Clean Out

[Mataiforever]

No problem, just trying to understand your point mate. So these 5-7 players on top 30 money are young guys with no FG experience then plus the 6 devel players? Isn't that what we already have?

If you were to replace our #23-#30 players who are they and who would you replace them with? These 5-7 guys are all minimum wage by the way.

Fair mate all good, cheers, sorry if my response sounded a bit arsey

My point isnt a mass save point its just that youd have Sipley, Boyle etc around that 23rd squad member mark on about 200k. Minimum wage is 105k from memory (i could be wrong here - please tell me if I am)... and the extra couple hundred really makes a difference I think considered how stretched our squad is from our good players taking up big coin. With good recruitment the difference between a 250k winger and a 400k winger is a lot. We only need one proper good outside back to change the fortunes of the team in my eyes, in combination with good team selection.

The thing I struggle to comprehend is how our 3 great players supposedly shrink our cap so much when the same happens to most other clubs yet they still have money.

look at the Tigers -They are always in the news for having “heaps of cash to splash”. They have Josh Reynolds, Russell Packer, Moses Mbye and Joey Leilua taking up roughly 2.2-2.4m.

The difference between Morgan Boyle off the be ch & Jorge Taufua/Brendan Elliott starting compared to Zac Saddler off the bench and Alex Johnston startitng is pretty huge in my eyes. Again just comes down to recruitment and list management I guess, with a mix of backing our youth.

 

[40 years an eagle]

The thing I struggle to comprehend is how our 3 great players supposedly shrink our cap so much when the same happens to most other clubs yet they still have money.

look at the Tigers -They are always in the news for having “heaps of cash to splash”. They have Josh Reynolds, Russell Packer, Moses Mbye and Joey Leilua taking up roughly 2.2-2.4m.

"Other" teams have big money TPA's and benefactors with heavy pockets and a paper bag account at their local IGA.

I imagine the Rorters add 2-3 million annually to the cap, 3 or 4 other clubs 1-2 M. For example, the Rorters have about 2M worth of wingers.

Us, maybe 300k in TPA'a.

We spend about 6M of our probable 10.2M on 9 of our 30 players.

 

[HoldenV8]

For what its worth, this is what I think is our best 17 when everyone is available. Can it be improved? Of course it can, but for the squad we currently have this is who I'd be picking if all were available. Unfortunately this 17 won't see the park together this year.

Tom Trbojevic
Reuben Garrick
Brad Parker
Dylan Walker
Moses Suli
Cade Cust
Daly Cherry-Evans
Addin Fonua-Blake
Manase Fainu (Danny Levi)
Martin Taupau
Joel Thompson
Curtis Sironen
Jake Trbojevic.

Bench - Lachlan Croker, Morgan Boyle, Taniela Paseka, Sean Keppie

 

[Waz13]

For what its worth, this is what I think is our best 17 when everyone is available. Can it be improved? Of course it can, but for the squad we currently have this is who I'd be picking if all were available. Unfortunately this 17 won't see the park together this year.

Tom Trbojevic
Reuben Garrick
Brad Parker
Dylan Walker
Moses Suli
Cade Cust
Daly Cherry-Evans
Addin Fonua-Blake
Manase Fainu (Danny Levi)
Martin Taupau
Joel Thompson
Curtis Sironen
Jake Trbojevic.

Bench - Lachlan Croker, Morgan Boyle, Taniela Paseka, Sean Keppie

If tgat side could string games together and build combos it’s a very good side. I’ve always been a fan of Jorge, but he’s just getting exposed too much these days.

 

[susan]

"Other" teams have big money TPA's and benefactors with heavy pockets and a paper bag account at their local IGA.

I imagine the Rorters add 2-3 million annually to the cap, 3 or 4 other clubs 1-2 M. For example, the Rorters have about 2M worth of wingers.

Us, maybe 300k in TPA'a.

We spend about 6M of our probable 10.2M on 9 of our 30 players.

I think the point Matai is trying to make is that if you have injuries and you know your second tier players are plodders who won’t win you games then you may as well have very speculative young guys on the roster with possible upside at least for the same money.
I agree with that in the perfect world but the issue is that we have a coach who ( rightly or wrongly) is very loyal to the blokes many see as plodders.

 

[Tragic Eagle]

Plodders don't win premierships. We are dinosaurs and not evolving whilst other sides are blooding new young stars and playing a very different breed of football to ours. Saturday night was a reality check.

