Coaching appointments, and vision

[jbb/james]

Wether or not its nathan brown, Nate myles, the fainu brothers or the resigning of DCE. The major recruitment issue i see is our club has not vested in a long term plan on the field, in the structures and coaching staff. Too often coaches are the scape goats or pawns with survival rather than growth as the number 1 agenda item

nurturing juniors, maybe sacrificing a year or 2 to get the cap right, but coaches rarely get a real chance

.Short term singings, and tactics to appease short term goals, sometimes personal like the structure of dessies contract is costing us overall. In hindsight the Penn and dessie MK II was destined to smash the club again but appeasement to fans rather than a long term strategy, possibly due to having a revolving door of CEO’s decides our mediocrity

seibs seems to be building more than a team , or at least thats the story being conveyed but we have to stick at it

as for recruitment
DCE on brooks money, the fainus on DCE‘s coin and Nathan Browns money or letting DCE go were probably better long term plans but the reset button has been pushed on seibs coaching career And did we get hoodwinked by fulton deluxe in the dce / fainus signings, only time will tell

dessies selections of trying to get top 6 and top 4 was a little counter productive in his selections and seemed almost a monetary decision on a personal level in hindsight

another mystery that needs solving is why we signed up DCE so early and for how much. Who owned that

 

[Pepi]

The young half you mention was stood down for a few weeks from playing/training in all grades early in 2023 and was encouraged to get his attitude right. Would it make any sense to cut our hard working captain for an untested kid with a questionable attitude?

DCE on 600k is also laughable. Any other team would move heaven and earth to take him if he was on the market.

 

[Ryan]

Wether or not its nathan brown, Nate myles, the fainu brothers or the resigning of DCE. The major recruitment issue i see is our club has not vested in a long term plan on the field, in the structures and coaching staff. Too often coaches are the scape goats or pawns with survival rather than growth as the number 1 agenda item

nurturing juniors, maybe sacrificing a year or 2 to get the cap right, but coaches rarely get a real chance

.Short term singings, and tactics to appease short term goals, sometimes personal like the structure of dessies contract is costing us overall. In hindsight the Penn and dessie MK II was destined to smash the club again but appeasement to fans rather than a long term strategy, possibly due to having a revolving door of CEO’s decides our mediocrity

seibs seems to be building more than a team , or at least thats the story being conveyed but we have to stick at it

as for recruitment
DCE on brooks money, the fainus on DCE‘s coin and Nathan Browns money or letting DCE go were probably better long term plans but the reset button has been pushed on seibs coaching career And did we get hoodwinked by fulton deluxe in the dce / fainus signings, only time will tell

dessies selections of trying to get top 6 and top 4 was a little counter productive in his selections and seemed almost a monetary decision on a personal level in hindsight

another mystery that needs solving is why we signed up DCE so early and for how much. Who owned that

Our recruitment is our Achilles heel, I 100% agree. We are unbalanced. We have an abundance of mediocre, and not enough elite to compete with the Storms, Panthers & possibly even The Broncos now. Our elites are also always unfortunately injured or out for some reason (Schuster with form for example).


We need a Ben Ikin type director of football brought in to oversee that cap / roster, and make some very difficult decisions, player & staffing wise. If it means releasing fan favorites, so be it if it improves us.


I think we've found our spot right now, 9th - 12th on the ladder - and I don't see that changing much with the forwards / hookers we have at the club right now.

 

[rosco]

The young half you mention was stood down for a few weeks from playing/training in all grades early in 2023 and was encouraged to get his attitude right. Would it make any sense to cut our hard working captain for an untested kid with a questionable attitude?

DCE on 600k is also laughable. Any other team would move heaven and earth to take him if he was on the market.

I haven't seen a definite amount that DCE was resigned for. I saw one amount of $1.2mill which I think is just quoting what he was on in 2023. I would hope that he accepted somewhere around $700K - 800K a year based on the fact he is 34 and Manly have paid him around $10 mill over the last decade.

 

[eagleron]

Our recruitment is our Achilles heel, I 100% agree. We are unbalanced. We have an abundance of mediocre, and not enough elite to compete with the Storms, Panthers & possibly even The Broncos now. Our elites are also always unfortunately injured or out for some reason (Schuster with form for example).


We need a Ben Ikin type director of football brought in to oversee that cap / roster, and make some very difficult decisions, player & staffing wise. If it means releasing fan favorites, so be it if it improves us.


I think we've found our spot right now, 9th - 12th on the ladder - and I don't see that changing much with the forwards / hookers we have at the club right now.

