Big name signings and Manly

[Waz13]

Li

Agree in a decent proven halfback that can’t put a cross field kick & a kick in goal to get a repeated set.

like Ben Hunt - who’s now been punted frm the halves lol.

 

[Stevo]

Without doint the research and the math i'd say that a third of the cap is taken up by 3 players. DCE and the Turbos. Then i reckon another third of the cap is taken up by maybe 5-6 players. Marty, AFB, Walker, Sirro, Suli, and Maybe Taufua. Then i reckon the last 3rd of the cap is taken up by the rest.

If you consider probably our top 6 paid players are

DCE
Turbo
Jurbo
Marty
AFB
Walker

Not many teams have a better top 6 than that? The rest of the cap is probably just managed better.

 

[QueefRichards]

Mate, I hate to say it cause Jakey is a machine in defense, but you're right.

Hes not worth the money the way he's being used

 

[Woodsie]

Hi all, I have a question that I am sure has been answered before, or that may be so obvious it does not need to be asked, but... looking at other clubs and their signing announcements over the last say, 5 years, most clubs (not all) will regularly announce noteable signings that shift the landscape of then entire club.

From what I've seen, Manly do not often nab 'big signings'. Now, is there a reason for this? Is it that our money is tied up in the likes of Chez, the Turbos etc? Is it that we had a cap restriction until recently? Is it that big name players have no interest in playing for Manly or living on the Northern Beaches?

Again, apologies if this is a stupid question but I would be keen to get the thoughts of Manly fans more in the know than I.

Thank you!
Bomb Voyage

Good post and valid point

Simply put .... I think over the past decade of dominance .. our big signings and big money has been spent on keeping the superstars we had ... eg DCE, Brett & Gifty, Jamie Lyon, Matai, .. bugger it .. the whole 2008 and 2011 squads ... and more recently the Turbos, AFB, Marty, etc ... and investing in the future with Ben Turbo, Schuster and young Hoppa ....

The only time I can think of when we had a desperate need to get a big money player was 3 years ago .. but we got GreenTurded and hit with 3 years of reduced cap and lost Pearce ...

Personally I think we will/are in the market for a serious raw meat eating back rower .... and with DCE approaching his end of career ... we will be watching the #7 market with great interest ...

 

[Harmless27]

Are you serious?

Is everyone actually accessing the memory part of their brains and clinking it in to gear?

Let's have a quick think about this:
1. We have amazing internal talent which we rely on. No denying that.... we pay good money, but they are bloody good players, and rthe right type of people representing our club
2. jake being OVER paid? COME OFF IT. I would rather pay a hard working, talented player who is a GOOD person and club rep $900k, than some muppet who hits his mrs and gets away with it.
3. jamie Lyon.
4. Matt Orford.
5. Marty Tapau.
6. Brent Kite
7. Dylan Walker (hurts me to type that)
8. The FAILED experiment of Nate Myles
9. Blake Green (he was/is EXCELLENT. The one that got away for me)
10. DES HASLER (as a coach of course, not a player)

They are all top level international players or coaches, added to an existing team to bring depth and quality and leadership. They all did that (except for Myles)

That is an international quality signing every 3 years from my reckoning?

Why on earth would we need to buy more and more big name players? It is just an admission of poor quality player development and overall recruiting.

I LOVE the way we don't need to sign big name players.... we are better than those fools who try and purchase victory

 

[simon64]

We haven't been able to develop or identify talent for a long time now. Look at the list

B. Stewart......debuted for Manly
G. Stewart.....debuted for Manly
S. Matai...debuted for Manly.
D. Williams.....debuted for Manly
C. Lyons....debuted for Norths but let's face it, was a Manly legend.
G. Toovey....Manly junior
A Watmough....Manly junior
M. Ballin......debuted for Manly
J. King....Manly junior
D. Cherry-Evans.....debuted for Manly
K. Foran....debuted for Manly

Go back further.....O. Cunningham, N. Kosef, D. Gartner, M. Ridge, D. Moore, etc etc etc.