 

[Simonmyers11]

I think the two weak spots are Wing and Second Row.( I would count hooker but I'm really hoping we get Faniu back)

Off Contract 2020 players i would make inquiries are

Wing - Saab. Similar statue to Tom T. Could be a superstar on wing. Wants out apparently

Second Row - Baily Siro. Been watching him play and he looks great now. Runs good likes, mobile, quick play the balls and I think we only get better.

Then counting on Hoppa Jr, Shuster, Quac, Sipley, Harper, Cust to replace players like Elliot, Jorge, Parker, Crocker,

 

[HoldenV8]

If tgat side could string games together and build combos it’s a very good side. I’ve always been a fan of Jorge, but he’s just getting exposed too much these days.

The problem is that the 17 I named simply won't see the light of day as one side, not even for one game. It won't this year because his shoulder infection has put Fainu on the sidelines even if we do manage to get his stand down overturned. And it can't be used in 2021 because at the very least we are losing Thommo to St Helens.

 

[swoop]

Wasn't Nico Hynes playing in our lower grades a few years ago? If we were to go after someone it should be him. He's got Papenhuyzen in front of him. A back up fullback who could play centre or wing and is also a goalkicker.

 

[Highflier]

Wasn't Nico Hynes playing in our lower grades a few years ago? If we were to go after someone it should be him. He's got Papenhuyzen in front of him. A back up fullback who could play centre or wing and is also a goalkicker.

yes you are correct maybe in 2015/16 ?

 

[Simonmyers11]

Not many off contact this year, about half the side off contract next year so will get a good idea the future they are trying to build

 

[Rackets]

I think with the new rules and the speed of the game now it is almost similar to how the lower grades were played, more about attack than defense. We have not adjusted. Therefore wouldn't it make more sense to use those players like the Hoppas, Burbos and the Schusters who were superstars in those grades? I get this is first grade but why Des persists with some of the current players (injuries aside) with their poor form and the season hanging on a thread still baffles me. They call him the mad professor, try something crazy Des!!

 

[swoop]

Every other coach plays a few rookies when there's injuries or players out of form but our coach is reluctant. You only have to look at Oka last night, he was probably our best player. They bring enthusiasm. Time to blood some young blokes and give them hope before they are snapped up by rivals.

 

[Bring back the.... Biff?]

Croker
Parker
Garrick
Slowfua
Jetski
Elliot

None would make any other side in the comp. Sack em all

 

[simon64]

We are carrying too many guys that just fill a jersey. And as long as that continues we will not threaten.

Croker does 10 sh1t things for every mildly good thing he does. I can't stand watching him anymore.

Every time Waddell, Keppie, Jetski or Boyle hit it up, I'm just waiting for them to lose it.

Levi I like. He's tough and will make a good back up to Fainu.

I don't remember the last time we were linked to anyone of any quality.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Just had a thought, prompted by the proliferation of comments about the various alleged major shortcomings in the strength of our current playing squad.

Well, I just wondered ... what would have happened if Brett Stewart had those injuries in 2007 and 2008, instead of in 2009 and 2010?

For what its worth, I think our 2020 squad would have been pretty good if a) we'd had reserve grade so a bunch of our inexperienced players could be improving; and b) Fainu, Turbo and Walker were mostly fit and available. Or at least one of them!!

Relying on Fainu as our only specialist hooker was absurd, especially in hindsight knowing he now can't play a single game. Likewise we gambled and lost with mediocre back-up for Turbo and Walker.

However I don't think we need to throw the bub out with the bathwater. For next year we need to add a decent hooker, and preferably a tall fast winger who can competently cover fullback. If Hoppa Jnr comes good (and stays here) then we just need a decent hooker.

 

[susan]

Just had a thought, prompted by the proliferation of comments about the various alleged major shortcomings in the strength of our current playing squad.

Well, I just wondered ... what would have happened if Brett Stewart had those injuries in 2007 and 2008, instead of in 2009 and 2010?

For what its worth, I think our 2020 squad would have been pretty good if a) we'd had reserve grade so a bunch of our inexperienced players could be improving; and b) Fainu, Turbo and Walker were mostly fit and available. Or at least one of them!!

Relying on Fainu as our only specialist hooker was absurd, especially in hindsight knowing he now can't play a single game. Likewise we gambled and lost with mediocre back-up for Turbo and Walker.

However I don't think we need to throw the bub out with the bathwater. For next year we need to add a decent hooker, and preferably a tall fast winger who can competently cover fullback. If Hoppa Jnr comes good (and stays here) then we just need a decent hooker.