I'm a little more positive than 9th - 12th mate, I reckon Brooks will sharpen our attack and if we can keep Turbo on the park, possibly move Koula to the left side with Garrick on the right our attack will be much sharper, at the end of last year Paseka and Sipley were becoming a force and with Hamoule and Schuster together I think we've got the second row sorted providing that Schuster can improve his turnstile defence, then there's Aloia, Jurbo, Burbo and Bully, so I'm definitely expecting better things consistently this coming season, I expect that providing the injury gods treat us kindly that we can be very involved come the pointy end, just my opinion but I'm quietly confident, GO MANLY 😊

 

[double hoops]

Pre season is always tough to judge. There is a lot of clubs that should be way better.

It's funny that often a team that goes on to be big improves often jump out of the box in round 1.

Ie the donkey's beating an understrength Panthers last year.

Whilst a good preseason is essential.

A good start to the year to build that self belief amongst the team clearly matters.

 

[Ryan]

I'm a little more positive than 9th - 12th mate, I reckon Brooks will sharpen our attack and if we can keep Turbo on the park, possibly move Koula to the left side with Garrick on the right our attack will be much sharper, at the end of last year Paseka and Sipley were becoming a force and with Hamoule and Schuster together I think we've got the second row sorted providing that Schuster can improve his turnstile defence, then there's Aloia, Jurbo, Burbo and Bully, so I'm definitely expecting better things consistently this coming season, I expect that providing the injury gods treat us kindly that we can be very involved come the pointy end, just my opinion but I'm quietly confident, GO MANLY 😊

Good points about Sips and Paseka mate. Know who I think may be our (or CLOSE to our) best forward this season going by last seasons eye test? Bullemor. I love everything about this man, and I actually think he should be a smokey for that QLD origin team, before some of the plonkers they pick.

Also want to say, I hope you're right and I'm wrong (which is the case most of the time hahaha). To have a successful year (this will sound pathetic to so many people), it would be SO helpful to my mental health, in so many ways.

Guess that why I'm so loyal to guys like Choc, Bullet, Skivy, Hoppa & so many others who's amazing accomplishments have helped me through so many rough times.

 

[double hoops]

Agree re Bull.

 

[maxta]

What I will say is Manly are going hard NOW, to try win a Premiership
It's not a Long term plan, the players let go and purchased are a Short term plan for basically instant success.
This is even recognised by some who are now signed elsewhere.
Not sure if will be a Winning plan, but that's what it is.
I hope it works out.

 

[Eagles4Life]

Our recruitment is our Achilles heel, I 100% agree. We are unbalanced. We have an abundance of mediocre, and not enough elite to compete with the Storms, Panthers & possibly even The Broncos now. Our elites are also always unfortunately injured or out for some reason (Schuster with form for example).


We need a Ben Ikin type director of football brought in to oversee that cap / roster, and make some very difficult decisions, player & staffing wise. If it means releasing fan favorites, so be it if it improves us.


I think we've found our spot right now, 9th - 12th on the ladder - and I don't see that changing much with the forwards / hookers we have at the club right now.

I agree, @Ryan , that our retention and recruitment strategy has left us with an unbalanced squad in recent times. It was certainly the case last season. However, I can also see some real (positive) changes in the balance of our 2024 squad. It's not so much the quality of the individual players we have picked up but the depth these players provide us in all positions except (arguably) hooker. Even the hooker position has seen us pick up some realistic depth options over the offseason, to go with GCKT and JH. I disagree with you on where we will finish this season, though. I have us in sixth or seventh comfortably. If things, (Mainly that Turbo stays injury-free, Schuster plays his heart out at back row, and Brooks consistently unlocks our attack), fall into place for us, we might even go top four. Stranger things have happened in the NRL. Go Manly.

 

[Rocky]

The young half you mention was stood down for a few weeks from playing/training in all grades early in 2023 and was encouraged to get his attitude right. Would it make any sense to cut our hard working captain for an untested kid with a questionable attitude?

DCE on 600k is also laughable. Any other team would move heaven and earth to take him if he was on the market.

Based on DCE's form last year he would command $1m a year comfortably on the open market. Things do get murkier given his age, but $2m for 2 years of DCE would seem fair value. Hopefully Manly has him on less than that.

There is too much fixation on DCE and Jake and their salaries. They play nearly every game, produce at a high level and are Australian players.

The real problem is the 25% of the salary cap in Turbo, Schuster, and Aloiai which we got minimal return on last year. Those guys combined earn roughly the same as Nathan Cleary, Liam Martin, and Dylan Edwards. That puts it in context about how hamstrung (pun intended) Manly was when 3 out of their top 6 or 7 paid players aren't on the field, or playing busted.

 

[Phobia]

I think with these predictions you have to consider what occured to the Warriors - nearly no changes to their roster, with their supporters predicting them coming 8th at best, and they ultimately went into the top 4. We could be anywhere from 3-14 in my view. I wouldn't be making predictions just yet. Our forwards look a bit better imo, and GCKT looks very promising, so not all bad in all departments. That said, Aloiai better bloody perform well in LV.