We need to identify talent and bring them to the club. We used to do it so well.

 

[Mataiforever]

well Jake, Tom and DCE will take up 3.25 million next year pretty sure. Thats a lot. Walker will be on less, Wasnt he on 650k? surely AFB on more soon, I think somewhere said AFB was on 550k and Marty 750k. Nase got the upgrade which meant he wouldve been 400-450+ but pretty sure we get Cap relief for him for now. Suli’s new deal is 550k which is overs too.
The problem is all our guns are slightly on overs of 100k-200k which tends to add up.
Heres my valuations of what I’d give them compared to what theyre supposedly on
Tom 1.1m - fair, although if he doesnt overcome his injury woes in next couple years there will be some serious concerns
DCE 1.25m - 1m
Jake 900k - 750k-800k max
Marty 700/750k - 650kish
AFB 550k - would be giving him 750k+
Dylan 650k - pretty sure they said his new contract is a steep drop from the indiscretions so whats that around 400k-450k?
Suli 550k - 400-450k

I think Garrick is on cheap chips which is a steal, he did get an upgrade tho so surely he’d be around 300k now. Our recruitment needs to be storm-like - pick really good reserve graders who can become great first graders i.e. Olam was a gun pick up.

Gebbie, Hynes etc would be nice pick ups, cut elliott, boyle, levi and a few others. Start easing in Schuster and Hoppa. We signed Morgan Harper who will be great backs depth next year.

Think our last proper marquee signing was Jamie Lyon from St Helens.

 

[Disco]

I know we are short of cash but some of the buys - Croker, Cust, Levi, Metcalf, Gosiewski have been truly terrible.

I guess sometimes other people's trash is well just trash.

Cherry picking here to make a point.

Firstly, Cust came through with us so not a signing.

Secondly Levi was bought after the Fainu situation, the cupboard was bare and we had to take what we could get.

Croker and Jetski were brought in as cheap squad players and Metcalf a youngster with potential.

Sure none have broken out but not all clubs have 100% strike and many on here were raving about Croker and Jetski just weeks ago.

Now the signings you chose to exclude
Taupau
Walker
AFB
Suli
Thompson
Sirronen
Garrick
Keppie

Did they not fit your narrative?

 

[Disco]

We haven't been able to develop or identify talent for a long time now. Look at the list

B. Stewart......debuted for Manly
G. Stewart.....debuted for Manly
S. Matai...debuted for Manly.
D. Williams.....debuted for Manly
C. Lyons....debuted for Norths but let's face it, was a Manly legend.
G. Toovey....Manly junior
A Watmough....Manly junior
M. Ballin......debuted for Manly
J. King....Manly junior
D. Cherry-Evans.....debuted for Manly
K. Foran....debuted for Manly

Go back further.....O. Cunningham, N. Kosef, D. Gartner, M. Ridge, D. Moore, etc etc etc.

We need to identify talent and bring them to the club. We used to do it so well.

For a long time?

One of the players mentioned is our current captain?

If we are talking Manly juniors or players that debuted here we have

DCE
Turbo
Jake
Taufua
AFB
Garrick
Parker
Fainu

Who have all played some level of rep footy plus Paseka, Wadell and Keppie who you would argue are part of our full strength 17

 

[manly al]

well Jake, Tom and DCE will take up 3.25 million next year pretty sure. Thats a lot. Walker will be on less, Wasnt he on 650k? surely AFB on more soon, I think somewhere said AFB was on 550k and Marty 750k. Nase got the upgrade which meant he wouldve been 400-450+ but pretty sure we get Cap relief for him for now. Suli’s new deal is 550k which is overs too.
The problem is all our guns are slightly on overs of 100k-200k which tends to add up.
Heres my valuations of what I’d give them compared to what theyre supposedly on
Tom 1.1m - fair, although if he doesnt overcome his injury woes in next couple years there will be some serious concerns
DCE 1.25m - 1m
Jake 900k - 750k-800k max
Marty 700/750k - 650kish
AFB 550k - would be giving him 750k+
Dylan 650k - pretty sure they said his new contract is a steep drop from the indiscretions so whats that around 400k-450k?
Suli 550k - 400-450k

I think Garrick is on cheap chips which is a steal, he did get an upgrade tho so surely he’d be around 300k now. Our recruitment needs to be storm-like - pick really good reserve graders who can become great first graders i.e. Olam was a gun pick up.

