Conditioning

[Brisbane Tragic]

Poor line speed can inadvertently lead to all sorts of problems. Possession is not won and lost in a vacuum. Now this a hypothetical, but I’ll use it to explain what I mean - Take the Gutherson no try early in last night’s game for example. The Eels marched down field and were given an opportunity to kick from good field position. If it wasn’t for the push in the back, it would have been a try. We kick off and the Eels get another set that they wouldn’t have got if we’d stayed in the yardage battle with them. They March up over halfway and again kick to good field position and turn the forwards around; they fatigue some more. This fatigue leads to sloppy passing and/or a drop ball or incorrect play-the-ball.

Because it’s not a computer game, you can’t see an energy battery above each player’s head, but often (not always) the circumstances around one side having more possession are the result of fatigue and field position. Defending your own line saps heaps of energy. The opposition are also in position to earn repeat sets. The fatigue from defending impacts on the fluidity of the attack.
It’s all cyclical.

In saying all that, I was merely asking a question. I don’t know for certain if we have a conditioning problem or a tactical problem or an attitude problem...just curious.

Last night was obviously better but the number of offloads that the Eels were able to generate, suggests that our contact wasn’t consistently strong.

agreed our contact on hitting needs to improve plus our desire to shut down the supports BUT our conditioning was not an issue last night. We played great and were full of energy and willing to be in the griond for 80 minutes. THE real difference last night was that we controlled the footy from the first kickoff unlike the Broncos and previous games where we have stuffed up from the kick off or early on. We were struggling early with yardage and then got some possession and we never looked back. We still have bone heads making stupid errors and they are the same players each week - namely Keppie... every week and Harper... most weeks and then Marty every now and again. But our conditioning is not an issue... not our harmony... spirit... game plan... it is just about players playing error free and we are competitive and will be... even without Tom.

 

[jbb/james]

Poor line speed can inadvertently lead to all sorts of problems. Possession is not won and lost in a vacuum. Now this a hypothetical, but I’ll use it to explain what I mean - Take the Gutherson no try early in last night’s game for example. The Eels marched down field and were given an opportunity to kick from good field position. If it wasn’t for the push in the back, it would have been a try. We kick off and the Eels get another set that they wouldn’t have got if we’d stayed in the yardage battle with them. They March up over halfway and again kick to good field position and turn the forwards around; they fatigue some more. This fatigue leads to sloppy passing and/or a drop ball or incorrect play-the-ball.

Because it’s not a computer game, you can’t see an energy battery above each player’s head, but often (not always) the circumstances around one side having more possession are the result of fatigue and field position. Defending your own line saps heaps of energy. The opposition are also in position to earn repeat sets. The fatigue from defending impacts on the fluidity of the attack.
It’s all cyclical.

In saying all that, I was merely asking a question. I don’t know for certain if we have a conditioning problem or a tactical problem or an attitude problem...just curious.

Last night was obviously better but the number of offloads that the Eels were able to generate, suggests that our contact wasn’t consistently strong.

Possession like defence is an attitude the team either has or it doesn't

There seems to be a desire within the side to complete sets of 6 , but we are generally at the refs discretion , or the oppositions errors , to reverse the trend when its set for set. Top teams forcer errors by being relentless, respecting opposition , and playing a style of footy that usually offers reward over time

As soon as we gain a lead or get behind we go against that grain

This is an overall blurb and not necessarily a reflection of last night.

Last night
Frogs kick from dummy half was a cracker and chez kicked early maybe once as well . Teams make errors and getting them to make them in there half is very handy. We have defenders that can force errors but overall we look like a rabble with no real plan and rarely chase like the game depends on it

If we are going to end on the wrong side of possession we should kick , early , often and control that stat and field position to at least reduce the pressure on top of fatigue

One day the team has to understand its identity, its failures and that its approach will result as mid tier at best .

I thought we played better last night and deserved a win. That win may have made next week ugly as historicly we love to think we have turned the corner when the other team just took there hands off the wheel

 

[Snake]

agreed our contact on hitting needs to improve plus our desire to shut down the supports BUT our conditioning was not an issue last night. We played great and were full of energy and willing to be in the griond for 80 minutes. THE real difference last night was that we controlled the footy from the first kickoff unlike the Broncos and previous games where we have stuffed up from the kick off or early on. We were struggling early with yardage and then got some possession and we never looked back. We still have bone heads making stupid errors and they are the same players each week - namely Keppie... every week and Harper... most weeks and then Marty every now and again. But our conditioning is not an issue... not our harmony... spirit... game plan... it is just about players playing error free and we are competitive and will be... even without Tom.

