Centres and Halves

[jbb/james]

just my opinion

Granted Jamie and Stevie were a mighty hard act to follow our centres have been the perenial whipping boys on the silvertails forum. Poor old life of brian, parker, walker, suli week after week, game after game..

Sure they are a drop in quality compared to the A class we have become accustomed too but are they really guilty of letting us down

Every single one of them seems to have done more than enough rucks from our own end. They have been smashed. Dylan in particular makes that extra m or 2 each time

So we have to go back to blake green times to see walker and uate go gangbusters down that side , scince then zilch. Then green left.

Since then every centre has been smashed from pillar to post on and off the field. Ragdolled by kickchase and parker in particular has had to weather a storm of headhighs as he had targets on him , no centre should face week in, week out. Can the dude run, hardly ever see it, he is just a battering ram

So centres, left right, fat, skinny, gingers, moovers, groovers have all not just disappointed on here but disgusted and apparently its all there fault

Cust has played 6 weeks, he is a symptom but he is not to blame.

So in the last 3 years the only half able to get our centres moving was green . Since then our second rowers have essentially become chief tryscorers. Our centres as ruck men,

Our method is to go through the middle so we spend lots of plays chewing up easy metres. This is NOW our game so there are less chances for the backs , especially with marty and afb extending minutes

Tom turbo will be smashed by seasons end. He no longer gets the ball just coming into the line. Now he just gets balls thrown to him behind the line with nothing on and just told to create. This is not smart footy , he is targetted and will be heavily going into the finals as he is being isolated

Our game is not centre friendly, we constantly turn the ball under, or back to tom.he is often left with too little space. But mostly we are through the middle. For centres to get space they need early ball and for the half to run it, take them on , committ defenders early to get chinks out wide. We dont as our hookers run that part of our game .

When we decide to run and use the ball quite often its as last resort due indecisiveness and poor options which doesnt really qulafy as quality ball.

Our centres are solid, do a job and i think thats just the way it is. Bloody hell that jamie lyon was good thogh. He got stacks of early ball , who was on his side cherry or foz back then.

 

[BOZO]

Plenty of thought must have gone in that post . Great effort and Interesting reading !

 

[Woodsie]

Good post .... and yes we were spoilt by Jamie and Matai ....

It is however not just Manly that is redefining the role of centres ... most clubs unless they have a Mitchell are doing much the same ...

For example Suli ... in my old fashion opinion ... does not possess one skill that I would relate to a centre .... He is but a big body with power ... he appears to not have a creative bone in his body ... yet I have heard nothing but praise for him over the past couple of weeks because he ran hard a few times ... he is performing his role, it is just not one I prefer to see a centre doing ....

Your comment that they have become undeserving whipping boys is valid ... they all do a largely undefined job description to the best of their abilities .....

It is why I would prefer Parker in the centres and Suli on the wing ...Parker is a deadset centre whose first thought is how to provide an opportunity for his wingman .... Walker appears to be a mixture of the old and the new .... when in form he is in the top tier of the current crop ....

But then again my brain may be stuck in the 70's ....

 

[Bearfax]

just my opinion

Granted Jamie and Stevie were a mighty hard act to follow our centres have been the perenial whipping boys on the silvertails forum. Poor old life of brian, parker, walker, suli week after week, game after game..

Sure they are a drop in quality compared to the A class we have become accustomed too but are they really guilty of letting us down

Every single one of them seems to have done more than enough rucks from our own end. They have been smashed. Dylan in particular makes that extra m or 2 each time

So we have to go back to blake green times to see walker and uate go gangbusters down that side , scince then zilch. Then green left.

Since then every centre has been smashed from pillar to post on and off the field. Ragdolled by kickchase and parker in particular has had to weather a storm of headhighs as he had targets on him , no centre should face week in, week out. Can the dude run, hardly ever see it, he is just a battering ram

So centres, left right, fat, skinny, gingers, moovers, groovers have all not just disappointed on here but disgusted and apparently its all there fault

Cust has played 6 weeks, he is a symptom but he is not to blame.

