Cross-Forum-Discussion Cross Forum NRL discussion [Round 16, 2021] - Lockdown edition

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Super interesting stuff.
I wonder what these next round of rule changes that are in the works will entail?

It doesn't matter how many times Vlandys tells me these games are more entertaining, even with the blowouts, they are not.
The game is broken at the moment and Saturday is a perfect example of it.
148-6 for and against from one afternoon of footy is crazy.
The Storm with record breaking points in a season is crazy.
The knee -jerk 6 again's and sin-bins are crazy.

Vlandys has a massive job on his hands and he would want to act fast to stop the tide of fans turning away from the game.

Crazy and not at all enjoyable or fun. I don't watch games like this where one side is either hopelessly outclassed week in, week out or worse and more common, one side is completely reffed out of a game.

I just want the idiot in charge to stop the knee jerk changes and go back to the 2019 rules. In hindsight, we complained a lot but we didn't know how good we had it then.

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Great must read on the state of the game. Share to your forums

https://pythagonrl.com/2021/07/04/its-not-just-the-six-again/

One of the biggest points to me were the comments about it being a world cup year and if paid professionals in the NRL are getting walloped what is going to happen when the minnows come up against Australia or New Zealand.

Scores could blow out to 80 or 90+... how is that going to help create a foothold in international football ??

I think England could even get absolutely smashed.

I would've liked to see the international game stay as penalties instead of 6 agains. That could at least see what happens when 6 again NRL players go back to the penalty era and if there is a serious impact on quality or do things return to somewhat normalcy.

We've already seen what happens when an elite NRL team (Manly) vs a reserve grade team (Bulldogs).... what viewers are go to survive the group stages and even quarters/semis looking at 50 and 60 point margins.

The final could even be 50 or 60 plus, because let's face it Australia will comprise primarily NSW players whereas NZ may not be near that level

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Super interesting stuff.
I wonder what these next round of rule changes that are in the works will entail?

It doesn't matter how many times Vlandys tells me these games are more entertaining, even with the blowouts, they are not.
The game is broken at the moment and Saturday is a perfect example of it.
148-6 for and against from one afternoon of footy is crazy.
The Storm with record breaking points in a season is crazy.
The knee -jerk 6 again's and sin-bins are crazy.

Vlandys has a massive job on his hands and he would want to act fast to stop the tide of fans turning away from the game.

I think at minimum it needs to be penalties in your own half and bring back scrums for kicks that go dead in touch.

The penalty in your own half is needed to deter the blatant ruck infringements and offsides that are now prevalent in the game and were obvious early in the 6 again era (teams were happy very early on to give away a 6 again off a quick 20m tap to let the defense reset... there was absolutely no deterrent to pretty much giving away professional fouls).

The whole reason the 6 again was brought in was because of the tactical penalties inside the attacking 20m (thanks Roosters). Teams were forced to reset their attack every few tackles with no real disadvantage to the defence. Waving play on and conceding infinite tackles on your own line would be a far worse outcome for the defence.... To me they could've just solved the problem by actually using the sin bin because they were professional fouls.

Tactical penalties are prevalent everywhere in sport nowadays, but teams that concede them know they are running the risk of far greater consequences compared to a normal foul/penalty, yellow or red cards in soccer and clear path fouls in NBA. In the NRL professional fouls have existed forever... if a player is blatantly holding down or committing a penalty in a try scoring position (such as not square on your 1m), either bin them for a professional foul or give a penalty try... that would've stopped the constant penalties inside your own 20m pretty quickly, but the officials are too piss weak or not backed enough by the admin to do their actual job.


In regards to bringing scrums back for kicks into touch, this would allow teams to rest and reset if they're fatiguing and struggling to win the yardage game. There was no real reason to get rid of it as it's a 40sec halt to the game and isn't all that easily executed given the back 3 looking to defend it, but Vlando has made it seem like scrums are a death knell on rugby league, when they in fact represented the epitome of game management for a very well executed kick into touch

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The whole reason the 6 again was brought in was because of the tactical penalties inside the attacking 20m (thanks Roosters). Teams were forced to reset their attack every few tackles with no real disadvantage to the defence. Waving play on and conceding infinite tackles on your own line would be a far worse outcome for the defence.... To me they could've just solved the problem by actually using the sin bin because they were professional fouls.

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There's more to it than that. The Roosters were judged (even before Trent Robinson became coach) as ill disciplined, and they regularly lost penalty counts, even as they turned over personnel.

