional level . Different matter if he was up for a renewed contract now but at this stage of his career and an existing contract in place , think he knows when he is on to a good thing and purely in a professional sense , money wise .

 

[Captain Moondog]

D-day for Vacine
Just watched some old lady on the TV with Scomo get the first pfizer shot in Australia. Morrison holds up two fingers and says "V for Vacine" in classic Churchill fashion. The old lady gives him the same salute the other way around LOL.

I see in the replays they've deleted the bit where she had her fingers the right/wrong way.

 

[Woodsie]

These are negotiation issues rather than a conversation about ability. Still relevant.
You have bought up and intersting point about cap balance.the last time we were successful was when we had a balanced halves pairing providing the necessary game to be contenders

The question i pose is how we afford that without weakening other components. The biggest cut to the bottom line i see is in cherries contract, because he wont achieve the results we want unless others are shaping the game. And he hasnt lived up to those lofty heights in years, if ever

We were happy to let go of AFB even though he is one of the best props . While he requested it , we were happy to get his salary off the books to get aoli , foran , and a bit of fat tonspread round

I will come over to your side ... if you can tell me what outstanding half you think will come to Manly on less than DCE's wicket ... Nathan Cleary? Keary? Jahrome Hughes ?

 

[court83]

Im a huge dce fan.. feels like I've spent the last 7 years on here defending the bloke.. but if he decides to leave then good on him.. all the best.. at 32 years old he isn't our future anymore.. and with guys like turbos taking up a million + each i think we need to look at the next 7 coming up, or buy one if we dont have one already..
If he decides to stay on for another r2 years, that's great too... but at some point, we gotta blood our next long term halfback

 

[Woodsie]

I agree that Cherry is not going to suddenly become the game manager we all want, his skill set lays elsewhere. Given that, I also agree that $1.25m is too much; however, he is an elite player in the current competition. That is why he is the QLD and Aus half-back. Supply and demand principles are at play here. Probably only Cleary could rightfully get those dollars as a complete halfback. Keary and Munster are 5/8's and would be up there with Cleary. That is it. DCE is ahead of the other halves in the competition. The halves are vital to any team, without a good one you have no chance. We have one of the few good ones. Look at the money Hunt is on, or Milford, or Brookes - all way over paid because the demand is high and the supply is low.

I do agree that being able to knock off $300k from his salary and re-distributing that would be a big help. The club should be looking to work with Daly's manager and encouraging third party sponsorships to offset that amount. Daly is the QLD captain, well spoken and well presented - surely sponsors would be interested. This is where the club needs to lift its game. They need to make Manly's brand attractive, which is why the off field crap that seems to follow this club has to stop.

It isn't an easy one, and this is where the CEO and his management team need to prove their worth and get creative. DCE isn't going to give up coin, but their is an opportunity to 're-finance' so to speak. We need DCE, and we need cap balance - so now we need the people with the ingenuity to make that happen.

DCE in addition to any TPA's also qualifies as a long serving player .. this is his 11th year in 1st grade ... so I believe at least $100k of his contract is salary cap free ... maybe more ..

 

[Kevinward777]

DCE, is still the man.

 

[XV-1]

DCE in addition to any TPA's also qualifies as a long serving player .. this is his 11th year in 1st grade ... so I believe at least $100k of his contract is salary cap free ... maybe more ..

Doesn't he now get a testimonial?

Scam did 5 years b4 he retired.

Can the nrl gives DCE's wife a diamond ring too?
Ps - not suggesting DCE is having any relationship with Vonny. 🙂

 

[Moops]

You seem to be forgetting that Manly could not afford to re-sign DCE and Foran.

Foran lied to Manly’s face, pushed up his price and forced Manly to pull their offer on DCE, as Foran was first choice.

It was proven that Foran had no intention of re-signing with Manly, but to screw us around in his pact with Whatmough to join Parra.

What else was Manly to do? Lose both halves?

Remember, DCE never wanted to leave Manly, Foran did.

Yet, here we are and the lying POS is back at Manly.

The club hasn't been a premiership threat since DCE signed that contract anyway, so with the benefit of hindsight the club probably would have been better served letting him go and identifying a young half/halves to build a team around. Cheaper option as well.

