better than Foran?

[Technical Coach]

Foran was never mentioned on his own in the past 5 seasons. It was always 'Kieran Foran AND Cherry Evans - the best HALVES PAIRING in the game.'

Keiran also performed at a high level before DCE was in the squad and helped blood DCE during his debut season.

 

[Ryan]

My only hope is that he is as negative and disruptive at The Eels as he was here the past few years. Given a few poor seasons, I see that happening.

Kid was born with a silver spoon in his mouth, and considered himself bigger than our club and culture.

Glad he is gone. His replacement at least wants to be here.

 

[Technical Coach]

My only hope is that he is as negative and disruptive at The Eels as he was here the past few years. Given a few poor seasons, I see that happening.

Kid was born with a silver spoon in his mouth, and considered himself bigger than our club and culture.

Glad he is gone. His replacement at least wants to be here.

The positive for Manly releasing Foran is that he looks riddled with injuries and starting to show wear and tear like a 32/33 year old already, so it might be a blessing in disguise.

 

[Rex]

The positive for Manly releasing Foran is that he looks riddled with injuries and starting to show wear and tear like a 32/33 year old already, so it might be a blessing in disguise.

Some ill-advised comments Foran made encouraged a view that he wasn't interested in making an effort in 2015 and late 2014. Another plausible explanation for his drop in form is injury. And if those injuries are chronic, then we may have indeed dodged a bullet.

 

[Technical Coach]

Some ill-advised comments Foran made encouraged a view that he wasn't interested in making an effort in 2015 and late 2014. Another plausible explanation for his drop in form is injury. And if those injuries are chronic, then we may have indeed dodged a bullet.

Easier to stay motivated or bring yourself out of the child like tantrums when you are fit, our winning percentage went up when Foran was fresh and wanting to finish the season on a good note.

 

[Ryan]

Our pack in 2011 was not the best far from it and showing it's age already, 2013 we played beyond ourselves to get into the GF.

Our back-line saved our asses beyond belief for way too long.

Yep, agree. Hopefully Walker also doesn't:

1. Need clearing of the air meetings with Barrett;
2. Wake up and mot know if he wants to be here;
3. Demand his brother be signed;
4. Brag about signing elsewhere publicly;
5. Have shocking form while his contract is negotiated;
6. Have a girlfriend that claims Karma when he signs elsewhere;
7. Openly suggest an opposition coach can take his game to the next level (showing complete disrespect to his current one);
8. Procrastinate his decision through a period of unrest which may have harmed his club;
9. Lie to club and fans about when commitment to the opposition was made whole bragging in public the opposite.

etc, etc, etc .

The guys a ****stain. Good riddance. We needed to cut the cancer away and we did. Thank ****.

 

[Rex]

Easier to stay motivated or bring yourself out of the child like tantrums when you are fit, our winning percentage went up when Foran was fresh and wanting to finish the season on a good note.

Our winning percentage went up when our players (a whole bunch of them) returned from injury around the same time.

 

[Technical Coach]

Yep, agree. Hopefully Walker also doesn't:

1. Need clearing of the air meetings with Barrett;
2. Wake up and mot know if he wants to be here;
3. Demand his brother be signed;
4. Brag about signing elsewhere publicly;
5. Have shocking form while his contract is negotiated;
6. Have a girlfriend that claims Karma when he signs elsewhere;
7. Openly suggest an opposition coach can take his game to the next level (showing complete disrespect to his current one);
8. Procrastinate his decision through a period of unrest which may have harmed his club;
9. Lie to club and fans about when commitment to the opposition was made whole bragging in public the opposite.

etc, etc, etc .

The guys a ****stain. Good riddance. We needed to cut the cancer away and we did. Thank ****.

Totally agree with the above for the most part and i've also mentioned during his contract negotiations prior to the last one (when he "almost" went to the Dogs) "if he is not sure who to sign with it means he already doesn't have his heart at his current place and should probably leave"

I hope you feel the same way about current and past senior players at the club who are as much to blame with creating such a poor attitude----you can usually tell what people are really like by the company they keep hint hint.

 

[JenEagle]

From the outside looking in Foran has been one of the most divisive players ever to play for this club. Usually a leopard doesn't change its spots so wait for a couple of tough years at Parra before he leaves for the dogs

 

[Alby]

That Souths game at the SCG in '14 really affected Foran, I'd say. He realized then Manly didn't have the pack to compete - and not long after, he publicly rehashed the 'Gifty drama' as an excuse for potentially not resigning with the club.

 

[Ryan]

Do you know how much of DCE's pay is included in the cap?

DCE's contract would actually be one of the lower one's on our roster. You need to consider the following. Assume DCE is on 1.1 million (that's a guess) inclusive.