It appears Robinson took over and had the attitude that "well, if they are going to keep penalising us on our reputation (and Gould's vindictive commentary), then at least, let's be strategic in when we give them away".

Other teams have tried to copy this (including the Cowboys as Green brought this strategy from the Chooks). The problem is, it is not that simple to execute. Sure you get to reset your line, but without the right resolve/resilience, team's will eventually crack absorbing all of this pressure.

For a couple of years, the Cowboys had the fortune of Bennett coached teams wanting to take the 2 on offer (and we were happy to give up the two because we could score on the other end).

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“I believe I’m the best six at this club. I’m just doing my best week-in week-out to play No.6. That’s where I want to play.”

Scott 'Drinky' Drinkwater

 

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The thing that really gets me about these new rules is the way certain players in most teams give away grubby penalties, and get caught out, but do not think to change their behaviour. The bunker won't miss these things (unless they want to be naive), and the consequence of set re-starts is just a killer.

For years, I think coaches directed, and even recruited, their own grub each. It is so ingrained in some players to go out there and niggle, sledge and lie down in the ruck to slow things up. We all hate a Josh McGuire or Adam Blair until they play for our own team, and we realise we needed one. Fortunately, not anymore.

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“I believe I’m the best six at this club. I’m just doing my best week-in week-out to play No.6. That’s where I want to play.”

Scott 'Drinky' Drinkwater

 

[Will on the hill]

7 tackle sets should only be awarded for kicks that go dead from outside 40. It's ridiculous that a rule that was brought in to combat teams intentionally kicking the ball dead gets applied to knock ons over the line, grubbers from 10 out that clearly aren't intended to go dead and bombs that get caught on the full in goal.

Set restarts should only be used once the attacking team crosses their 40. Too much benefit to teams deliberately infringing against teams trying to get out of their own end.

Bring back scrums when the ball goes into touch. Too much benefit to teams that are happy to deliberately put the ball out of play so they can set a full defensive line.

 

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7 tackle sets should only be awarded for kicks that go dead
Set restarts should only be used once the attacking team crosses their 40. Too much benefit to teams deliberately infringing against teams trying to get out of their own end.

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40 nil 40 nil 40 nil

The reverse happens. It stops the Raiders from using their centres and wingers to milk piggy back penalties that march them up the field.

Rapana and Leilua etc used to be excellent at taking darts out of dummy, staging like they'd been hit by a truck, and letting the local Canberra ferals in the crowd scream for blood if the refs didn't blow the whistle.

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“I believe I’m the best six at this club. I’m just doing my best week-in week-out to play No.6. That’s where I want to play.”

Scott 'Drinky' Drinkwater

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

We've already seen what happens when an elite NRL team (Manly) vs a reserve grade team (Bulldogs)..

Even decent teams if they are out of form or having a bad day - Manly gave up 40 a couple of times at the start of the year, Souths have had 50 put on them twice, even the Chooks just lost by nearly 50-nil.
I actually love seeing long range tries but that doesn't make up for the lack of an actual contest. There has to be pressure over the result of the game otherwise it's as fascinating as watching a training run. Which I'd do about once, but not again! I used to like watching non-Manly games because I wasn't stressed about the outcome and just nice to see a good contest - but I've almost given that up at present.

 

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Revealed: Full extent of Covid ‘cover up’ as De Belin forced to front cops

Revealed: Full extent of Covid ‘cover up’ as De Belin forced to front cops

www.foxsports.com.au

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“I believe I’m the best six at this club. I’m just doing my best week-in week-out to play No.6. That’s where I want to play.”

Scott 'Drinky' Drinkwater

 

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Great must read on the state of the game. Share to your forums

https://pythagonrl.com/2021/07/04/its-not-just-the-six-again/

****, sometimes it seems like this guy is in my head, but then he has a million stats and figures to back it up. Great piece and really nails what I have been saying since Rd 3 2020 - Hill Sprints to start a marathon

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Something needs to be done to arrest the momentum, I know it's been discussed this season and people will say "not another change" but scoring team kicks off (like in the 97 SL season) is the way to go for mine.

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[simon64]

My take on the rule changes and what they've done to the game.

This is all designed to cater to the "Big Bash" generation who have the attention span of a gnat.

If tries aren't being constantly scored, the fear is they'll get bored and change channels. So along come a raft of rule changes designed to speed the game up and we end up with "rugba leeg".

I've long said the rules need to provide an even contest between attack and defence. Not skew the balance so much that defenders are chasing their own asses trying to keep up. It doesn't take skill when the opposition is so clagged they can't perform to their capacity.