So in the last 3 years the only half able to get our centres moving was green . Since then our second rowers have essentially become chief tryscorers. Our centres as ruck men,

Our method is to go through the middle so we spend lots of plays chewing up easy metres. This is NOW our game so there are less chances for the backs , especially with marty and afb extending minutes

Tom turbo will be smashed by seasons end. He no longer gets the ball just coming into the line. Now he just gets balls thrown to him behind the line with nothing on and just told to create. This is not smart footy , he is targetted and will be heavily going into the finals as he is being isolated

Our game is not centre friendly, we constantly turn the ball under, or back to tom.he is often left with too little space. But mostly we are through the middle. For centres to get space they need early ball and for the half to run it, take them on , committ defenders early to get chinks out wide. We dont as our hookers run that part of our game .

When we decide to run and use the ball quite often its as last resort due indecisiveness and poor options which doesnt really qulafy as quality ball.

Our centres are solid, do a job and i think thats just the way it is. Bloody hell that jamie lyon was good thogh. He got stacks of early ball , who was on his side cherry or foz back then.

A dream maybe. But by season's end 2020 I can see a backline of DCE, Schuster, Garrick, Ben T., Suli, Hopoate, Tom T. Yes a dream but could happen. Thoughts? Why Suli. He is improving all the time and has a lot of years to reach his peak. I like Walker but I think he's reached his peak. Parker, I still see as a backrower

 

[Kevinward777]

Good post .... and yes we were spoilt by Jamie and Matai ....

It is however not just Manly that is redefining the role of centres ... most clubs unless they have a Mitchell are doing much the same ...

For example Suli ... in my old fashion opinion ... does not possess one skill that I would relate to a centre .... He is but a big body with power ... he appears to not have a creative bone in his body ... yet I have heard nothing but praise for him over the past couple of weeks because he ran hard a few times ... he is performing his role, it is just not one I prefer to see a centre doing ....

Your comment that they have become undeserving whipping boys is valid ... they all do a largely undefined job description to the best of their abilities .....

It is why I would prefer Parker in the centres and Suli on the wing ...Parker is a deadset centre whose first thought is how to provide an opportunity for his wingman .... Walker appears to be a mixture of the old and the new .... when in form he is in the top tier of the current crop ....

But then again my brain may be stuck in the 70's ....

Chris Close, Crusher Cleal, Mal Meninga, Gene Miles (admittedly Gene had some real ball skills) Tony Iro, Kevin Iro, Paul McGregor etc... were all run hard first big bustling centres.

Moses is averaging around 150 metres a game over the past 8 games and getting his hands on the ball.

 

[Tragic Eagle]

The game has morphed and centers don't have the space anymore. One thing that hasn't changed is that ball players need to play direct to create space outside and they need ball runners who step of either foot to hit holes at pace. Both the ball player and runner need to anticipate and know which hole the ball runner will try to hit (outside or inside the defender). This comes form combination and we aren't seeing anything like it at present because of this cross field stuff. Even if you are not built like a tank if you hit a hole at full pace on the inside or outside of the defenders shoulders you wont be rag dolled but get it flat footed and you are a rattle doll for the monsters. We look best when we are playing hard direct power footy. Suli would be devastating hitting holes like Sirro in the attacking zone but we are not playing to our strengths often enough! .

 

[Woodsie]

Chris Close, Crusher Cleal, Mal Meninga, Gene Miles (admittedly Gene had some real ball skills) Tony Iro, Kevin Iro, Paul McGregor etc... were all run hard first big bustling centres.

All those players predominately played back in the day of inside/outside centre .. coming on to the ball at depth and pace ... and although big all had the ability and disposition to set up their outside man ... all were Internationals and a cut above the average ... and MacGregor was probably the most skillful centre with the ball of his time ... and none of them were ever asked to carry the ball in hit ups from their own 20m on a regular basis as part of their job description ....

Moses is averaging around 150 metres a game over the past 8 games and getting his hands on the ball.