X Kelly has him listed as our marquee player. Therefore, 600k of DCE's contract comes off the cap hit. Yes, he still gets paid, but it doesn't affect our team cap wise.
X He is one, along with (Stewart, Matai & Lyon) eligible for the Long Serving Player Allowance of $300k per team, so lets assume he received 25% of it to be fair (I'm betting he'd get more), that's another $75k off his contract.
X There was an article saying that DCE picked up a vehicle recently (find it yourself, I'm too lazy), and that's $20k that can be included in his contract (but not in the cap)
X 3rd party agreements in his contract not listed. Assume in his 1.1 mill salary, only $50k per year was made up of 3rd party (just to be conservative - I'd bet there is much more in the 1.1 amount)
X A lesser known, is that I'm betting the club has set up an agreement with Fox for DCE to do a media Apprenteship. This can be part of his contract (included in the 1.1 mill), but is not included in the cap (and is unlimited) - so if the deal is $200k per year for example, that would come off the cap hit (but lets NOT include this).

I'll be conservative though, and only include:-
Assume salary if 1.1 mill per
1. Marquee player Allowance
2. Long Serving Player Allowance
3. Car Allowance
4. $50k 3rd Party Allowance

His cap hit would be $355k.

That's how the NRL keeps its marquee players like Thurston, Inglis and co. in the game. I'd bet his 3rd party agreements are much greater. I bet there is a Fox Sports deal built in there somewhere.

I actually think his real cap hit would be MUCH lower.

Also, all of the above is why marquee player contracts take so long to produce, sign and agree. There is heaps of parties, and heaps involved.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

For what it’s worth, I agree that great players can have that effect on their club. It doesn’t mean they will win the comp, but the qualities which all great players tend to share – the striving for excellence, the commitment to winning, the ultra-competitive spirit - these things do rub off on the other players.

It is well established that the mental side of the game is significant. When you get a top shelf recruit, it helps the other players to believe things are possible, which has to be motivating.

Best recent example is SBW to Rorters, the joint was buzzing when he arrived and it was obvious they would go from run of the mill to serious contenders in one fell swoop (which they did).

I am a bit concerned that Foran will have a big motivating effect on the Eels this year, I prefer it when they are duds.

 

[Rex]

Great players do have an impact on the players around them, and on the team. SBW, Burgess, Thurston have all done this, and won premierships. And teams need a hell of a lot to go right (including injuries) to win a premiership. Equating team success with an individual player's greatness is simplistic thinking.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

True, but most 'great' players do in fact win premierships. All the immortals, for example.
Steve Rogers is one exception I can think of, who of course spent most of his career with a non-winning team, but I think even the Sharks did make a couple of grand finals when they had him, which they don't usually do.

 

[Rex]

True, but most 'great' players do in fact win premierships. All the immortals, for example.
Steve Rogers is one exception I can think of, who of course spent most of his career with a non-winning team, but I think even the Sharks did make a couple of grand finals when they had him, which they don't usually do.

The turning point when players become recognised as "great" is usually when they win premierships. It's a mental construct. "They must be great because they won the big one". Mostly it is not the premiership favourites that win the big one. But after they've won they are often looked back on as unbeatable and deserved winners.

Like Sonny Bill in 2013. The refs make some shocking calls. Wolfman has a shocker. Some tackles missed that should have been made. And he turns from over-hyped Moneybill into an unbeatable superstar.

 

[Alby]

The turning point when players become recognised as "great" is usually when they win premierships. It's a mental construct. "They must be great because they won the big one". Mostly it is not the premiership favourites that win the big one. But after they've won they are often looked back on as unbeatable and deserved winners.

Like Sonny Bill in 2013. The refs make some shocking calls. Wolfman has a shocker. Some tackles missed that should have been made. And he turns from over-hyped Moneybill into an unbeatable superstar.

As I recall SBW had a pretty bad first half, but nobody remembers that, after he made that one big run.

 

[Technical Coach]

The turning point when players become recognised as "great" is usually when they win premierships. It's a mental construct. "They must be great because they won the big one". Mostly it is not the premiership favourites that win the big one. But after they've won they are often looked back on as unbeatable and deserved winners.

Like Sonny Bill in 2013. The refs make some shocking calls. Wolfman has a shocker. Some tackles missed that should have been made. And he turns from over-hyped Moneybill into an unbeatable superstar.

The turning point for me is not really about premierships (it is just that great players tend to win premierships and is "one" indicator) my turning point is---- has this player changed the way the game has been played, elevated performance, along with consistency of brilliance.

Way too many players are labelled a great...

 

[midsteyne]

Players evolve thru the era,s was Dally M better or worse than Bozo for instance,was Langlans better or worse than Snake,just examples but i think new players learn from what older player skills were,didnt Johns pass on skill set to DCE and Foran,i bet Walker learns i bit from Manlys past legends.this thread is just going in circles,Foran dont live here anymore🙂

 

[Technical Coach]

Players evolve thru the era,s was Dally M better or worse than Bozo for instance,was Langlans better or worse than Snake,just examples but i think new players learn from what older player skills were,didnt Johns pass on skill set to DCE and Foran,i bet Walker learns i bit from Manlys past legends.this thread is just going in circles,Foran dont live here anymore🙂

It's not about being a better player it's just that there is less to learn from Thurston compared to the likes of Johns, Stuart or Cam Smith etc etc.

 

[midsteyne]

the whole game is based on players being better than others,in my mind Fulton was the greatest player to pull on a boot,he changed the way the game was played but the game has changed and whatever happens the new generation of professionals will keep getting better,thurston is one of those that will change the way it is played,however this thread is about walker being better than foran,who gives a f***