I’m not convinced on last night’s game because statistically, Parra led in every department, it’s just that they couldn’t ice things in attack. I still didn’t see the kind of line speed and contact that will consistently trouble good sides. Our edges were pulled apart too easily as well. On a couple of occasions, it happened on the 5th tackle, after we’d defender our backsides off and that’s disappointing.

 

[Brisbane Tragic]

I’m not convinced on last night’s game because statistically, Parra led in every department, it’s just that they couldn’t ice things in attack. I still didn’t see the kind of line speed and contact that will consistently trouble good sides. Our edges were pulled apart too easily as well. On a couple of occasions, it happened on the 5th tackle, after we’d defender our backsides off and that’s disappointing.

yes agreed but the penalties were 8 to 2 or something against and I am sure the 6 again's were not in our favour. So again if it was conditioning letting us down.... we would have been blown out of the water with that lopsided amount of ball. We had a red hot go last night and it wasn't conditioning that cost us. Keppie's dumb offside penalty is what killed us. Harper's dumb tackle the kicker after the kick just threw more dirt on the grave. The referring was diabolical but we should all see the guys really played with heart last night as well as some pretty decent skill levels... our completion rate was pretty damn good and if we can do that, get some troops back (Paseka, Parker, Lawton) AND sign Lodge to replace one of those fraudulent props we will do ok even without Tom. Our line speed certainly needs to be better - that is for sure. Something that has gone out of the game. Maybe I am a dinosaur but racing up off the line to put a shot on is one of the very very best feelings... it is an art but it seems in today's game it is coached out of the players I gather and not many players have the tackling technique to do it anyway I suppose. But yes you can't get a bigger rush than that in my old decrepit mind.

 

[Woodsie]

Poor line speed can inadvertently lead to all sorts of problems. Possession is not won and lost in a vacuum. Now this a hypothetical, but I’ll use it to explain what I mean - Take the Gutherson no try early in last night’s game for example. The Eels marched down field and were given an opportunity to kick from good field position. If it wasn’t for the push in the back, it would have been a try. We kick off and the Eels get another set that they wouldn’t have got if we’d stayed in the yardage battle with them. They March up over halfway and again kick to good field position and turn the forwards around; they fatigue some more. This fatigue leads to sloppy passing and/or a drop ball or incorrect play-the-ball.

Because it’s not a computer game, you can’t see an energy battery above each player’s head, but often (not always) the circumstances around one side having more possession are the result of fatigue and field position. Defending your own line saps heaps of energy. The opposition are also in position to earn repeat sets. The fatigue from defending impacts on the fluidity of the attack.
It’s all cyclical.

In saying all that, I was merely asking a question. I don’t know for certain if we have a conditioning problem or a tactical problem or an attitude problem...just curious.

Last night was obviously better but the number of offloads that the Eels were able to generate, suggests that our contact wasn’t consistently strong.

You have come up with an hypothesis .. and are now rearranging facts to suit it ... you could equally well argue that the players that have long eyebrows are carrying more weight and suffer from additional wind resistance ..

Early possession dominance can, and is caused by a number of factors .. a team appearing to become gassed is a symptom of this ... not a root cause ..

In fact, one could argue that given the number of times it has happened to manly because of dumb errors ... the extra workload each week has made us one of the fitter sides .. but then I have no evidence of this .. it just sounds good.

 

[Snake]

yes agreed but the penalties were 8 to 2 or something against and I am sure the 6 again's were not in our favour. So again if it was conditioning letting us down.... we would have been blown out of the water with that lopsided amount of ball. We had a red hot go last night and it wasn't conditioning that cost us. Keppie's dumb offside penalty is what killed us. Harper's dumb tackle the kicker after the kick just threw more dirt on the grave. The referring was diabolical but we should all see the guys really played with heart last night as well as some pretty decent skill levels... our completion rate was pretty damn good and if we can do that, get some troops back (Paseka, Parker, Lawton) AND sign Lodge to replace one of those fraudulent props we will do ok even without Tom. Our line speed certainly needs to be better - that is for sure. Something that has gone out of the game. Maybe I am a dinosaur but racing up off the line to put a shot on is one of the very very best feelings... it is an art but it seems in today's game it is coached out of the players I gather and not many players have the tackling technique to do it anyway I suppose. But yes you can't get a bigger rush than that in my old decrepit mind.