Gebbie, Hynes etc would be nice pick ups, cut elliott, boyle, levi and a few others. Start easing in Schuster and Hoppa. We signed Morgan Harper who will be great backs depth next year.

Think our last proper marquee signing was Jamie Lyon from St Helens.

Marquee player allowance still operating ? Probably on the money there with D C E and Marty . Jake and Turbo earn their value surely Thought that Suli :s upgrade contract was around the 450 k but have seen the 550 k reference as well . Seems about right with Walker A F B with an upgrade of some description probable . Siro and Thommo probably on similar money . Then to accommodate Schuster and young Hoppa soon . Keppie , Hamole , and Paseka . Boyle Waddell , Jetski , Croker and Cust on the lower end scale no doubt at present . Parker on 250 k or so Jorge and Fainu . ? Premiership roster at full strength , operative word being full strength available side .

 

[Chip and Chase]

I look at the turbos as a package deal. Jake might be on slight overs but tommy on unders. Anyway jake is worth the coin. 80minute middle forward who is a rock in defence. Des uses him a little differently than I would prefer, too much link work not enough running and off loading.

 

[globaleagle]

Cherry picking here to make a point.

Firstly, Cust came through with us so not a signing.

Secondly Levi was bought after the Fainu situation, the cupboard was bare and we had to take what we could get.

Croker and Jetski were brought in as cheap squad players and Metcalf a youngster with potential.

Sure none have broken out but not all clubs have 100% strike and many on here were raving about Croker and Jetski just weeks ago.

Now the signings you chose to exclude
Taupau
Walker
AFB
Suli
Thompson
Sirronen
Garrick
Keppie

Did they not fit your narrative?

Mate, sometimes trolls are just trolls.

 

[Nordburg]

Cherry picking here to make a point.

Firstly, Cust came through with us so not a signing.

Secondly Levi was bought after the Fainu situation, the cupboard was bare and we had to take what we could get.

Croker and Jetski were brought in as cheap squad players and Metcalf a youngster with potential.

Sure none have broken out but not all clubs have 100% strike and many on here were raving about Croker and Jetski just weeks ago.

Now the signings you chose to exclude
Taupau
Walker
AFB
Suli
Thompson
Sirronen
Garrick
Keppie

Did they not fit your narrative?

The Levi signing,whilst necessary given the circumstances,it also showed a lack of creativity by the club.Why didn’t anyone think of doing what the Tigers did and chase Harry Grant?Bellamy may of knocked it on the head but there would of been no harm in asking and it would of shown they were thinking outside the square.Levi was struggling at the Knights and they weren’t keen on him,not sure what anyone thought he’d do at Manly

 

[Wombat64]

What about Nate Myles? He was a big money signing and also BIG waste of money. One of the of worst big name buys to have worn our jersey.

 

[Disco]

The Levi signing,whilst necessary given the circumstances,it also showed a lack of creativity by the club.Why didn’t anyone think of doing what the Tigers did and chase Harry Grant?Bellamy may of knocked it on the head but there would of been no harm in asking and it would of shown they were thinking outside the square.Levi was struggling at the Knights and they weren’t keen on him,not sure what anyone thought he’d do at Manly

Yes true but no way they send Grant to us.

That said, if Smith goes around again and Grant becomes a free agent and if Fainu is convicted we should chase Grant hard.

Not a sure thing that he is the Tigers

 

[Little Grubber Kick]

Agree in a decent proven halfback that can’t put a cross field kick & a kick in goal to get a repeated set.