 

[BOZO]

i too beleive players and in fact all people should be paid for there contributions. He is a good player, no where near great and he should get a good return

Forgive me if the exact numbers are not correct

Manly offered chez 800 k but stuffed him around
Then we offered him 1.25 to backflip
He had not got any better , his worth went up only as a lure and he has not really improved or worked on the big ticket items. He is still an 800 man.
Chez not only has not matured to be the leader the team needs in Term of kicking and patience on field, he does provide other qualities , but he shows absolutely no intention of doing so , continually trotting out the line that he needs someone else to do that. Would he be that shameless if he were playing for a contract every 2 seasons.I think not. We say this about other players. Why is he exempt

Blake green to run the team on 350 k
Foran to run the team on similar
Expecting the club to find a game manager on a pittance is not a long term strategy to build the success you speak of but we are contuinually looking for it because we lack it. Getting enigmatic halfbacks that run the ball , back up and throw the odd face ball is far easier that employing or even finding a game manager

we bag the roosters but they knew mitchell pearce lacked the tools no matter how stacked the team they put around him
We can not do that due to his contract. Cherry is part of a winning team but he needs more partners than the greats of the game to bring success, yet he is paid as a great of the game, not just in some manly supporters eyes.

The bay city rollers were idolised , but not as quality musicians , but they still had steadfast fans that idolised them . While they were a fad there are still some that love them

I disagree
Thurston could not win a Premiership with the Cowboys either in their early rebuild years until they surrounded him with quality players to do so

Blake Green may run a NRL team for $350 Grand but he has not played in the highest level for his country and won a premiership for his team and a captained his state of origin team to a winning series against all the odds and against a star studded NSW team

Foran has been injury prone and DCE rarely misses a game and his durability gives our club great value

You are comparing Cherries with apples feathered friend and if you go to your fruit shop next time you will find the Cherries much more expensive

You pay for what you get and Manly have the best in DCE

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

D-day for Vacine
Just watched some old lady on the TV with Scomo get the first pfizer shot in Australia. Morrison holds up two fingers and says "V for Vacine" in classic Churchill fashion. The old lady gives him the same salute the other way around LOL.

Wrong thread of course but seeing you mention that - I noticed a news report yesterday of anti-vaxer protests across Australia. Featuring, you guessed it, Proud Boys. Gee those guys really give beards a bad name. Looks like Qanon and neo-Nazis are emboldened here just as they have been in the good ole US of A.

 

[BOZO]

The impact of the Valuable DCE...

For Cust there's another element in his elevation to first grade. He is playing with someone he watched carefully and admired as a teenager: Daly Cherry-Evans.

"I'm lucky. I get to learn off someone like Daly," he told NRL.com
"Now that I'm playing with him it's a dream because he's got so much control out there, he makes other players around him, like me, play better."

"In the 2013 grand final [v Roosters] I went into the sheds and got a photo with him. So I've been a big fan for while.

 

[Technical Coach]

i too beleive players and in fact all people should be paid for there contributions. He is a good player, no where near great and he should get a good return

Forgive me if the exact numbers are not correct

Manly offered chez 800 k but stuffed him around
Then we offered him 1.25 to backflip
He had not got any better , his worth went up only as a lure and he has not really improved or worked on the big ticket items. He is still an 800 man.
Chez not only has not matured to be the leader the team needs in Term of kicking and patience on field, he does provide other qualities , but he shows absolutely no intention of doing so , continually trotting out the line that he needs someone else to do that. Would he be that shameless if he were playing for a contract every 2 seasons.I think not. We say this about other players. Why is he exempt

Blake green to run the team on 350 k
Foran to run the team on similar
Expecting the club to find a game manager on a pittance is not a long term strategy to build the success you speak of but we are contuinually looking for it because we lack it. Getting enigmatic halfbacks that run the ball , back up and throw the odd face ball is far easier that employing or even finding a game manager

we bag the roosters but they knew mitchell pearce lacked the tools no matter how stacked the team they put around him
We can not do that due to his contract. Cherry is part of a winning team but he needs more partners than the greats of the game to bring success, yet he is paid as a great of the game, not just in some manly supporters eyes.