I don’t want one or two players rushing out of the line, I’m talking about Penrith and Melbourne, who all push up hard and limit the opposition time with the ball. We sit back and wait.

In saying that, I’m not certain we have a conditioning problem, was just questioning it. I appreciate your thoughtful response.

 

[Snake]

You have come up with an hypothesis .. and are now rearranging facts to suit it ... you could equally well argue that the players that have long eyebrows are carrying more weight and suffer from additional wind resistance ..

Early possession dominance can, and is caused by a number of factors .. a team appearing to become gassed is a symptom of this ... not a root cause ..

In fact, one could argue that given the number of times it has happened to manly because of dumb errors ... the extra workload each week has made us one of the fitter sides .. but then I have no evidence of this .. it just sounds good.

Happy to talk footy with you, but let’s just discuss the mechanics of the game. I’m more than open to other opinions....like I said, I’m just questioning. I’m not fixed to idea.

I do however, get frustrated when coaches, commentators and fans discuss possession like it’s a lottery. The team that has the lion’s share of possession are usually the team that are playing better. Thus, a myriad of reasons determine the flow of possession.

 

[Brisbane Tragic]

I don’t want one or two players rushing out of the line, I’m talking about Penrith and Melbourne, who all push up hard and limit the opposition time with the ball. We sit back and wait.

In saying that, I’m not certain we have a conditioning problem, was just questioning it. I appreciate your thoughtful response.

See... I love the rushing up on someone's blindside where they have no idea you are coming... but it means you have to be someone who can take the runner on and finish the tackle yourself... and that requires great technique. I saw a couple of our guys - Jake and Aloiai do it last night but those two can tackle. But yes I love line speed of the whole defence pushing up but if you can have a lone pilot head out who can actually smash someone - you also get the bonus at times of a dropped pill and generally it really energises the defensive line when someone rushes out and puts a shot on.

 

[Snake]

See... I love the rushing up on someone's blindside where they have no idea you are coming... but it means you have to be someone who can take the runner on and finish the tackle yourself... and that requires great technique. I saw a couple of our guys - Jake and Aloiai do it last night but those two can tackle. But yes I love line speed of the whole defence pushing up but if you can have a lone pilot head out who can actually smash someone - you also get the bonus at times of a dropped pill.

Aloiai didn’t play big minutes last night but gee he was effective when he was on.

 

[Brisbane Tragic]

Aloiai didn’t play big minutes last night but gee he was effective when he was on.

He is great quality - attack and defence... Sadly our other props besides Paseka (on his day and they are few and far between) are just plain ordinary!

 

[CRPSI eagle]

Surely it's the errors that have us defending constantly from the start. It's discipline rather than fitness. But I can't, for the life of me, figure why we have such rubbish discipline.
How does that happen in a team?

Every week same ****!

 

[CryingEagle]

Exactly Snake, the big questions are why doesn't Des see it and if he does, why doesn't he do something about it

I don’t have faith in Des

 

[CryingEagle]

dessie does like to time his run. many teams like the dragons fly out of the blocks every season only to drift. there are many reasons for this but until the season is dusted it will be hard to tell if this was a plan. his best seasons have had timing all over them and he has been on record many times mentioning it

no doubt we look off the pace in many areas. our line speed for sure which is also a symptom of controlling or losing the ruck

I think we have been a bit prop heavy for a while and our back row doesnt have the same effectiveness as other teams and always seems in balanced. there are no destructive runs from oku who seems to be able to beat men in traffic but rarely gets the opportunity to wind up in space

jake slows our middle and cramps our edges as we stack halves, backrower, centre and wing into tight spaces too often and still want tom to chime in between. its a short ball tactic with quick hands but only foran and parker execute this . our back row work very hard and are great players but we get little out of them in attack

our starts can be diabolical and not just kick offs and too often heaps pressure on the defence and team, which is mentally brittle to begin with. the players in this side have been subjected to very little footy that could be considered " the grind" so mentally havnt tested themselves in prolonged defence and still won the game. this is pretty important in all sports to absorb and win, we are kings of absorb and lose but havnt found the other path enough to consider it part of the teams make up

Timing your run means you are at least competitive in your games. We have been embarrassing in half our games