... and yet in all those wonderful metres he has found the oportunity to pass the ball to his winger just once .... once ... he is doing a good job ... it is just not the job of a traditional centre ... which is afterall what the discussion is all about ...

 

[Woodsie]

The game has morphed and centers don't have the space anymore. One thing that hasn't changed is that ball players need to play direct to create space outside and they need ball runners who step of either foot to hit holes at pace. Both the ball player and runner need to anticipate and know which hole the ball runner will try to hit (outside or inside the defender). This comes form combination and we aren't seeing anything like it at present because of this cross field stuff. Even if you are not built like a tank if you hit a hole at full pace on the inside or outside of the defenders shoulders you wont be rag dolled but get it flat footed and you are a rattle doll for the monsters. We look best when we are playing hard direct power footy. Suli would be devastating hitting holes like Sirro in the attacking zone but we are not playing to our strengths often enough! .

Agree ... there are three ideal times to give an outside back the ball .... early, so he has time and space to create something himself ... or at the right moment as he hits a gap at pace .... or after you have created space to put him outside his defender ....

But the modern style of flat attack has rendered two of those options mainly academic .and historic ...

 

[Kevinward777]

All those players predominately played back in the day of inside/outside centre .. coming on to the ball at depth and pace ... and although big all had the ability and disposition to set up their outside man ... all were Internationals and a cut above the average ... and MacGregor was probably the most skillful centre with the ball of his time ... and none of them were ever asked to carry the ball in hit ups from their own 20m on a regular basis as part of their job description ....



... and yet in all those wonderful metres he has found the oportunity to pass the ball to his winger just once .... once ... he is doing a good job ... it is just not the job of a traditional centre ... which is afterall what the discussion is all about ...

Yeah... fair enough. I think Suli is at least thinking about the pass outside these days. Hopefully he keeps on improving.

 

[jbb/james]

Chris Close, Crusher Cleal, Mal Meninga, Gene Miles (admittedly Gene had some real ball skills) Tony Iro, Kevin Iro, Paul McGregor etc... were all run hard first big bustling centres.

Moses is averaging around 150 metres a game over the past 8 games and getting his hands on the ball.

Most of these guys were way different body shapes and looked built for second rows more so than than suli. Mal maybe , the rest were rangey and used that with great effect in offloading. Some of those guys belonged to the clean jersey brigade and were in the centres or wing due to there casual attitude toward defence. Devastating at times ,

Mcgegor aside who was a clas

Agree ... there are three ideal times to give an outside back the ball .... early, so he has time and space to create something himself ... or at the right moment as he hits a gap at pace .... or after you have created space to put him outside his defender ....

But the modern style of flat attack has rendered two of those options mainly academic .and historic ...

Not really. The storm are sitting on top and they regularly spread the ball inside there own half. This has resulted in what i see as the worlds most average centre will chambers having a decade of rep footy under his belt. But its a great metre gain and relatively low risk if you plan play for it.

Standing a little deeper giving the ball some air to get around compressed defence is a tactic and comes from the the thinky thinky tank on the run , by the halves generally watching the game. Cronk, keary, maloney and moylan seem pretty good at it. Im not advocating touch footy, just pointing out the decisions made by our halves impact our centres big time.
And what ST posters expect from the centres compared to the opportunities created by the inside men are unrealistic. Our centres are fed the scraps plain and simple

It may be dessies way and trents way, and tooves , it may be our halves style .

tom with the wingers have started to use the long ball to get outside kickchase with some success. Fullbacks doing it,

@Woodsie , think i tagged the wrong post bud but hey its out there

 

[Cioran]

I was very impressed with the Panthers last night. If there was a turnover or someone made a break the whole team quickly moved into positions that had obviously been preplanned to open up the field for their attacking players. When a winger dropped back to field an opposition kick, as he ran it out, the fullback dropped back behind him ready to catch an offload and move it quickly out along the backline. They use their backs very well and play a lot of sweeping movements. Their forwards play their part by running inside lines to keep the opposition from sliding. We seem to play a more grinding game in the centre third based around offloads from the hooker or front rowers. We we go wide everybody slides, running ourselves out of space. I hope that a Cust grows in confidence he will run more Fozzy type lines. Standing a little further to the side and drawing in the opposition to make room for the men outside him. Malone - like Cronk, Smith and Green - is the sort of onfield general that a team needs to make structures and game plans work. It is what Ox and Fozz used to do for us and part of the reason why Steve and Killer were as good as they were. The ever present threat of Brett opened up room for them as well. In the golden years the opposition were always trying to cover multiple strike players and those players worked so well together.