In short, it's gone way too far and the result is teams getting lapped. Hopefully V'Landys has enough humility to admit they've effed up and fix it.

 

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My take on the rule changes and what they've done to the game.

This is all designed to cater to the "Big Bash" generation who have the attention span of a gnat.

If tries aren't being constantly scored, the fear is they'll get bored and change channels. So along come a raft of rule changes designed to speed the game up and we end up with "rugba leeg".

I've long said the rules need to provide an even contest between attack and defence. Not skew the balance so much that defenders are chasing their own asses trying to keep up. It doesn't take skill when the opposition is so clagged they can't perform to their capacity.

In short, it's gone way too far and the result is teams getting lapped. Hopefully V'Landys has enough humility to admit they've effed up and fix it.

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I fear Vlandys doesn't. He doesn't strike me as someone who can admit he's made an error.

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Great must read on the state of the game. Share to your forums

https://pythagonrl.com/2021/07/04/its-not-just-the-six-again/

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POSITION VACANT: Someone to replace Morkel as Digital Artist. Must be able to make signature of attractive football players once every 3-5 years. Will be paid in likes from time to time.

Great article with many good point but I think it misses some major ones.

Players have to be lighter to handle the fatigue and it has changed to a fast game rather than a power game. By default it is more attacking with more points, just from lower player weight and increased acceleration.

A team of explosive speedsters like the Storm will run rings around a traditional power based team. The power teams are dropping the weight but are still slow, while lacking the weight to hammer in defence or bust through in attack. You see players that were weapons becoming ineffective, while speed freaks like Walker and Walsh, who wouldn’t have seen first grade, are now able to thrive.

It’s also a test of squads rather than best top 17s. The new faster rules and leaner players directly results in more injuries. The better squads are prospering over teams with everything invested in their top team.

Even when all squads have been re-aligned to the rules, being attack based there will be a higher spread in scores.

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Smash em bro

 

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Great article with many good point but I think it misses some major ones.

Players have to be lighter to handle the fatigue and it has changed to a fast game rather than a power game. By default it is more attacking with more points, just from lower player weight and increased acceleration.

A team of explosive speedsters like the Storm will run rings around a traditional power based team. The power teams are dropping the weight but are still slow, while lacking the weight to hammer in defence or bust through in attack. You see players that were weapons becoming ineffective, while speed freaks like Walker and Walsh, who wouldn’t have seen first grade, are now able to thrive.

It’s also a test of squads rather than best top 17s. The new faster rules and leaner players directly results in more injuries. The better squads are prospering over teams with everything invested in their top team.

Even when all squads have been re-aligned to the rules, being attack based there will be a higher spread in scores.

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Smash em bro

It's a vicious cycle though.

Clubs will turn over their squads, only for the rules to change again.

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My take on the rule changes and what they've done to the game.

This is all designed to cater to the "Big Bash" generation who have the attention span of a gnat.

If tries aren't being constantly scored, the fear is they'll get bored and change channels. So along come a raft of rule changes designed to speed the game up and we end up with "rugba leeg".

I've long said the rules need to provide an even contest between attack and defence. Not skew the balance so much that defenders are chasing their own asses trying to keep up. It doesn't take skill when the opposition is so clagged they can't perform to their capacity.

In short, it's gone way too far and the result is teams getting lapped. Hopefully V'Landys has enough humility to admit they've effed up and fix it.

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Yes, and the answer all along was to simply ref the game to the rules that were in place. If high shots were correctly enforced, players would not be tackling so high, making the wrestle (one goes high to wrap the ball, one low to slow the forward movement) no longer a high percentage play. It means ball-carriers will either A) find the ground sooner, or B) Offload, which will inherently speed the game up. Furthermore, it would require the tacklers to improve their technique and solid cutting tackles and legs tackles would effectively be validated because A) they knock the ball-carrier down or backwards, or B) all effective tackles are granted the same 3 seconds on the ground rule, and there will be none of this discretionary "milking" or "surrender" bull****.

Essentially, rugby league was in a very good place and if the 2018 crackdown had persisted, we would have a clean and fast game without the wrestle. Honestly, if anything the only rule that needed adjustment was the 7 tackle set from a kick going dead in goal, wherein the attacking team yields control, 20 meters of field position and momentum because of a minor error in placement or power in an attacking kick. The whole point of the rule was to prevent the Soward style boot it from your 40m to get a rest and set the defensive line at 30m.