 

[Brookie Bob]

Good points about Sips and Paseka mate. Know who I think may be our (or CLOSE to our) best forward this season going by last seasons eye test? Bullemor. I love everything about this man, and I actually think he should be a smokey for that QLD origin team, before some of the plonkers they pick.

Also want to say, I hope you're right and I'm wrong (which is the case most of the time hahaha). To have a successful year (this will sound pathetic to so many people), it would be SO helpful to my mental health, in so many ways.

Guess that why I'm so loyal to guys like Choc, Bullet, Skivy, Hoppa & so many others who's amazing accomplishments have helped me through so many rough times.

'From Roy Bull - to Ethan Bullemor - Manly's forward heritage - not a backward step' - sounds like a good slogan to me.
Hopefully not just 'more bull'......

 

[Brookie Bob]

Siebold can look at / work on the following in 2024:

SEA EAGLES

2023

Metres gained: 1398 (12th)

Metres conceded: 1462 (6th)

Tries: 3.92 (9th)


Tries conceded: 4.00 (8th)

Linebreaks: 5.21 (5th)

Linebreaks conceded: 5.04 (7th)

Completions: 79.58 (7th)

2022

Metres gained: 1329 (12th)


Metres conceded: 1439 (8th)

Tries: 3.58 (10th)

Tries conceded: 4.42 (5th)

Linebreaks: 4.67 (8th)

Linebreaks conceded: 4.38 (9th)

Completions: 79.03 (6th)


Analysis: The Sea Eagles signalled a new era under Anthony Seibold, but what they produced ended up being very similar to what Des Hasler delivered in his final year at the helm, as they again suffered without their star player Tom Trbojevic. Manly stayed relatively the same in metres gained, metres conceded, tries and completions. They improved from fifth to eighth in tries conceded, but that was cancelled out by going from ninth to seventh in linebreaks conceded.

Key stat: Since 2020, the Sea Eagles have won over 60 per cent of their matches when Tom Trbojevic plays, but just under 35 per cent when he is missing. He has played just 43 of their 95 games over that period.

Key to Broncos rise revealed; Eels’ Achilles heel laid bare: Where every NRL team rank

We crunched the numbers over past two seasons. Here’s where every NRL team ranks

www.foxsports.com.au

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

My view is this.

No great changes, but Brooks to partner DCE is a very good move, so those saying our recruitment is crap are a little off the mark.

We are year 2 into the Seibold era, if he indeed is going to improve things it will start to show in this year, if we go backwards we will know that's been a failure.

Our forwards are another year older (which isn't a bad thing ) and you have to say there was a good deal of improvement in some last year so I'd expect that to pay dividends in 2024.

I won't bother with Tommy, we all know the score there.

The big question, and mores to the point the big dollar question is Schuster, honestly who knows but if he fails we have backup BUT that's an awful lot of dollars sitting on the sideline ( which goes back to why recruitment may have been a little crap).

Honestly we could finish anywhere, 3rd, 4th , 5th-8th , or easily stay in the exact position as we did last year.

I just cannot see us going backwards, but how far forwards is possibly in the hands of the injury gods.

 

[Tragic Eagle]

I like the approach this season. We have improved our depth and systems. Competition for positions is key and improves performance. I always believed players should be picked on form and effort at training not on reputation. Nepotism breeds discontent which leads to a fractured group.

 

[Oligarch]

Fair point on the short term-isn, cause if we miss the finals again this year, can’t help to think there will be a heap of pressure on Seibold. Wonder if he survives to year 3.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

Fair point on the short term-isn, cause if we miss the finals again this year, can’t help to think there will be a heap of pressure on Seibold. Wonder if he survives to year 3.

Doubtful, as that’s the pressure put on coaches today , no appetite for the long term view , all about getting the job done , now.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

As it’s the off season I think I can be forgiven in bringing in a cricket discussion to a Rugby League forum ( well I hope so anyway ).

But just this week , after an 11 year gap , the Brisbane Heat won BBL number 13.

Now yes , I know it’s hit & giggle but the analogy with the Sea Eagles is a good one.

The Heat have been perennial losers , banking everything on one major player ( who occasionally won games by himself ) but largely failing ( sound familiar ).

They always never quite got the squad right , at times having good batsman but then **** bowlers ( or the reverse ).

But then in 2021/2 they drew a line in the sand , let go of some underperforming players , brought up some youngsters and went hunting for a more balanced squad.

2022/3 saw a resurgence , so much so they got to the final but lost to a red hot side from WA who had been consistent champions

And in 2023/24 with almost exactly the same squad they blitzed the year , losing only one game ( a nothing game in WA where they rested some players ).

What happened over time is players they’d hoped would improve , did in fact improve and those brought in completed what was needed to win the whole thing.

Now, if you look at this analogy the Sea Eagles have / are largely doing the same thing so I do believe we are on the right track , and this year will see an improvement, and if that happens 2025 could be a big year for us.

Just my opinion anyway !!