 

[HoldenV8]

Chris Close, Crusher Cleal, Mal Meninga, Gene Miles (admittedly Gene had some real ball skills) Tony Iro, Kevin Iro, Paul McGregor etc... were all run hard first big bustling centres.

Moses is averaging around 150 metres a game over the past 8 games and getting his hands on the ball.

Mengina was a weird one in a way considering all the accolades he gets for his playing career. Great attacking centre with his size, strength and pace, but if you looked at him purely from a defensive stand point he wasn't all that good. Because of his size his lateral movement was limited and as such he quite often got stood up in defence. Even forwards were known to stand him up and run around him. And to me at least, he was an arm grabber or he'd use a hip or shoulder charge. I saw players half a foot shorter and 20 kg lighter brush off his defence because he arm grabbed but didn't move his feet. I rarely saw him tackle opposition players around the legs or hit under the ribs with his shoulder in the way we see from someone like Jake.

Even in those games where he played in the back row, most of his game was hit ups or hiding out on the edges where he could play like a centre in attack. His tackle counts were often quite low even when in the forwards.

 

[jbb/james]

Mengina was a weird one in a way considering all the accolades he gets for his playing career. Great attacking centre with his size, strength and pace, but if you looked at him purely from a defensive stand point he wasn't all that good. Because of his size his lateral movement was limited and as such he quite often got stood up in defence. Even forwards were known to stand him up and run around him. And to me at least, he was an arm grabber or he'd use a hip or shoulder charge. I saw players half a foot shorter and 20 kg lighter brush off his defence because he arm grabbed but didn't move his feet. I rarely saw him tackle opposition players around the legs or hit under the ribs with his shoulder in the way we see from someone like Jake.

Even in those games where he played in the back row, most of his game was hit ups or hiding out on the edges where he could play like a centre in attack. His tackle counts were often quite low even when in the forwards.

Meninga was a myth that turned up a few times a year. One of the original clean jersey brigade his career blossomed as much through interstate politics. Dont get he wrong he could be devastating and became a very good captain but his game time was very T rex like.

Of the big centres mentioned only mal has the similar body shape as moses, the rest more rangey and natural passes.

I worked in a hotel that housed the qld team origin time in the eighties. Mal was obviously a big part of that . A few of the boys wrapped up one of my mates in linnen and locked him in a closet one afternoon. Took me an hour to find him. Lucky for him we travelled home together. Mal was a big oart of that . These days it would be an outrage , in the end it was funny and we all got gear and beer out of it

 

[Woodsie]

Mengina was a weird one in a way considering all the accolades he gets for his playing career. Great attacking centre with his size, strength and pace, but if you looked at him purely from a defensive stand point he wasn't all that good. Because of his size his lateral movement was limited and as such he quite often got stood up in defence. Even forwards were known to stand him up and run around him. And to me at least, he was an arm grabber or he'd use a hip or shoulder charge. I saw players half a foot shorter and 20 kg lighter brush off his defence because he arm grabbed but didn't move his feet. I rarely saw him tackle opposition players around the legs or hit under the ribs with his shoulder in the way we see from someone like Jake.

Even in those games where he played in the back row, most of his game was hit ups or hiding out on the edges where he could play like a centre in attack. His tackle counts were often quite low even when in the forwards.

Ah ... the good old days when the backline was man on man in defence and attack ... now it is man on 3 men and as boring as watching your own undies in the dryer ...

 

[HoldenV8]

Ah ... the good old days when the backline was man on man in defence and attack ... now it is man on 3 men and as boring as watching your own undies in the dryer ...