'Proven' would be about 600k
'Decent Proven' add 200k
'Decent Proven Deluxe' (cross field kick capable) add another 200k
'Decent Proven Super Deluxe' (repeat set capable) add another 200k

Most would probably be a little pissed if they'd thought they'd bought a top of the range car only to find it's the base model with a few extras......

 

[Nordburg]

Yes true but no way they send Grant to us.

That said, if Smith goes around again and Grant becomes a free agent and if Fainu is convicted we should chase Grant hard.

Not a sure thing that he is the Tigers

Can’t imagine the Storm letting him go but no idea what they do other than Smith to 7.If Storm did release him,you’d expect the Tigers to offer him something and he’d feel obliged to stay

 

[Jacinta Martin]

Marquee player allowance still operating ? Probably on the money there with D C E and Marty . Jake and Turbo earn their value surely Thought that Suli :s upgrade contract was around the 450 k but have seen the 550 k reference as well . Seems about right with Walker A F B with an upgrade of some description probable . Siro and Thommo probably on similar money . Then to accommodate Schuster and young Hoppa soon . Keppie , Hamole , and Paseka . Boyle Waddell , Jetski , Croker and Cust on the lower end scale no doubt at present . Parker on 250 k or so Jorge and Fainu . ? Premiership roster at full strength , operative word being full strength available side .

I think it's fair to say that some players are on overs, some are on unders and some are just right and performance doesn't always match their $$$'s.
No one really knows what every player gets because it's not disclosed.
I think we all might be surprised about how much certain players are on. I wouldn't be surprised if say Keppie was on way less than Paseka, Parker on way less than Suli and those two are proving they are equally as good if not better at times.
Money paid doesn't always equal value. Lane is a good example. He was worth keeping and didn't get huge dollars at Eels. I rated him above Boyle, Sipley and Paseka.
I for one would love to know what all the players are on. I guess we will never really know.

 

[manly al]

I think it's fair to say that some players are on overs, some are on unders and some are just right and performance doesn't always match their $$$'s.
No one really knows what every player gets because it's not disclosed.
I think we all might be surprised about how much certain players are on. I wouldn't be surprised if say Keppie was on way less than Paseka, Parker on way less than Suli and those two are proving they are equally as good if not better at times.
Money paid doesn't always equal value. Lane is a good example. He was worth keeping and didn't get huge dollars at Eels. I rated him above Boyle, Sipley and Paseka.
I for one would love to know what all the players are on. I guess we will never really know.

Guess that is where consistency plays such an important part in getting solid value of of the mid and higher range players in particular . Tom and Jake always seem to produce , A F B and Walker are getting that way , maybe even Parker and Garrick , some hope with Suli . D C E seems to have his good and not so good seasons on the regular consistency performance metric , Matty has been a bit off the pace also in recent times it seems . Also need Thommo and Siro on a regular basis but probably not this season so far also . Lane was offered some decent money to stay [ think in the 270 k range and not bad money based on his rating at that stage . Think that the Eels offer was in excess of 300 k and to be fair looks like he has warranted that sort of money since he joined them . If not for Greenberg :s witch hunt against Manly a few seasons ago and reduced cap and penalty , maybe could have retained him but do manage quite well enough without him when the current Manly pack and subs are fully fit and switched on

 

[nightster]

Guess that is where consistency plays such an important part in getting solid value of of the mid and higher range players in particular . Tom and Jake always seem to produce , A F B and Walker are getting that way , maybe even Parker and Garrick , some hope with Suli . D C E seems to have his good and not so good seasons on the regular consistency performance metric , Matty has been a bit off the pace also in recent times it seems . Also need Thommo and Siro on a regular basis but probably not this season so far also . Lane was offered some decent money to stay [ think in the 270 k range and not bad money based on his rating at that stage . Think that the Eels offer was in excess of 300 k and to be fair looks like he has warranted that sort of money since he joined them . If not for Greenberg :s witch hunt against Manly a few seasons ago and reduced cap and penalty , maybe could have retained him but do manage quite well enough without him when the current Manly pack and subs are fully fit and switched on

Lane was extremely pissed off with how Jackson Hastings was treated ... extremely pissed off!