SE8 I think the comments are directed at the shortcomings of the players who are actually CONSIDERED for selection, not the entire squad.

I just can’t understand a philosophy whereby Metcalfe Shuster and Hoppa are given a top 30 spot yet seem to be regarded as kids who aren’t up to a shot at first grade yet. If that’s the case give them the development contracts ffs. Guys in the top 30 need to be ready to play , especially with our injury history stretching back years.

The ONLY way any of our young guys get a go is through a massive injury toll. I would bet my life that Guaca and Funa would not have played a game this year if we had a good injury run.

It does not make sense.
If Parker plays next week that will do me. Funa looked good , has so much more upside and Brad needs a break for his own health.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Yeah I agree about Parker, needs more time off anyway. Even though he was showing some form late last year he can't improve his game when he's getting KO'd every second week. Funa must stay. Haumole too, must stay in the 17, couldn't have done much more than he did.

I still think Hoppa and Schuster will debut soon, but maybe I'm just a cock-eyed optimist.

 

[Mataiforever]

Manly 2021
Coach: Toovey

1 Trbojevic
2 Saab +
3 Staggs +
4 Suli
5 Garrick
6 Cust
7 Cherry-Evans
8 Fonua-Blake
9 Fainu
10 Welch +
11 Olakau’atu
12 Sironen
13 Trbojevic

14 Lino +
15 Schuster
16 Keppie
17 Paseka

18 Parker
19 Funa
20 Harper
21 Stone +
22 Boyle
23 Levi
24 Sipley
25 Titmuss
26 Saddler
27 Smalley
28 Dockar-Clay
29 Trbojevic
30 Metcalf

Sell: Marty& Dylan for 1.1-1.2m cap space. Bring in Welch and Staggs on 500kish each. Marty really isnt worth the 750k for penalties, lost balls from offloads and the like. Welch much more reliable with impact from Keppie and Paseka off bench.

Clean out: Jorge, Elliott, Waddell & Gosiewski to Dogs, Elliott, Thompson leaving anyways.

Bring in some depth: Lino for Cust& Fainu cover. Ray Stone for 2row cover. Saab to take Taufua’s jersey for good.

Oh, and Hasler - Out. Tooves - In.

Bring in Koula, Weekes, Fainu in development contracts. And that other Fulkback, can’t remember his name.

 

[madmax]

It has now become apparent from playing the teams above us on the ladder that we are not dynamic enough for the "new" game.

We are slow through our forwards but don't have enough mongrel to hurt anyone to negate it. We may have a good defensive pack but we are probably among the least feared. We don't have any speed or leg-drive so we are not bending the line, let alone breaking it. When was the last time one of our forward "came of the back fence" like some in every other team do? Forwards can still control this new game but ours won't. We are just not "mobile" enough. We don't hurt anyone so they either get quick play-the- ball's or we try to slow it down and get pinged for a set restart. Special mention to Jake for his 4 yesterday..3 in 5 minutes.
No speed, no intent = no line bending and no space for our halves and backs as a consequence.

We have no pace in our backs and that just will not work without space. We need to fix at least one of those 2 problems, probably both if are to compete.

It MAY be possible to turn it around in the forwards with the roster we have but our "choice" pack just does not show what is needed.

Our "choice" backline is nowhere near fast enough...even with Tom playing. The backs we play are not suited to the "new" game and without space created by our pack are just plain snails.

I am no expert but surely Des sees all this and it is up to him to fix it...either WITH our current roster or with a new one. This roster may have worked before the NRL sprung this new game on Des but it looks like it is going to stay and this roster ain't gonna do diddly squat if it does.

Love you like a brother Horhay but the new game has passed you by. Breaks my heart.
Elliot is not big enough or strong enough.
Funa is not up with the new fast young guys. Sorry.
Suli needs clean ball and space. He doesn't get any.
Parker is just not fast enough and gets hurt a LOT. Could stay as our ONE slow guy.
Garrick does not get the ball the new young guys do. Cheap keeper if he kicks goals better.
Walker...I have never felt the love. Is not a 6 and has been a liability for 3 years.
Cust has done OK. Meh.

Lolololol.....AFB & Marty don’t bend the line??? What do you call post contact meters? Not bending the line? Both are right up there with post contact meters so to say they’re slow & don’t bend the line makes me laugh! AFB voted best prop in the game by his peers & Marty along with AFB voted best prop pairing but they don’t bend the line!