And its been that way since defence moved to centre a side back in I think....1993 or 1994?

 

[Woodsie]

Breaking News .....

Splendour Organisers Urge Festivalgoers To Please Stop Culturally Appropriating Steve Matai

CLANCY OVERELL | Editor | CONTACT

It’s no secret that at festivals, people can accidentally be insensitive with their outfit choices, and appropriate other cultures.

When it comes to the iconic Splendour In The Grass Music festival, the excitement of dressing up with your friends and entering a magical arts fair can often result in some distasteful outfits, especially if you are a white millennial who doesn’t really give a **** about the importance that other cultures put behind ceremony and dress.

There are a lot of misconceptions about cultural appropriation. It is not as simple as borrowing items from another culture. Issues arise when a dominant group picks and chooses parts of a minority culture to participate in, as they don’t ever face the same level of discrimination as minorities.

In years gone by the American Indian has been a dominant theme in electronic dance festivals, as munted roid boys rock the native head dress in the mosh pit of a Flight Facilities gig.

Since then, the flippant cultural appropriation of kimonos, sarees and Hawaiian shirts have all drawn criticism from Buzzfeed listicle writers.

This year is now different, but like all festival outfits, the trend has changed when it comes to borrowing and exploiting the traditional dress of minority groups.

As was the case at both Glastonbury and Coachella, this year has seen a distressing trend in young women adulterating the ancient culture of the Manly Sea Eagles.

The prominence of white girls with twin-braid hairstyles at this year’s Splendour In The Grass has resulted in organisers sending out an official email to tickeholders, requesting that all partygoers do their best to enjoy the weekend without cultural appropriating NRL footballer Steve Matai.

Manly Sea Eagles Coach Des Hasler has come out strong in his condemnations of the new trend.

“My premiership-winning 230-game NRL centre is not your costume” said Hasler.

 

[Simonmyers11]

just my opinion

Granted Jamie and Stevie were a mighty hard act to follow our centres have been the perenial whipping boys on the silvertails forum. Poor old life of brian, parker, walker, suli week after week, game after game..

Sure they are a drop in quality compared to the A class we have become accustomed too but are they really guilty of letting us down

Every single one of them seems to have done more than enough rucks from our own end. They have been smashed. Dylan in particular makes that extra m or 2 each time

So we have to go back to blake green times to see walker and uate go gangbusters down that side , scince then zilch. Then green left.

Since then every centre has been smashed from pillar to post on and off the field. Ragdolled by kickchase and parker in particular has had to weather a storm of headhighs as he had targets on him , no centre should face week in, week out. Can the dude run, hardly ever see it, he is just a battering ram

So centres, left right, fat, skinny, gingers, moovers, groovers have all not just disappointed on here but disgusted and apparently its all there fault

Cust has played 6 weeks, he is a symptom but he is not to blame.

So in the last 3 years the only half able to get our centres moving was green . Since then our second rowers have essentially become chief tryscorers. Our centres as ruck men,

Our method is to go through the middle so we spend lots of plays chewing up easy metres. This is NOW our game so there are less chances for the backs , especially with marty and afb extending minutes

Tom turbo will be smashed by seasons end. He no longer gets the ball just coming into the line. Now he just gets balls thrown to him behind the line with nothing on and just told to create. This is not smart footy , he is targetted and will be heavily going into the finals as he is being isolated

Our game is not centre friendly, we constantly turn the ball under, or back to tom.he is often left with too little space. But mostly we are through the middle. For centres to get space they need early ball and for the half to run it, take them on , committ defenders early to get chinks out wide. We dont as our hookers run that part of our game .

When we decide to run and use the ball quite often its as last resort due indecisiveness and poor options which doesnt really qulafy as quality ball.

Our centres are solid, do a job and i think thats just the way it is. Bloody hell that jamie lyon was good thogh. He got stacks of early ball , who was on his side cherry or foz back then.

Lyons side was lethal. Usually ball was distributed by glen stewert on to Daley then good early ball to lyon. Snake often also linked in as well.

Foz was on the left with matai