Honestly, the game just needs to take a minute and consider what their changes will do to the game and how a Big Bash style of sport is like all the new age commercialised fads. There is a reason why some things are classics and last for decades or centuries and why other things burn bright for a short time and then fade away.

I do not want Rugby League to fade away.

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Something needs to be done to arrest the momentum, I know it's been discussed this season and people will say "not another change" but scoring team kicks off (like in the 97 SL season) is the way to go for mine.

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I'm not sure it would achieve a whole lot.

Imagine a team kicking off after scoring a try, they'd be amped up to absolutely belt the opposition. On the other hand the team now receiving the ball has just conceded a try.

The pressure on them to complete the set and get to a kick would be huge, especially coming up against an amped up defensive line... there's a reason why teams like to kick off in golden point. It can very well give you a leg up on field position if you come with intent in the defensive line.

If the receiving team, who has just conceded a try, is getting belted with ball in hand and only make it to the 40m, suddenly the team that just scored can be up to the 30m or 40m line on tackle 1... it gets worse if the receiving team makes an error on the kick off set, which can be common place on sets after a try.

I think they will either change offsides back to being a full penalty... or they will just make ruck infringements and offsides penalties when it's inside your own half. That gives some reprieve to being able to compete in the field position battle and can provide a reset to halt momentum swings.

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One of the biggest points to me were the comments about it being a world cup year and if paid professionals in the NRL are getting walloped what is going to happen when the minnows come up against Australia or New Zealand.

Scores could blow out to 80 or 90+... how is that going to help create a foothold in international football ??

I think England could even get absolutely smashed.

I would've liked to see the international game stay as penalties instead of 6 agains. That could at least see what happens when 6 again NRL players go back to the penalty era and if there is a serious impact on quality or do things return to somewhat normalcy.

We've already seen what happens when an elite NRL team (Manly) vs a reserve grade team (Bulldogs).... what viewers are go to survive the group stages and even quarters/semis looking at 50 and 60 point margins.

The final could even be 50 or 60 plus, because let's face it Australia will comprise primarily NSW players whereas NZ may not be near that level

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Having a strong Kangaroo side built from a dominant State team is no guarantee Australia will win world cups.

Queensland fed the Roo sides that lost the WCs to NZ.

Aussie might not even get past Tonga depending on the draw.

I seriously doubt the NSW heavy Roos will offer anything the Kiwis will be scared of.

The problem is Australia brings its own reffs that is the laughable part about this sport.

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Having a strong Kangaroo side built from a dominant State team is no guarantee Australia will win world cups.

Queensland fed the Roo sides that lost the WCs to NZ.

Aussie might not even get past Tonga depending on the draw.

I seriously doubt the NSW heavy Roos will offer anything the Kiwis will be scared of.

The problem is Australia brings its own reffs that is the laughable part about this sport.

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Definitely agree on the ref ****. We should be getting an English ref for those games.

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Formerly Broncospwn

 

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My take on the rule changes and what they've done to the game.

This is all designed to cater to the "Big Bash" generation who have the attention span of a gnat.

If tries aren't being constantly scored, the fear is they'll get bored and change channels. So along come a raft of rule changes designed to speed the game up and we end up with "rugba leeg".

I've long said the rules need to provide an even contest between attack and defence. Not skew the balance so much that defenders are chasing their own asses trying to keep up. It doesn't take skill when the opposition is so clagged they can't perform to their capacity.

In short, it's gone way too far and the result is teams getting lapped. Hopefully V'Landys has enough humility to admit they've effed up and fix it.

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I am a basketball fan, and the same thing happens in the NBA today. The 3 point shooting revolution of the game has that 'wow' factor to part time fans and new fans as teams regularly make impossible shots (though it is ordinary viewing when they start missing them).

The issue is that there is absolutely no balance. There is no reward for defending players, or relying on scoring anywhere else but the perimeter. And the only defence you can do is wait until you get the ball to knock down your own 3.

Eventually, these attempts to turn the games into non-stop highlight reels will bore people as question 'what is the point of this game' when there is nothing but attempted flashy play at the expense of fundamentals.

I think the NRL should actually consider some plays to reward good defence, that still have enough excitement in them to keep the game thrilling. Whether it is a reward for a charge-down on a field goal or a reward for preventing a 40/20 or a reward for getting out of the in-goal etc.

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“I believe I’m the best six at this club. I’m just doing my best week-in week-out to play No.6. That’s where I want to play.”

Scott 'Drinky' Drinkwater