The bay city rollers were idolised , but not as quality musicians , but they still had steadfast fans that idolised them . While they were a fad there are still some that love them

From what i recall Manly made DCE an offer and DCE stuffed Manly around that is why the offer was taken off---in the aftermath it was made out that Manly were the bad guys in negotiations to justify the 1.25 backflip later on and also lacking options with Foran leaving.

The DCE never wanted to leave crap doesn't show by his actions at the time---it was reported an offer was made by Manly so why didn't DCE sign it there and then on the spot before it was taken away if he was happy with the contract.

 

[EaglesDontTweet]

Below from an 2015 article written before the DCE back-flip...

I was signed, sealed and delivered at Manly

Last October Cherry-Evans accepted a deal put to him, by the former Manly management.

But things quickly changed when a new regime was ushered in

"Yeah, it blows my mind. I was all but signed, sealed and delivered with Manly," DCE revealed.

Full Story link: DCE reveals why he had to walk out on Manly

 

[Captain Moondog]

Wrong thread of course but seeing you mention that - I noticed a news report yesterday of anti-vaxer protests across Australia. Featuring, you guessed it, Proud Boys. Gee those guys really give beards a bad name. Looks like Qanon and neo-Nazis are emboldened here just as they have been in the good ole US of A.

Pognophobes will always look for ways of associating the facially hirsute with the lunatic fringe. Beardism lurks just below the surface in many societies and we should be constantly vigilant........I am not an anti-vaxer but I'd hesitate to group them all with contentious splinter groups, there may be some but I'd be surprised if they were the majority.

 

[globaleagle]

Pogonophobia....

Fear of beards.

The term pogonophobia is derived from the Greek words pogon for beard and phobos for fear.

~ Now I've learnt something today...!

Pognophobia is, I'm assuming, a fear of pogs.


(lol)

 

[Captain Moondog]

Fear the Beard

 

[jbb/james]

I will come over to your side ... if you can tell me what outstanding half you think will come to Manly on less than DCE's wicket ... Nathan Cleary? Keary? Jahrome Hughes ?

Firstly you can not purchase top line halfbacks when you only have journey man budget due to having all your eggs in one basket. While we have DcE we wont be shopping for anyone with class. Its that simple
Cleary got his big contract partly on potential but you could see the guy had poise and patience. I thought he was still a gamble for price and contract length but he showed last year that it may be good signing. Its a dad and dave package with ivan and ivan was a manly man so i suppose thats the angle

Keary went for a relative song when he left souths. I suppose manly just didnt see it in him and now he is entrenched . As long as he plays good footy he wont be leaving the chooks. Opportunity lost

Id be careful with hughes. A bit of a journey man who came good in the storm system. He is probably commanding 3 times the salary he is playing for currently.

Could des attract a big name with coin. Not sure , until such time a gritty 4th or 5th is better that a spasmodic 6th or 12 th because you learn how to win and play tough so when you acquire the missing piece the team is ready

Was jeff robson the half at cronulla when they won. Hardly a superstar in terms of salary or even individual deeds. The canberra halves are so so.

I know what you say but if we want to land a big fish we have to make the tough decisions first and have a salary cap war chest Cherry does not look like he will guide us to the big dance. He may coincidently be there when others do but that is also unlikely.

He has some skills but as his name suggests he is the cherry on top as opposed to the whole sundae

we were very poor second half of last season in just about everything we did, starting front rowers aside. We were absolutely rudderless , with zero kicking game and an attack always attitude that resulted in poor ball retention and much more defence. The rudder and the attack plan was on the field every game. He doesnt have to win it but he has to perform his own duties, which he did not

In the end the top teams might spend 1.5 ish on the halves . To retain cherry we need to spend 2.1 minimum. Keiran foran gamble aside

To me its like paying top dollar to talmalolo ( spelling bad ) and him wanting to stop running hard and be a ball playing centre with 13 on his back. You just say NO or tell him he is on centre money of 600 k

I have commented before DCE stands for Daly cake and eat it
I was called stuff . Meh